Is biglaw really it for T14?

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gmreplay
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Re: Is biglaw really it for T14?

Postby gmreplay » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:12 am

rayiner wrote:
gmreplay wrote:Doesn't anyone find the concept of a 65-80 hour workweek a little bothersome? Frankly I find the biglaw hours on the high end to be perverse.


Lot's of people. But how much overlap is there between that set and the set of law school students, who think it is a good idea to spent the best years of their life reading cases for 60 hours/week?


Anyone here, specifically.

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HarlandBassett
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Re: Is biglaw really it for T14?

Postby HarlandBassett » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:18 pm

gmreplay wrote:
bigben wrote:
gmreplay wrote:Doesn't a 40-50k salary with 150k in debt basically mean you're screwed? Unless you can LRAP your way out it seems like anything but biglaw is a losing proposition.

Yes. Law school generally isn't a good investment at a 150k price point or even 75k unless you're getting biglaw or midlaw. That's regardless of whether you are taking out loans or paying in cash.


So who is supposed to staff government/PI positions?

Doesn't anyone find the concept of a 65-80 hour workweek a little bothersome? Frankly I find the biglaw hours on the high end to be perverse.
That is the purpose of LRAP, to encourage PI applicants and relieve their debt burden.

rundoxierun
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Re: Is biglaw really it for T14?

Postby rundoxierun » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:43 pm

gmreplay wrote:
bigben wrote:
gmreplay wrote:Doesn't a 40-50k salary with 150k in debt basically mean you're screwed? Unless you can LRAP your way out it seems like anything but biglaw is a losing proposition.

Yes. Law school generally isn't a good investment at a 150k price point or even 75k unless you're getting biglaw or midlaw. That's regardless of whether you are taking out loans or paying in cash.


So who is supposed to staff government/PI positions?

Doesn't anyone find the concept of a 65-80 hour workweek a little bothersome? Frankly I find the biglaw hours on the high end to be perverse.


From what I have been told by multiple actual biglaw lawyers the typical workweek is actually in the 50-65 hr range with there being a few peaks where it goes higher. FWIW, in the corporate environments I have seen/worked in the pay is less than half of biglaw and the typical workweek is in the 50-65 hr range.

gmreplay
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Re: Is biglaw really it for T14?

Postby gmreplay » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:07 pm

HarlandBassett wrote:
gmreplay wrote:
bigben wrote:
gmreplay wrote:Doesn't a 40-50k salary with 150k in debt basically mean you're screwed? Unless you can LRAP your way out it seems like anything but biglaw is a losing proposition.

Yes. Law school generally isn't a good investment at a 150k price point or even 75k unless you're getting biglaw or midlaw. That's regardless of whether you are taking out loans or paying in cash.


So who is supposed to staff government/PI positions?

Doesn't anyone find the concept of a 65-80 hour workweek a little bothersome? Frankly I find the biglaw hours on the high end to be perverse.
That is the purpose of LRAP, to encourage PI applicants and relieve their debt burden.


Even with the debt being expunged 40-60k isn't exactly a lot of money, and it's basically untenable in a big city like NYC.

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thesealocust
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Re: Is biglaw really it for T14?

Postby thesealocust » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:10 pm

gmreplay wrote:Even with the debt being expunged 40-60k isn't exactly a lot of money, and it's basically untenable in a big city like NYC.


Median household income in NYC in 2000 was $38,000. It must suck that half the city has an untenable salary : /

gmreplay
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Re: Is biglaw really it for T14?

Postby gmreplay » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:18 pm

thesealocust wrote:
gmreplay wrote:Even with the debt being expunged 40-60k isn't exactly a lot of money, and it's basically untenable in a big city like NYC.


Median household income in NYC in 2000 was $38,000. It must suck that half the city has an untenable salary : /


Does that count the homeless and people who live in subsidized housing? If so, I don't count that as tenable. I'd also like to not be impoverished after spending 7 years and $250,000 on an education.

