Do firms allow 1L SAs to take days off for Fall OCI?

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aPosseAdEsse
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Do firms allow 1L SAs to take days off for Fall OCI?

Postby aPosseAdEsse » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:31 pm

This is just a hypothetical situation/question.

If you're hired to work as a 1L SA for say 10 weeks, and that period will run into the Fall OCI week, will firms generally allow the 1Ls to take a few days off to participate?

I suppose the compromise would be to find a way to do the screening interviews in the evening, but what if your 1L OCI is in a different city? I imagine this is a little awkward in that most firms want their 1Ls to return as 2Ls, and of course most students are hoping to return as 2Ls, but it wouldn't be prudent to close the door on all other options.

Sup Kid
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Re: Do firms allow 1L SAs to take days off for Fall OCI?

Postby Sup Kid » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:42 pm

Most firms want their 1L SAs to return for 4-6 weeks during their 2L summer, and encourage them to try out a different firm for the other half of the summer. Also, if its a 10-week SA position, it is highly unlikely that it will run into the second week of August, which is when most OCI things begin.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Do firms allow 1L SAs to take days off for Fall OCI?

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:46 pm

Sup Kid wrote:Most firms want their 1L SAs to return for 4-6 weeks during their 2L summer, and encourage them to try out a different firm for the other half of the summer. Also, if its a 10-week SA position, it is highly unlikely that it will run into the second week of August, which is when most OCI things begin.


Disclaimer: I'm a 0L.

I must say that the above statement is completely contradictory to everything I've been told by recruiters and from what I've read. Most firms I've spoken with do not allow split summers and I've not heard anybody at a firm I've spoken with encourage me to speak with another firm in the area. I have been told that some firms will allow you to go to a different office within the same firm, but not that they will gladly allow you to go off to another firm.

aPosseAdEsse
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Re: Do firms allow 1L SAs to take days off for Fall OCI?

Postby aPosseAdEsse » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:54 pm

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
Sup Kid wrote:Most firms want their 1L SAs to return for 4-6 weeks during their 2L summer, and encourage them to try out a different firm for the other half of the summer. Also, if its a 10-week SA position, it is highly unlikely that it will run into the second week of August, which is when most OCI things begin.


Disclaimer: I'm a 0L.

I must say that the above statement is completely contradictory to everything I've been told by recruiters and from what I've read. Most firms I've spoken with do not allow split summers and I've not heard anybody at a firm I've spoken with encourage me to speak with another firm in the area. I have been told that some firms will allow you to go to a different office within the same firm, but not that they will gladly allow you to go off to another firm.


It probably depends significantly on the competitiveness of the candidate. If you're from at T14 & likeable, I imagine a firm is more willing to let you split than to come off and unreasonable and drive you away. On the other hand, if you're from a Tier2 and barely made the cut, so to speak, they might not tolerate as much. And of course it depends a lot on the firm.

---

Regarding my question above: Suppose OCI will most likely overlap. Does anyone have anecdotal experience/stories about something like this? Or any informed guesses about how firms usually handle these situations?

Sup Kid
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Re: Do firms allow 1L SAs to take days off for Fall OCI?

Postby Sup Kid » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:26 pm

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
Sup Kid wrote:Most firms want their 1L SAs to return for 4-6 weeks during their 2L summer, and encourage them to try out a different firm for the other half of the summer. Also, if its a 10-week SA position, it is highly unlikely that it will run into the second week of August, which is when most OCI things begin.


Disclaimer: I'm a 0L.

I must say that the above statement is completely contradictory to everything I've been told by recruiters and from what I've read. Most firms I've spoken with do not allow split summers and I've not heard anybody at a firm I've spoken with encourage me to speak with another firm in the area. I have been told that some firms will allow you to go to a different office within the same firm, but not that they will gladly allow you to go off to another firm.

Simply put, you're mistaken. While most firms don't allow splitting summers, this is different. In this situation, you'll work your full 1L summer at Firm A, then work a "full" 2L summer (like 10 weeks) at Firm B, then finish the summer (~4 weeks) back at Firm A. This is not splitting because you are not missing any time from Firm B, and Firm A has already seen you for a whole summer, and therefore does not need an entire second summer to judge whether or not you should receive an offer. At the end of your 2L summer, assuming you now have 2 offers, you choose which you prefer. Any 1L firm that says you have to stay with them and not do OCI looking for a second SA position would just look extraordinarily weak, and basically seem afraid to compete with other firms. While this may be the case in rare situations, everyone I know who did biglaw their 1L summer is doing their 2L summer like this.

