What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

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KingRajesh
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What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby KingRajesh » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:15 pm

Is it just the long hours? The competitiveness?

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Veyron
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby Veyron » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:16 pm

KingRajesh wrote:Is it just the long hours? The competitiveness?


That and the leveraged model. Also, more like 3-4 years.

P.S. Based on that LSAT, doesn't look like its something you are going to have to worry about.

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holdencaulfield
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby holdencaulfield » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:24 pm

Veyron wrote:P.S. Based on that LSAT, doesn't look like its something you are going to have to worry about.



Ouch

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KingRajesh
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby KingRajesh » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:24 pm

Veyron wrote:
KingRajesh wrote:Is it just the long hours? The competitiveness?


That and the leveraged model. Also, more like 3-4 years.

P.S. Based on that LSAT, doesn't look like its something you are going to have to worry about.


Leveraged model?
Last edited by KingRajesh on Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Adjudicator
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby Adjudicator » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:26 pm

KingRajesh wrote:
Veyron wrote:
KingRajesh wrote:Is it just the long hours? The competitiveness?


That and the leveraged model. Also, more like 3-4 years.

P.S. Based on that LSAT, doesn't look like its something you are going to have to worry about.


Leveraged model?

Also: No need to be a dick about my LSAT, I've got URM. ;)


URM helps you get into a good law school, but it doesn't help you get good grades.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:28 pm

KingRajesh wrote:Also: No need to be a dick about my LSAT, I've got URM. ;)

Don't mean to derail the thread, but just out of curiosity, is Indian considered URM for law school admissions? (total assumption based on your TLS name, I apologize if I have assumed incorrectly)

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Unitas
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby Unitas » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:28 pm

Adjudicator wrote:
KingRajesh wrote:
Veyron wrote:
KingRajesh wrote:Is it just the long hours? The competitiveness?


That and the leveraged model. Also, more like 3-4 years.

P.S. Based on that LSAT, doesn't look like its something you are going to have to worry about.


Leveraged model?

Also: No need to be a dick about my LSAT, I've got URM. ;)


URM helps you get into a good law school, but it doesn't help you get good grades.


It helps you get a job.

See http://abovethelaw.com/2011/03/law-scho ... the-cheap/

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KingRajesh
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby KingRajesh » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:28 pm

Adjudicator wrote:
KingRajesh wrote:
Veyron wrote:
KingRajesh wrote:Is it just the long hours? The competitiveness?


That and the leveraged model. Also, more like 3-4 years.

P.S. Based on that LSAT, doesn't look like its something you are going to have to worry about.


Leveraged model?

Also: No need to be a dick about my LSAT, I've got URM. ;)


URM helps you get into a good law school, but it doesn't help you get good grades.


Don't worry about that. ;) I got that under control.

Can somebody please get back on topic?

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KingRajesh
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby KingRajesh » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:29 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:
KingRajesh wrote:Also: No need to be a dick about my LSAT, I've got URM. ;)

Don't mean to derail the thread, but just out of curiosity, is Indian considered URM for law school admissions? (total assumption based on your TLS name, I apologize if I have assumed incorrectly)


I'm black, mom was Indian.

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BrianGriffintheDog
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby BrianGriffintheDog » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:29 pm

Veyron wrote:
KingRajesh wrote:Is it just the long hours? The competitiveness?


That and the leveraged model. Also, more like 3-4 years.

P.S. Based on that LSAT, doesn't look like its something you are going to have to worry about.


Now that is just mean...but true that yo

Rule11
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby Rule11 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:30 pm

Leverage means that firms keep more associates than partners--most big firms are leveraged 3 or 4 to 1 (give or take). It's not hard to see that for this model to sustain itself, most associates won't make partner--there just isn't room. Many don't leave after 3 or 4 years by choice so much as by resignation, when they realize the brass ring of partnership will not be within their grasp.

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Veyron
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby Veyron » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:30 pm

KingRajesh wrote:
Veyron wrote:
KingRajesh wrote:Is it just the long hours? The competitiveness?


That and the leveraged model. Also, more like 3-4 years.

P.S. Based on that LSAT, doesn't look like its something you are going to have to worry about.


Leveraged model?

Also: No need to be a dick about my LSAT, I've got URM. ;)


Partners make $$$$ because (in a typical firm) there are several associates for every partner who the partners can bill out at profitable rates.

rose711
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby rose711 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:49 am

Not everyone leaves at 3-4-5 years, many good associates will stay on hoping to make partner, and to develop strong relationships with clients that will help them move out of the firm to a good in-house or of counsel job. Many people leave because they don't want the work environment or because they find something else - but ITE I wonder if more associates are hanging on to their biglaw jobs.


Also firms don't care about your LSAT if you have grades...and URM will definitely help you get jobs. Firms are under pressure from clients and society in general to hire URM.

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RVP11
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby RVP11 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:11 am

People, y'all need to go ask some 2Ls. URM doesn't help that much (if at all) in getting a BigLaw job.

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Cupidity
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby Cupidity » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:17 am

3/4 years is the typical range to lateral to a different firm, you can usually hang on to your associate position for 7 years at which point it is up or out. Partners make firms money, associates, especially the first 3 years, lose the firm money. The idea is that after 7 years, you either have what it takes to become a partner and bring in the cash for the firm, or you don't. The reason it is hard to lateral after 3-4 years is that the other firm assumes you don't have what it takes to make partner or you'd be staying.

