LLM in Tax to increase chances at biglaw?

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lfgsuperman
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LLM in Tax to increase chances at biglaw?

Postby lfgsuperman » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:58 am

Would like to hear pros and cons.

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EdmundBurke23
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Re: LLM in Tax to increase chances at biglaw?

Postby EdmundBurke23 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:33 am

0L here -

aren't tax LLMs only useful if you already have several years of experience?

based on what i've read, i sort of got the vibe that tax LLM is tax lawyer's equivalent of MBA.

lfgsuperman
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Re: LLM in Tax to increase chances at biglaw?

Postby lfgsuperman » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:46 am

I'm not to sure about that. I have a good amount of friends who went on to their LLM immediately after graduating law school. They had no prior tax experience other than what they learned in law school.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: LLM in Tax to increase chances at biglaw?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:52 am

EdmundBurke23 wrote:0L here -

aren't tax LLMs only useful if you already have several years of experience?

based on what i've read, i sort of got the vibe that tax LLM is tax lawyer's equivalent of MBA.


No. There are things you learn in tax LLM programs that you don't learn in traditional law school tax courses.

OP - if you want to the top 3 tax LLM programs, your chances of big law would go up slightly. However, your chances of employment in general would go up a significant extent. Many mid-size and smaller firms are looking for people with LLM's in taxation. If you have a decent employment offer at graduation, getting and LLM in tax may not get you a "better" employment offer afterward. However, if you do not have decent employment at graduation, the LLM would increase your chances at decent employment.

lfgsuperman
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Re: LLM in Tax to increase chances at biglaw?

Postby lfgsuperman » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:06 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
EdmundBurke23 wrote:0L here -

aren't tax LLMs only useful if you already have several years of experience?

based on what i've read, i sort of got the vibe that tax LLM is tax lawyer's equivalent of MBA.


No. There are things you learn in tax LLM programs that you don't learn in traditional law school tax courses.

OP - if you want to the top 3 tax LLM programs, your chances of big law would go up slightly. However, your chances of employment in general would go up a significant extent. Many mid-size and smaller firms are looking for people with LLM's in taxation. If you have a decent employment offer at graduation, getting and LLM in tax may not get you a "better" employment offer afterward. However, if you do not have decent employment at graduation, the LLM would increase your chances at decent employment.


Thanks for your input! Why are the mid-size firms you mentioned looking for tax lawyers? Basically, why are they such a hot commodity? Is it because there are so few or because they are the only ones that understand tax law or?

lfgsuperman
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Re: LLM in Tax to increase chances at biglaw?

Postby lfgsuperman » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:52 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:The long and short of the chart, IIRC, is that unless you are going to a top 3 (maybe top 5?) program, there isn't much of an employment boost.


My preconceived notions about LLM programs lead me to agree with you. Anyone currently in or from a non T5 LLM program want to chime in and tell us otherwise?

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ArthurDigbySellers
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Re: LLM in Tax to increase chances at biglaw?

Postby ArthurDigbySellers » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:54 pm

I guess I can see NYU and Georgetown, but Florida seems so random. Really, the #2 tax LLM in the country? Huzzah Florida I guess, but you'd have to live in Gainesville in your mid 20s or older...yikes...

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Alex-Trof
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Re: LLM in Tax to increase chances at biglaw?

Postby Alex-Trof » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:04 pm

Image

lfgsuperman
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Re: LLM in Tax to increase chances at biglaw?

Postby lfgsuperman » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:06 pm

Alex-Trof wrote:Image


lol guess this sums it up for us

taxguy
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Re: LLM in Tax to increase chances at biglaw?

Postby taxguy » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:08 pm

First, no one seems to be asking the right question since everyone is very employment oriented. The real question is, " Will you like doing tax work?"
It is a very different, specialized discipline that is NOT right for everyone. Yes, I think geting an LLM in tax would increase your chances of employment,but if you don't like the field or aren't good at it, it won't help you in the long run.

As for only going to the top 3, that is rediculous. I attended Miami, taking a lot of tax courses, which I think was rated number 4 or 5, and I never had problems geting a job.

