T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

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T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:03 pm

I'm posting anonymously because there are a number of people who know who I am and I'd rather them not know my grades.

I have a 3.2 and am on a journal at a lower T14 and - to no surprise - I am without a job for the summer. I worked at a firm last summer and have had interviews with big law, mid law, and some oil companies for this summer, and as of now none have worked out (GPA seems to be the big killer for the firms and my lack of a science or engineering degree hurts my chances at oil companies).

Anyways, what are some of the best options for post law school (besides the usual killself)?

I was thinking b-school because I do not have too much debt from school because of scholarships in both undergrad and law school (hence the reason why I did not drop out after 1L year - well, that and because I had a 1L job). It would also put me in good contention for a consulting job at a big 4 auditing firm (corporate governance and securities regulation).

Is b-school a better option than trying to go solo or starting a small firm with some fellow unemployed classmates?

The only other thing I could think of was going back to undergrad to get enough science/engineering hours to take the patent bar.

maf70
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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby maf70 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:10 pm

SILLY RABBIT, TEXAS ISN'T A T14.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm posting anonymously because there are a number of people who know who I am and I'd rather them not know my grades.

I have a 3.2 and am on a journal at a lower T14 and - to no surprise - I am without a job for the summer. I worked at a firm last summer and have had interviews with big law, mid law, and some oil companies for this summer, and as of now none have worked out (GPA seems to be the big killer for the firms and my lack of a science or engineering degree hurts my chances at oil companies).

Anyways, what are some of the best options for post law school (besides the usual killself)?

I was thinking b-school because I do not have too much debt from school because of scholarships in both undergrad and law school (hence the reason why I did not drop out after 1L year - well, that and because I had a 1L job). It would also put me in good contention for a consulting job at a big 4 auditing firm (corporate governance and securities regulation).

Is b-school a better option than trying to go solo or starting a small firm with some fellow unemployed classmates?

The only other thing I could think of was going back to undergrad to get enough science/engineering hours to take the patent bar.


Yeah oil and gas is big on the science background.

If you cannot get the private practice/federal government you want, go for state/city government. There are generally a decent array of positions and they frequently don't even ask what your gpa is. I'm currently interning at in a department dealing with real estate (that had applications from even CA and IL, let alone LA) and my boss didn't ask and I worked somewhere last semester and no one asked there either.

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Cade McNown
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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby Cade McNown » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:20 pm

maf70 wrote:SILLY RABBIT, TEXAS ISN'T A T14.


Yes, by definition of t14, it is. Texas isn't a T13. Please snark appropriately.

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bk1
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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyways, what are some of the best options for post law school (besides the usual killself)?


Best option for what? Making it rain? Being generally employed? Not living in a cardboard box? What?

You have minimal debt, hustle your ass off and take a job at a smaller firm. Unless for some idiotic reason you went to law school to be rich and not to be a lawyer then you should probably killself (or alternatively keep accumulating letters after your name in the hopes that you will find gold).

/thread

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby kblueboi » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:27 pm

sorry to go off on a tangent, but as a OL i have no advice. would you mind saying where a 3.2 puts you in your class? top 50%?

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introversional
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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby introversional » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:29 pm

maf70 wrote:SILLY RABBIT, TEXAS ISN'T A T14.


They're not sweet 16 either. :)

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:33 pm

kblueboi wrote:sorry to go off on a tangent, but as a OL i have no advice. would you mind saying where a 3.2 puts you in your class? top 50%?


This is the T14 we are talking about. A 3.2 is bottom half for certain.

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby patrickd139 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:36 pm

introversional wrote:
maf70 wrote:SILLY RABBIT, TEXAS ISN'T A T14.


They're not sweet 16 either. :)

I want to hate you, but a) I'm now numb to Texas basketball and b) your 'tar is friggin' sweet.

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby kblueboi » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:37 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
kblueboi wrote:sorry to go off on a tangent, but as a OL i have no advice. would you mind saying where a 3.2 puts you in your class? top 50%?


This is the T14 we are talking about. A 3.2 is bottom half for certain.


do you mean that T14's have harder curves?

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:37 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
kblueboi wrote:sorry to go off on a tangent, but as a OL i have no advice. would you mind saying where a 3.2 puts you in your class? top 50%?


This is the T14 we are talking about. A 3.2 is bottom half for certain.


Wikipedia says 3.2 is above median at GULC (and possibly Michigan as well), but generally yes because most of them seem to curve to 3.3 (UT also curves to 3.3).