Here's what I want: a law job that pays about 80-90k in return for about 45-55 hours of work a week. Why is that so much to ask?

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TatteredDignity
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Re: Is biglaw really it for T14?

Postby TatteredDignity » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:29 pm

gmreplay wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
gmreplay wrote:Even with the debt being expunged 40-60k isn't exactly a lot of money, and it's basically untenable in a big city like NYC.


Median household income in NYC in 2000 was $38,000. It must suck that half the city has an untenable salary : /


Does that count the homeless and people who live in subsidized housing? If so, I don't count that as tenable. I'd also like to not be impoverished after spending 7 years and $250,000 on an education.

Here's what I want: a law job that pays about 80-90k in return for about 45-55 hours of work a week. Why is that so much to ask?


Show me that job.

gmreplay
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Re: Is biglaw really it for T14?

Postby gmreplay » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:30 pm

0LNewbie wrote:
gmreplay wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
gmreplay wrote:Even with the debt being expunged 40-60k isn't exactly a lot of money, and it's basically untenable in a big city like NYC.


Median household income in NYC in 2000 was $38,000. It must suck that half the city has an untenable salary : /


Does that count the homeless and people who live in subsidized housing? If so, I don't count that as tenable. I'd also like to not be impoverished after spending 7 years and $250,000 on an education.

Here's what I want: a law job that pays about 80-90k in return for about 45-55 hours of work a week. Why is that so much to ask?


Show me that job.


Hey pal I theorized it first, I got dibs.

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thesealocust
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Re: Is biglaw really it for T14?

Postby thesealocust » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:37 pm

gmreplay wrote:Here's what I want: a law job that pays about 80-90k in return for about 45-55 hours of work a week. Why is that so much to ask?


Because the premium comes not just for expertise but for availability and intensity. Some firms make claims about having part time schedules, but really a lot of the value associates provide is being on call all the time.

People often make cracks about how on a per hour big law salaries aren't that staggering, but that neglects the fact that most other hourly wage earners couldn't work the # of hours an associate does if they wanted to.

All that being said, the job you're looking for is a senior federal government job. Somebody I know earned a 6-figure salary and worked on a modified work schedule with every other Friday off totaling just about 40-50 hours per week.

rundoxierun
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Re: Is biglaw really it for T14?

Postby rundoxierun » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:12 pm

thesealocust wrote:
gmreplay wrote:Here's what I want: a law job that pays about 80-90k in return for about 45-55 hours of work a week. Why is that so much to ask?


Because the premium comes not just for expertise but for availability and intensity. Some firms make claims about having part time schedules, but really a lot of the value associates provide is being on call all the time.

People often make cracks about how on a per hour big law salaries aren't that staggering, but that neglects the fact that most other hourly wage earners couldn't work the # of hours an associate does if they wanted to.

All that being said, the job you're looking for is a senior federal government job. Somebody I know earned a 6-figure salary and worked on a modified work schedule with every other Friday off totaling just about 40-50 hours per week.


I know a guy who works for some gov't organization in charge of deciding in cases of possible ethics violations by judges. He makes 6 figures and works 40-50 hrs/wk. These days, plenty of 60k jobs require at least 50-60 hrs. a week. Working sucks, I want to just collect degrees.

Flanker1067
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Re: Is biglaw really it for T14?

Postby Flanker1067 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:25 pm

When I was a 0L I used to think like most of you. While I wouldn't call gov't salaries untenable, you probably feel poor when your peers are making a lot and you are almost 30 and still need to live with a roommate. That being said, since being in law school I am leaning towards becoming a prosecutor for two reasons:(1) the work is infinitely more interesting and when you meet people (and profs) who have spent careers in biglaw vs. those in prosecution you will get a feeling of the cost of going the biglaw route; and (2) being a prosecutor trains you up in litigation significantly faster than going straight to biglaw, and some prosecutors go straight to being partners in litigation practices at large firms.

Add: part (2) is for those concerned with being poor their whole lives, like me.




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