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thesealocust
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Re: Do firms allow 1L SAs to take days off for Fall OCI?

Postby thesealocust » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:47 pm

aPosseAdEsse wrote:This is just a hypothetical situation/question.

If you're hired to work as a 1L SA for say 10 weeks, and that period will run into the Fall OCI week, will firms generally allow the 1Ls to take a few days off to participate?

I suppose the compromise would be to find a way to do the screening interviews in the evening, but what if your 1L OCI is in a different city? I imagine this is a little awkward in that most firms want their 1Ls to return as 2Ls, and of course most students are hoping to return as 2Ls, but it wouldn't be prudent to close the door on all other options.


lol wut?

No, you stop working at your firm before OCI. There is almost no conceivable exception to that rule. Even if you fall in love with your 1L firm and wouldn't dare work elsewhere, (1) you won't know if you even have an offer to come back - full time post law school, 2L summer, part time, or in any other circumstance - until your exit interview from your first summer, and (2) you certainly won't know if you LIKE it there until you've WORKED there which means it makes no sense to sacrifice even a moment of fall recruiting in order to work at your 1L firm.

It isn't awkward at all. During whatever point in time you negotiate with your 1L firm, you say "I have OCI beginning (day), I will have to stop working before (that day)" and your firm will say "that is perfectly normal and understandable" and then you'll do body shots at a fancy wine bar or something.

What you may not realize is that most firms are very, very flexible about dates. All law schools have slightly different schedules and all law students have slightly different commitments. But no firm would expect you to work through OCI, and no student should ever consider doing so.

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
Sup Kid wrote:Most firms want their 1L SAs to return for 4-6 weeks during their 2L summer, and encourage them to try out a different firm for the other half of the summer. Also, if its a 10-week SA position, it is highly unlikely that it will run into the second week of August, which is when most OCI things begin.


Disclaimer: I'm a 0L.

I must say that the above statement is completely contradictory to everything I've been told by recruiters and from what I've read. Most firms I've spoken with do not allow split summers and I've not heard anybody at a firm I've spoken with encourage me to speak with another firm in the area. I have been told that some firms will allow you to go to a different office within the same firm, but not that they will gladly allow you to go off to another firm.


ScrabbleChamp: Most firms don't allow split summers, but many (almost all in my limited experience) firms that take on 1Ls request, offer, or require a return for 4-6 weeks during the 2L summer. As has been described above, those are not incompatible views. It can vary based on the firm though. Many firms that commonly take on 1Ls do so because they 'lose' when competing with major city major firms with opulent programs. To them, getting 1Ls and offering/requesting/requiring a short-term return 2L summer is an effective means of getting associates who would otherwise not give the firm a second thought.

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A'nold
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Re: Do firms allow 1L SAs to take days off for Fall OCI?

Postby A'nold » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:56 pm

I only read the title and I cannot understand how this would even be a question..... :?: :?

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Do firms allow 1L SAs to take days off for Fall OCI?

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:59 pm

ScrabbleChamp: Most firms don't allow split summers, but many (almost all in my limited experience) firms that take on 1Ls request, offer, or require a return for 4-6 weeks during the 2L summer. As has been described above, those are not incompatible views. It can vary based on the firm though. Many firms that commonly take on 1Ls do so because they 'lose' when competing with major city major firms with opulent programs. To them, getting 1Ls and offering/requesting/requiring a short-term return 2L summer is an effective means of getting associates who would otherwise not give the firm a second thought.


Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense.

Nicholas Nickleby
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Re: Do firms allow 1L SAs to take days off for Fall OCI?

Postby Nicholas Nickleby » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:31 pm

I'm assuming you mean OCI that takes place the week(s) before 2L fall starts. If you're lucky enough to get a paid position after your 1L summer if will almost certainly end before your school's OCI. If it doesn't, I would recommend asking for an end date before your school's OCI.

aPosseAdEsse
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Re: Do firms allow 1L SAs to take days off for Fall OCI?

Postby aPosseAdEsse » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:42 pm

Yes, 1L work conflicting with 2L OCI.

To be clear, I understand that for my question to make sense you have to assume that such a conflict can exist. I'm sure that such an overlap is possible.

The more I think about it, it seems to me that if the firm didn't want to allow the 1L SA to leave early (as suggested above), then it would be reasonable for it to allow the student to take a week off and return to finish up the required time committment.

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thesealocust
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Re: Do firms allow 1L SAs to take days off for Fall OCI?

Postby thesealocust » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:56 pm

aPosseAdEsse wrote:Yes, 1L work conflicting with 2L OCI.

To be clear, I understand that for my question to make sense you have to assume that such a conflict can exist. I'm sure that such an overlap is possible.