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:39 pm

introversional wrote:
maf70 wrote:SILLY RABBIT, TEXAS ISN'T A T14.


They're not sweet 16 either. :)


As an Arizona alum this makes me very happy (even though I'm attending UT in the fall).

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby patrickd139 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
introversional wrote:
maf70 wrote:SILLY RABBIT, TEXAS ISN'T A T14.


They're not sweet 16 either. :)


As an Arizona alum this makes me very happy (even though I'm attending UT in the fall).

You, I can hate. :evil:

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:40 pm

kblueboi wrote:sorry to go off on a tangent, but as a OL i have no advice. would you mind saying where a 3.2 puts you in your class? top 50%?



At most, if not all, schools in the T20 it puts you below the top half. Probably close to top 2/3 or top 3/4.

As for the question regarding what I am looking for - I am going for just being employed somewhere that isn't contract work or shitlaw.

I would not mind a small firm as long as I am not treated like a contract attorney (I understand that beggars cant be choosers but I have to have some sort of standard). I also wouldn't mind being a city attorney, but employment prospects for city attorneys are not great and that isn't something I would like to do long term.

I am not trying to 'strike gold' and I understand that getting more degrees does not guarantee you anything. I am just wondering whether getting another degree or taking classes in order to sit for the patent bar would be a better idea in terms of career path than taking a job at a small firm/shitlaw (and yes I know not all small firms are shitlaw). I think I would attempt to start a firm before going shitlaw.

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:42 pm

bk1 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
kblueboi wrote:sorry to go off on a tangent, but as a OL i have no advice. would you mind saying where a 3.2 puts you in your class? top 50%?


This is the T14 we are talking about. A 3.2 is bottom half for certain.


Wikipedia says 3.2 is above median at GULC (and possibly Michigan as well), but generally yes because most of them seem to curve to 3.3 (UT also curves to 3.3).


Those curves only apply for the first year (1L). After that, GPAs go up up up - OP is a 2L in his/her second semester, not a 1L. Therefore, it is almost certain that he/she is in the bottom half.

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:54 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Those curves only apply for the first year (1L). After that, GPAs go up up up - OP is a 2L in his/her second semester, not a 1L. Therefore, it is almost certain that he/she is in the bottom half.


I see. Forgot about that.

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby introversional » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:55 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
introversional wrote:
maf70 wrote:SILLY RABBIT, TEXAS ISN'T A T14.


They're not sweet 16 either. :)

I want to hate you, but a) I'm now numb to Texas basketball and b) your 'tar is friggin' sweet.


I'm numb to Indiana Basketball, aside from Butler, which I shall now claim as my favorite Indiana hoops squad. At least they have heart.

Thanks for the tar-pliments, btw. I just figured this little guy says "hey, I'm not here to troll or be a hardass - just looking for a good time, and to maybe lick up some good information along the way."

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:00 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
introversional wrote:
maf70 wrote:SILLY RABBIT, TEXAS ISN'T A T14.


They're not sweet 16 either. :)


As an Arizona alum this makes me very happy (even though I'm attending UT in the fall).

You, I can hate. :evil:


Learn how to inbound the ball, not fall behind by 13 in the first half, avoid a double team (thompson), and take contact like a man (last play with hamilton... he moved)


Oh also, fire Barnes. The dude has so much talent and doesn't do a thing with it. Terrible coach. I've been watching games all season and his inbounds plays and end of game situations are always terrible. Also their FT shooting sucks. That's all coaching.

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby patrickd139 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
As an Arizona alum this makes me very happy (even though I'm attending UT in the fall).

You, I can hate. :evil:


Learn how to inbound the ball, not fall behind by 13 in the first half, avoid a double team (thompson), and take contact like a man (last play with hamilton... he moved)


Oh also, fire Barnes. The dude has so much talent and doesn't do a thing with it. Terrible coach. I've been watching games all season and his inbounds plays and end of game situations are always terrible. Also their FT shooting sucks. That's all coaching.

I don't want this to devolve into basketball, but I agree with everything you said. As a four year basketball band member (I was at almost every single home game), I've been disappointed by Rick Barnes for as long as I can remember.

Back on topic. OP: Contract work, pound the pavement with résumés, call in contacts, head hunters, secondary markets, non-legal jobs (though not with more education; you're overqualified for most everything already and don't need the extra debt). If you go the non-legal job route though, you can probably kiss biglaw goodbye.

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby romothesavior » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:18 pm

I'm usually one to push the envelope in on topic threads so this may be the pot calling the kettle black, but this is the employment lounge folks. The March Madness thread is this way.