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Cupidity
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby Cupidity » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:18 am

RVP11 wrote:People, y'all need to go ask some 2Ls. URM doesn't help that much (if at all) in getting a BigLaw job.


I'm sorry, what?

What world do you live in? (Or at least, what market are you talking about) Boston/NY/DC URM is worth at least 30% on the curve.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby DoubleChecks » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:22 am

RVP11 wrote:People, y'all need to go ask some 2Ls. URM doesn't help that much (if at all) in getting a BigLaw job.


and it is only so much of a stat boost for law schools right? lol i dont know how much the bump would take a 3.3/159

sorry, i just contributed to thread derail -- but many people already answered your question OP

ill add that others tend to join just to pay off their loans, hate the lifestyle, and use the exit options to go in house or start their own small firm or something after debt is gone

Renzo
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby Renzo » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:35 am

[quote="Cupidity" Partners make firms money, associates, especially the first 3 years, lose the firm money. [/quote]

This is exactly backwards. Associates are how law firms make money, and the money that the firms skim off of associates' hours is shared amongst the partners. That's why firms want lots of associates and not very many partners.

All a firm really needs from a junior associate is for them to bill a ton of hours, because the more hours billed, the more the partners make off of them. In contrast, making one more partner means that they each have to take a smaller share of the profits; it's money right out of their pockets.

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Moxie
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby Moxie » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:39 am

Cupidity wrote:
RVP11 wrote:People, y'all need to go ask some 2Ls. URM doesn't help that much (if at all) in getting a BigLaw job.


I'm sorry, what?

What world do you live in? (Or at least, what market are you talking about) Boston/NY/DC URM is worth at least 30% on the curve.


It also helps to get 1L Diversity SAs.

PS Veyron reminds us again that he's the most obnoxious poster on this board.

bigben
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby bigben » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:42 am

Cupidity wrote:3/4 years is the typical range to lateral to a different firm, you can usually hang on to your associate position for 7 years at which point it is up or out. Partners make firms money, associates, especially the first 3 years, lose the firm money. The idea is that after 7 years, you either have what it takes to become a partner and bring in the cash for the firm, or you don't. The reason it is hard to lateral after 3-4 years is that the other firm assumes you don't have what it takes to make partner or you'd be staying.

LOLOLOL. Do the math. Associates are profitable from day one. Many leave within 3 years; firms would never hire them if they weren't profitable for 3 years. I've heard the false myth that 1st years are not profitable, but never 3rd years....

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LLB2JD
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby LLB2JD » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:44 am

Moxie wrote:
Cupidity wrote:
RVP11 wrote:People, y'all need to go ask some 2Ls. URM doesn't help that much (if at all) in getting a BigLaw job.


I'm sorry, what?

What world do you live in? (Or at least, what market are you talking about) Boston/NY/DC URM is worth at least 30% on the curve.


It also helps to get 1L Diversity SAs.

PS Veyron reminds us again that he's the most obnoxious poster on this board.



+1 - It is getting very unbearable.

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:48 am

Veyron wrote:
KingRajesh wrote:Is it just the long hours? The competitiveness?

P.S. Based on that LSAT, doesn't look like its something you are going to have to worry about.

Edgy and cool.

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Veyron
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby Veyron » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:50 am

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
Veyron wrote:
KingRajesh wrote:Is it just the long hours? The competitiveness?

P.S. Based on that LSAT, doesn't look like its something you are going to have to worry about.

Edgy and cool.


Thank you. I'm glad you appreciate my posting style.

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KingRajesh
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby KingRajesh » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:03 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
RVP11 wrote:People, y'all need to go ask some 2Ls. URM doesn't help that much (if at all) in getting a BigLaw job.


and it is only so much of a stat boost for law schools right? lol i dont know how much the bump would take a 3.3/159

sorry, i just contributed to thread derail -- but many people already answered your question OP

ill add that others tend to join just to pay off their loans, hate the lifestyle, and use the exit options to go in house or start their own small firm or something after debt is gone


Lets just say... it helped get me into a T-14, but I ain't paying sticker. I'd rather take the 3/4ths ride at Illinois.
Last edited by KingRajesh on Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: What is with this 5 years at biglaw and you're out?

Postby DoubleChecks » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:06 pm

KingRajesh wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
RVP11 wrote:People, y'all need to go ask some 2Ls. URM doesn't help that much (if at all) in getting a BigLaw job.


and it is only so much of a stat boost for law schools right? lol i dont know how much the bump would take a 3.3/159

sorry, i just contributed to thread derail -- but many people already answered your question OP

ill add that others tend to join just to pay off their loans, hate the lifestyle, and use the exit options to go in house or start their own small firm or something after debt is gone


Lets just say... it helped get me into a T-14, but I ain't paying sticker. I'd rather take the 3/4ths ride at Illinois.

URM FTW


well im a bit surprised, but congrats on your results.

that being said, im so pessimistic about the legal market now, id probably turn down bottom T14 at sticker myself. 3/4 at Illinois may be the right move, i dont know how the market is like there (assuming you'll be staying there) -- however, obviously it reduces your chances at biglaw in the same breath




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