TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

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reasonable_man
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TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:46 pm

Its nice to see that one of the nation's TTTs is doing the responsible thing and downsizing its class this year in response to a lack of available jobs for its graduates. While a reduction of 10 students is not very significant.. Its a start..


Now if we could only stop the race to open the doors to new TTTs each year and talk schools into releasing some actual emplyoment data we might actually get somewhere...

--LinkRemoved--

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General Tso
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby General Tso » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:48 pm

cannot read without registration. which school is it?

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reasonable_man
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:51 pm

General Tso wrote:cannot read without registration. which school is it?



i'll reprint the article if thats ok with TLS in this limited instance, as I know policy dictates that articles should be linked, not reprinted.. It is Albany...



NY Law School to Slash Class Size, Budget

By Karen Sloan | The National Law Journal

Subscribe to The National Law Journal - 30 Days Free!

Are law schools starting to downsize?

Pundits have predicted for several years that market forces will eventually force law schools to shrink enrollment due to the dearth of jobs available to graduates. If Albany Law School of Union University is any indication, that change may be nigh.

Albany plans to reduce the size of its incoming class from 250 to 240 and cut 2% from its $32 million budget — a $600,000 reduction. The school has also nixed pay raises for employees and is raising tuition by 4%, though dean and president Thomas Guernsey said that increase isn't enough to offset the lost tuition revenue that will result from the smaller class.

Albany has received about 20% fewer applications this year. Reducing the class size is intended to help the school preserve the academic qualifications of the new class, and to ensure they have access to jobs when they graduate, said Guernsey.

"This is really a reflection of the job market," Guernsey said. "It seems like the right business judgment at this time, given the economy."

Guernsey noted that Albany is not alone in seeing fewer applications. Nationwide, law school applications to American Bar Association-accredited schools are down by nearly 13% compared to a year ago, according to the Law School Admission Council. By contrast, the number of applications grew by 7% the previous year.

To continue accepting the same number of students would mean declines in median LSAT scores and GPAs, Guernsey said. He predicts that more law schools will follow suit with modest budget and class size reductions, not because there won't be enough applicants to fill seats, but because they want to preserve their standards.

"Schools are going to have to respond to the market forces," he said. "If you want to maintain your academic quality, you're going to have to make some hard choices. This is something all law schools are going to have to think about."

Albany is not facing financial problems, but is acting proactively to ensure it won't face budget shortages down the line, Guernsey said. Budget shortfalls have become common at law schools during the past several years, particularly at public law schools in budget-strapped states. Albany employees have been fairly supportive of the pay freeze, given that employees at the University of California's law schools have been furloughed without pay, Guernsey said.

The William S. Boyd School of Law at the University of Nevada is perhaps in the toughest financial position right now. State legislators have indicated that they will cut $47.5 million in funding to the university system, and that the law school will see a $2.3 million reduction of its budget.

Still, not everyone seems to be getting the message that less is more. Plans are moving forward for a new Baptist-affiliated law school in Louisiana. Louisiana College's law school is slated to open in Shreveport in the fall of 2012. Texas, New York, and Delaware are among other states where officials are considering new public law schools.

FiveSermon
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:53 pm

Nice, one step closer to shutting down for good.

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General Tso
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby General Tso » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:05 pm

Hastings went from ~420 students in class of 2012 to ~350 in class of 2013. I don't think Albany cutting 10 students is going to make a big impact. They need to slash their school in half. I do not care how many Space, Bird, and Human Rights professors lose their job as a result.

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Malcolm8X
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby Malcolm8X » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:08 pm

I think ALL schools should consider (even though I got in this year partly because schools aren't drastically downsizing, thank GOD!!!)

edit: wait a minute, I saw the title and was duped.. 10 students!?!? C'mon
Last edited by Malcolm8X on Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rman1201
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby rman1201 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:10 pm

Booyah
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=147090&start=50

I'm sure all the schools' combined effort will result in no more than 400-500 less law students, but it's a start.