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ArthurDigbySellers
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Re: LLM in Tax to increase chances at biglaw?

Postby ArthurDigbySellers » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:35 pm

taxguy wrote:I attended Miami, taking a lot of tax courses


But was it an LLM? I think the idea here is that an LLM is a large additional expense that is almost always unnecessary except in very few circumstances (top LLM in a certain program).

I am curious though what tax law entails. How does it differ from say, being a CPA? I'm genuinely curious, not trolling.

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nealric
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Re: LLM in Tax to increase chances at biglaw?

Postby nealric » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:18 pm

I wouldn't get an LLM to increase biglaw chances. Given the tuition at top LLM programs, it's a high risk gamble. LLM OCI at GULC/NYU has been extremely bleak for the last few years. The way to get biglaw is through 2L OCI. Most of the people I knew from my LLM program did get jobs, but few got biglaw who didn't have it lined up already. Those that got jobs from the LLM tended to mostly go to big4 or some form of midlaw or tax consulting type of shop.


No. There are things you learn in tax LLM programs that you don't learn in traditional law school tax courses.


Depends on the school I suppose. At GULC, JDs could take LLM classes, and almost all the classes other than entry level ones were cross listed. Schools without much of a tax program tended to have less overlap. In general, people who took courses entitled "business tax" as opposed to courses entitled "Corporate Tax I" or "Partnership Tax" tended to get classes that were more geared towards people who did not intend to become tax lawyers.

based on what i've read, i sort of got the vibe that tax LLM is tax lawyer's equivalent of MBA.


Sort of. It's not an experience mandatory thing like an MBA, but the credited way to get an LLM is to have your firm pay for it. I was a definite oddity for coming to my firm with an LLM.

I am curious though what tax law entails. How does it differ from say, being a CPA? I'm genuinely curious, not trolling.


There can be overlap, but there can also be drastic differences. As a tax lawyer (at least in biglaw), you will almost never crunch numbers. You also won't prepare returns.

First, no one seems to be asking the right question since everyone is very employment oriented. The real question is, " Will you like doing tax work?"


I suppose, but I would assume people looking into an LLM program would have at least some proclivities towards the practice area.

As for only going to the top 3, that is rediculous. I attended Miami, taking a lot of tax courses, which I think was rated number 4 or 5, and I never had problems geting a job.


Didn't you attend over 10 years ago? The market is completely different today. You also probably paid a small fraction of today's tuition costs. Besides, the OP asked about LLM programs for biglaw. Very few biglaw tax lawyers have LLMs from non top-3 programs.

BeautifulSW
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Re: LLM in Tax to increase chances at biglaw?

Postby BeautifulSW » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:09 pm

nealric is right about this. Go check out http://www.taxtalent.com and see what people are saying about the market for entry level LL.M. tax lawyers. And tax really IS different even if you don't end up crunching numbers in a B4 accounting firm. Most lawyers really don't like tax. Sometimes I wonder if they're afraid of it.

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ArthurDigbySellers
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Re: LLM in Tax to increase chances at biglaw?

Postby ArthurDigbySellers » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:59 pm

BeautifulSW wrote:nealric is right about this. Go check out http://www.taxtalent.com and see what people are saying about the market for entry level LL.M. tax lawyers. And tax really IS different even if you don't end up crunching numbers in a B4 accounting firm. Most lawyers really don't like tax. Sometimes I wonder if they're afraid of it.


If there are jerbs I'll do it...I just want a jerb...any jerb that pays OK...

lfgsuperman
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Re: LLM in Tax to increase chances at biglaw?

Postby lfgsuperman » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:02 am

ArthurDigbySellers wrote:
BeautifulSW wrote:nealric is right about this. Go check out http://www.taxtalent.com and see what people are saying about the market for entry level LL.M. tax lawyers. And tax really IS different even if you don't end up crunching numbers in a B4 accounting firm. Most lawyers really don't like tax. Sometimes I wonder if they're afraid of it.


If there are jerbs I'll do it...I just want a jerb...any jerb that pays OK...


+1




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