The more I think about it, it seems to me that if the firm didn't want to allow the 1L SA to leave early (as suggested above), then it would be reasonable for it to allow the student to take a week off and return to finish up the required time committment.


And return?

The only schools that have OCI -> [break] -> School are schools where the expectation is the break between OCI and school is used for callbacks from OCI.

What you're talking about makes absolutely no sense.

Are you talking about the Loyola patent fair or something?
Last edited by thesealocust on Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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wiseowl
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Re: Do firms allow 1L SAs to take days off for Fall OCI?

Postby wiseowl » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:12 pm

thesealocust wrote:
aPosseAdEsse wrote:Yes, 1L work conflicting with 2L OCI.

To be clear, I understand that for my question to make sense you have to assume that such a conflict can exist. I'm sure that such an overlap is possible.

The more I think about it, it seems to me that if the firm didn't want to allow the 1L SA to leave early (as suggested above), then it would be reasonable for it to allow the student to take a week off and return to finish up the required time committment.


And return?

The only schools that have OCI [break] School are schools where the expectation is the break between OCI is used for callbacks from OCI.

What you're talking about makes absolutely no sense.

Are you talking about the Loyola patent fair or something?



The patent fairs are the only time this could conceivably be an issue. I made sure my work ended the week before...but if that's not possible, you may just have to ditch work and go. Far too important not to.

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vamedic03
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Re: Do firms allow 1L SAs to take days off for Fall OCI?

Postby vamedic03 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:05 pm

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
Sup Kid wrote:Most firms want their 1L SAs to return for 4-6 weeks during their 2L summer, and encourage them to try out a different firm for the other half of the summer. Also, if its a 10-week SA position, it is highly unlikely that it will run into the second week of August, which is when most OCI things begin.


Disclaimer: I'm a 0L.

I must say that the above statement is completely contradictory to everything I've been told by recruiters and from what I've read. Most firms I've spoken with do not allow split summers and I've not heard anybody at a firm I've spoken with encourage me to speak with another firm in the area. I have been told that some firms will allow you to go to a different office within the same firm, but not that they will gladly allow you to go off to another firm.


0L's probably shouldn't be posting legal employment advice. I don't say this to be snarky, and I appreciate your desire to help and your being upfront about being a 0L. But, unless you have specialized knowledge - i.e., you were a legal recruiter - please don't post legal employment advice. As it stands now, there is a large mix of good and bad quality advice. Typically, 0L's only add to the bad quality advice.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Do firms allow 1L SAs to take days off for Fall OCI?

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:09 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
ScrabbleChamp wrote:
Sup Kid wrote:Most firms want their 1L SAs to return for 4-6 weeks during their 2L summer, and encourage them to try out a different firm for the other half of the summer. Also, if its a 10-week SA position, it is highly unlikely that it will run into the second week of August, which is when most OCI things begin.


Disclaimer: I'm a 0L.

I must say that the above statement is completely contradictory to everything I've been told by recruiters and from what I've read. Most firms I've spoken with do not allow split summers and I've not heard anybody at a firm I've spoken with encourage me to speak with another firm in the area. I have been told that some firms will allow you to go to a different office within the same firm, but not that they will gladly allow you to go off to another firm.


0L's probably shouldn't be posting legal employment advice. I don't say this to be snarky, and I appreciate your desire to help and your being upfront about being a 0L. But, unless you have specialized knowledge - i.e., you were a legal recruiter - please don't post legal employment advice. As it stands now, there is a large mix of good and bad quality advice. Typically, 0L's only add to the bad quality advice.


I realized after I posted how I was probably contributing to the plethora of misinformation that exists. I should have posted my response in the form of a question, rather than a statement. I apologize and your request is duly noted and I will comply.

On a side note, the military "Aye Aye" is a shortened version of "I understand and I will comply."

imchuckbass58
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Re: Do firms allow 1L SAs to take days off for Fall OCI?

Postby imchuckbass58 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:49 pm

aPosseAdEsse wrote:Yes, 1L work conflicting with 2L OCI.

To be clear, I understand that for my question to make sense you have to assume that such a conflict can exist. I'm sure that such an overlap is possible.

The more I think about it, it seems to me that if the firm didn't want to allow the 1L SA to leave early (as suggested above), then it would be reasonable for it to allow the student to take a week off and return to finish up the required time committment.


At many schools it is not possible for a conflict to exist. Many schools (including most of the T14) require that firms have summer programs that end before OCI begins in order for them to be eligible to recruit on campus. As a result, most summer programs end in July or at the latest the first week in August.




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