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Borhas
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby Borhas » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:13 pm

Malcolm8X wrote:I think ALL schools should consider (even though I got in this year partly because schools aren't drastically downsizing, thank GOD!!!)

edit: wait a minute, I saw the title and was duped.. 10 students!?!? C'mon


All schools shouldn't, some are already so small that they aren't very economically efficient (which is fine cause they just bump up tuition prices).

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Blindmelon
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:40 pm

Rumor is that BU is cutting by 30ish students next year.

FiveSermon
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:09 pm

Blindmelon wrote:Rumor is that BU is cutting by 30ish students next year.


That seems like a lot.

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A'nold
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby A'nold » Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:37 pm

Cutting down each class across the country by like 15% would probably really help this crisis. It wouldn't by any means solve it, but it could help.

missinglink
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby missinglink » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:04 pm

Sounds like good news. Hopefully more schools will follow suit.

For somewhat selfish reasons, I wonder if schools will be looking to cut back on transfer classes in the near future? As a part of a general trend to shrink overall class sizes.

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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:08 pm

A'nold wrote:Cutting down each class across the country by like 15% would probably really help this crisis. It wouldn't by any means solve it, but it could help.


This except all T3 schools should cut down by 50% or more.

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A'nold
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby A'nold » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:36 pm

FiveSermon wrote:
A'nold wrote:Cutting down each class across the country by like 15% would probably really help this crisis. It wouldn't by any means solve it, but it could help.


This except all T3 schools should cut down by 50% or more.

Well yeah, mostly all of us on here agree that most private law schools past t2 (there are many in the t2 that I would lump in here too) should completely shut down.

T3's like U. of Montana, North/South Dakota, etc. should remain open but schools like Willamette, Gonzaga, Akron, Tulsa, Cooley, etc. should be bye-bye.

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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby rman1201 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:39 pm

A'nold wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:
A'nold wrote:Cutting down each class across the country by like 15% would probably really help this crisis. It wouldn't by any means solve it, but it could help.


This except all T3 schools should cut down by 50% or more.

Well yeah, mostly all of us on here agree that most private law schools past t2 (there are many in the t2 that I would lump in here too) should completely shut down.

T3's like U. of Montana, North/South Dakota, etc. should remain open but schools like Willamette, Gonzaga, Akron, Tulsa, Cooley, etc. should be bye-bye.


Like that would ever happen - it would risk making law a respectable profession.

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A'nold
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby A'nold » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:03 pm

rman1201 wrote:
A'nold wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:
A'nold wrote:Cutting down each class across the country by like 15% would probably really help this crisis. It wouldn't by any means solve it, but it could help.


This except all T3 schools should cut down by 50% or more.

Well yeah, mostly all of us on here agree that most private law schools past t2 (there are many in the t2 that I would lump in here too) should completely shut down.

T3's like U. of Montana, North/South Dakota, etc. should remain open but schools like Willamette, Gonzaga, Akron, Tulsa, Cooley, etc. should be bye-bye.


Like that would ever happen - it would risk making law a respectable profession.

It would be cool to see what the profession would be like if, by law, there could only be 100 law schools in the country, each state being allowed at least 1. There would still be multiple law schools in CA and probably TX but wouldn't it be cool if, say, all of the Florida schools but UF and maybe FSU were cut?

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rman1201
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby rman1201 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:06 pm

A'nold wrote:It would be cool to see what the profession would be like if, by law, there could only be 100 law schools in the country, each state being allowed at least 1. There would still be multiple law schools in CA and probably TX but wouldn't it be cool if, say, all of the Florida schools but UF and maybe FSU were cut?


Although it is somewhat frightening to think a 170 could be the minimum for UF, and softs would actually matter at top schools. But at least there'd be guaranteed jobs for all.

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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby flcath » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:15 pm

I am concerned that my Infilaw stocks might go down.