OP, I don't think B-school is the best move. Don't waste more time and more money on an unsure thing. Consulting is not any easy field to get into, and an MBA is typically most useful when you have work experience. You don't want to wind up with two unhelpful degrees and still have poor job prospects in a few years.

Keep in mind that while OCI makes getting a job easier (especially a high paying one), most employers hire outside of OCI. You may not even get a job until after graduation and take the bar. Yes, biglaw is probably out, but by no means is a successful legal career foreclosed at this point. Do you want to be a lawyer? If so, then you better hit the ground running. Based on your OP, it sounds like you have been a bit lazy. You need to get your ass out there and mass mail, cold call firms and agencies, do whatever you can to get a job this summer.

Even at just below median, most T14 students will wind up doing something legal after graduation. It may not be the white shoe firm you had hoped for when you entered law school, and the path to a successful career may be longer than you had hoped, but you can still enjoy a career in law (if that's what you want to do). As a 1L, I can't really give you a lot of advice on specifics (plus you gave us almost zero indication of what you're interested in doing). I just wanted to tell you to man up, because based on the very limited information you've given us, it sounds like you have done very little in the way of job searching.

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby Cade McNown » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Learn how to inbound the ball, not fall behind by 13 in the first half, avoid a double team (thompson), and take contact like a man (last play with hamilton... he moved)


Oh also, fire Barnes. The dude has so much talent and doesn't do a thing with it. Terrible coach. I've been watching games all season and his inbounds plays and end of game situations are always terrible. Also their FT shooting sucks. That's all coaching.


Agree with everything, but call a foul a foul. There were two fouls on the last shot: shove in the back, and a hit to the back of the head. You can't swallow the whistle just because it's the end of a game. Mad b/c that game was all I needed to win 4 game parlay.

Edit for OP: Don't go business school, waste of time and $. You can get your consulting gig with a BA alone. I understand you're below median but I would think you could still pull something outside of "shitlaw".

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:39 pm

romothesavior wrote:OP, I don't think B-school is the best move. Don't waste more time and more money on an unsure thing. Consulting is not any easy field to get into, and an MBA is typically most useful when you have work experience. You don't want to wind up with two unhelpful degrees and still have poor job prospects in a few years.

Keep in mind that while OCI makes getting a job easier (especially a high paying one), most employers hire outside of OCI. You may not even get a job until after graduation and take the bar. Yes, biglaw is probably out, but by no means is a successful legal career foreclosed at this point. Do you want to be a lawyer? If so, then you better hit the ground running. Based on your OP, it sounds like you have been a bit lazy. You need to get your ass out there and mass mail, cold call firms and agencies, do whatever you can to get a job this summer.


I see your point on b-school. I would not consider going unless I got into something in the top 10 (which still is not a guarantee for a job). Work experience is also an issue.

As for still working on finding a job - I have not stopped trying to find something. I apply to things on the job bank as well as to places in the area or near my hometown. I am still interviewing (i had a couple before spring break and have one this week) the problem is that a lot of the mid-size firms currently hiring look for people with either work experience or class experience in their specific practice (which makes sense) and I unfortunately have taken a wide array of classes instead of focusing on one area (such as family law, real estate or crim law). I have also had my interview skills rated by the CSO and asked a previous employer how I did and they both said that my interview skills are not the problem.

I do not plan on giving up looking for a legal job until I have no other choice but to either continue school or try something on my own. I would prefer to do something in litigation, but I am content with most practice areas (hence my class selections). I am just trying to figure out what the best thing to do after taking the bar if I cannot find a suitable job.

Two other things: I am not big law or bust (i already know that big law is probably out of the picture) and yes I am definitely below median, not at the bottom but definitely not top half.

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby keg411 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:54 pm

OP, try applying for trial level state court clerkships in your home town (if your home state is "undesirable" you can also try the appellate level). Since at that level they mostly go to locals, they may look at a T14'er even with below median grades (look to see if any judges graduated from your school). It's a good way to get a solid small firm job or gov't job afterward. It's probably a "slumming it" position for a T14 grad, but it's better than unemployment/doc review.

I would avoid the MBA route if I were you. Seems like a waste of time and $$.

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby drummerboy » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:29 pm

Explain shit law please. What are the hierarchies of potential jobs? I Know Biglaw Midlaw whats next?Thanks Im a 0L

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Re: T14 2L with no job - ideas for post law school

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:30 pm

Nevermind already answered. May I ask what % of your class you fall into?




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