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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby OGR3 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:16 pm

A'nold wrote:It would be cool to see what the profession would be like if, by law, there could only be 100 law schools in the country, each state being allowed at least 1. There would still be multiple law schools in CA and probably TX but wouldn't it be cool if, say, all of the Florida schools but UF and maybe FSU were cut?


The only way I'd be okay with something like this is if Cooley was still allowed to stay open.

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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby flcath » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:20 pm

OGR3 wrote:
A'nold wrote:It would be cool to see what the profession would be like if, by law, there could only be 100 law schools in the country, each state being allowed at least 1. There would still be multiple law schools in CA and probably TX but wouldn't it be cool if, say, all of the Florida schools but UF and maybe FSU were cut?


The only way I'd be okay with something like this is if Cooley was still allowed to stay open.

Expound on this, plz

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legal_eagle
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby legal_eagle » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:23 pm

flcath wrote:
OGR3 wrote:
A'nold wrote:It would be cool to see what the profession would be like if, by law, there could only be 100 law schools in the country, each state being allowed at least 1. There would still be multiple law schools in CA and probably TX but wouldn't it be cool if, say, all of the Florida schools but UF and maybe FSU were cut?


The only way I'd be okay with something like this is if Cooley was still allowed to stay open.

Expound on this, plz




Cooley is ranked number 2 of course they would stay open

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A'nold
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby A'nold » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:29 pm

Let's figure this out b/c I'm bored. I also have to change my opinion that every state gets one b/c there are a few where it makes no sense.:

Alabama 1. U. of Alabama
Alaska ?????? Maybe but I'll just assume out.
Arizona 2. U. of Arizona
Arkansas 3. Arkansas-Fayetteville
California 4. Stanford, 5. Berkeley, 6. UCLA, I'm adding USC at the bottom.
Colorado 7. UC-Boulder
Connecticut 8. UConn, lol, I forgot to add Yale.
Delaware ?????
Florida 9. UF, 10. FSU
Georgia 11. Emory, 12. UGA
Hawaii 13. Hawaii (this one was a maybe but the classes are pretty small)
Idaho 14. U. of Idaho
Illinois 15. U. of Chicago, 16. Northwestern, 17. UIUC
Indiana 18. Indiana
Iowa 19. Iowa
Kansas 20. Kansas
Kentucky 21. Kentucky
Louisiana 22. Tulane (based on history, but this is up for debate b/c LSU is a state school). For now I will include LSU as well. 23. LSU
Maine- 24. U. of Maine
Maryland- 25. GULC, 26. GWU, 27. Maryland
Massachusetts- 28. Harvard, 29. BU, 30. BC
Michigan- 31. U. of Michigan
Minnesota- 32. Minn
Mississippi- 33. Ole Miss
Missouri- 34. WUSTL, 35. Mizzou
Montana- 36. Montana
Nebraska- 37. Nebraska
Nevada- 38. UNLV
New Hampshire ??????
New Jersey- 39. Pick one of the Rutgers.
New Mexico- 40. New Mexico
New York- 41. Columbia, 42. NYU, 43. Fordham, forgot to add Cornell.
North Carolina 44. Duke, 45. UNC
North Dakota 46. North Dakota
Ohio 47. OSU, 48. Cinci
Oklahoma- 49. Oklahoma
Oregon- 50. Oregon
Pennsylvania- 51. Penn, 52. Temple
Rhode Island-???????
South Carolina- 53. USC
South Dakota- 54. South Dakota
Tennessee- 55. Vandy, 56. U. of Tennessee
Texas- 57. UT, 58. Houston (no offense to SMU)
Utah- 59. BYU, 60. U. of Utah
Vermont- ?????? I don't like how expensive U. of Vermont is. Maybe a state school for NH, VT.
Virginia- 61. UVA, 62. William and Mary, 63. Washington & Lee
Washington- 64. UW
West Virginia- 65. WVU
Wisconsin- 66. U. of Wisconsin
Wyoming- 67. Wyoming
68. I forgot to add USC under CA.
69. Yale.
70. Cornell.

I know I forgot some but here you go, 70 or so law schools.

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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby rman1201 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:30 pm

A'nold wrote:Let's figure this out b/c I'm bored. I also have to change my opinion that every state gets one b/c there are a few where it makes no sense.:

Alabama 1. U. of Alabama
Alaska ?????? Maybe but I'll just assume out.
Arizona 2. U. of Arizona
Arkansas 3. Arkansas-Fayetteville
California 4. Stanford, 5. Berkeley, 6. UCLA, I'm adding USC at the bottom.
Colorado 7. UC-Boulder
Connecticut 8. UConn, lol, I forgot to add Yale.
Delaware ?????
Florida 9. UF, 10. FSU
Georgia 11. Emory, 12. UGA
Hawaii 13. Hawaii (this one was a maybe but the classes are pretty small)
Idaho 14. U. of Idaho
Illinois 15. U. of Chicago, 16. Northwestern, 17. UIUC
Indiana 18. Indiana
Iowa 19. Iowa
Kansas 20. Kansas
Kentucky 21. Kentucky
Louisiana 22. Tulane (based on history, but this is up for debate b/c LSU is a state school). For now I will include LSU as well. 23. LSU
Maine- 24. U. of Maine
Maryland- 25. GULC, 26. GWU, 27. Maryland
Massachusetts- 28. Harvard, 29. BU, 30. BC
Michigan- 31. U. of Michigan
Minnesota- 32. Minn
Mississippi- 33. Ole Miss
Missouri- 34. WUSTL, 35. Mizzou
Montana- 36. Montana
Nebraska- 37. Nebraska
Nevada- 38. UNLV
New Hampshire ??????
New Jersey- 39. Pick one of the Rutgers.
New Mexico- 40. New Mexico
New York- 41. Columbia, 42. NYU, 43. Fordham, forgot to add Cornell.
North Carolina 44. Duke, 45. UNC
North Dakota 46. North Dakota
Ohio 47. OSU, 48. Cinci
Oklahoma- 49. Oklahoma
Oregon- 50. Oregon
Pennsylvania- 51. Penn, 52. Temple
Rhode Island-???????
South Carolina- 53. USC
South Dakota- 54. South Dakota
Tennessee- 55. Vandy, 56. U. of Tennessee
Texas- 57. UT, 58. Houston (no offense to SMU)
Utah- 59. BYU, 60. U. of Utah
Vermont- ?????? I don't like how expensive U. of Vermont is. Maybe a state school for NH, VT.
Virginia- 61. UVA, 62. William and Mary, 63. Washington & Lee
Washington- 64. UW
West Virginia- 65. WVU
Wisconsin- 66. U. of Wisconsin
Wyoming- 67. Wyoming
68. I forgot to add USC under CA.
69. Yale.
70. Cornell.

I know I forgot some but here you go, 70 or so law schools.


Now analyze the data to figure out the new medians and class sizes :D

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A'nold
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby A'nold » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:32 pm

OGR3 wrote:
A'nold wrote:It would be cool to see what the profession would be like if, by law, there could only be 100 law schools in the country, each state being allowed at least 1. There would still be multiple law schools in CA and probably TX but wouldn't it be cool if, say, all of the Florida schools but UF and maybe FSU were cut?


The only way I'd be okay with something like this is if Cooley was still allowed to stay open.


Of course Cooley could stay open. It could admit all of the sub 164's out there and make us all compete with each other for the honor of getting to 2L year.

It could admit like 13,000 students and leave spots open for like 400. Then the ABA could make money off of the t.v. reality show rights and we could all live in overpopulated co-ed dorms w/ unlimited alcohol. Hello MTV smash hit.

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blink
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Re: TTT to admit fewer students due to ITE

Postby blink » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:37 pm

would state legislatures ever take this issue on?




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