For those who have gone through 2L OCI

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Anonymous User
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For those who have gone through 2L OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:59 pm

Couple questions:

Do you need to bring a writing sample to each interview? Can grades be sufficient for a callback or are they at best necessary only? That is, you can still screw up the interview with top 5% at a T6? What is the protocol for callback interviews? Do you need to bring an official transcript with you? Or is it sent off directly from the school? How likely will an offer result from a callback if you're top 5% at a T6? I guess it depends on the firm ranking? So, say V5 or V10.

Thanks!

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HugerThanSoup
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Re: For those who have gone through 2L OCI

Postby HugerThanSoup » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Couple questions:

Do you need to bring a writing sample to each interview? Can grades be sufficient for a callback or are they at best necessary only? That is, you can still screw up the interview with top 5% at a T6? What is the protocol for callback interviews? Do you need to bring an official transcript with you? Or is it sent off directly from the school? How likely will an offer result from a callback if you're top 5% at a T6? I guess it depends on the firm ranking? So, say V5 or V10.

Thanks!


Bring enough resumes, writing samples, transcripts, list of references, etc... for each interview that you have scheduled. You definitely won't go through all of them, but you never know what an interviewer might as for.

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Kohinoor
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Re: For those who have gone through 2L OCI

Postby Kohinoor » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Couple questions:

Do you need to bring a writing sample to each interview? Can grades be sufficient for a callback or are they at best necessary only? That is, you can still screw up the interview with top 5% at a T6? What is the protocol for callback interviews? Do you need to bring an official transcript with you? Or is it sent off directly from the school? How likely will an offer result from a callback if you're top 5% at a T6? I guess it depends on the firm ranking? So, say V5 or V10.

Thanks!

I never had my writing sample requested for a Vault interview.
Grades are never sufficient for a callback. Even if they want to make sure you're not a rapist, you still have to not be a rapist.
You bring your official transcript to the callback.
Depends on how well you interview.

2LLLL
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Re: For those who have gone through 2L OCI

Postby 2LLLL » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:44 pm

Some firms will want writing samples, some will not. Bring copies just in case. Bring copies of everything, you never know when you'll get a disorganized interviewer that doesn't have your materials handy.

As far as grades, it depends. There certainly are firms (and individual interviewers) that will put more credit on grades, and give you a callback as long as you can put up an acceptable screening interview. I got callbacks solely based on my resume where the screening interviewer talked for the entire 20 minutes and never even asked a question. There will also be firms and interviewers that you really have to wow. You can always ruin an interview with extremely unprofessional/anti-social behavior even if you're #1 at Yale. The best advice is to thoroughly prepare for every interview and treat it like it is for your dream job, regardless of how strong your grades are for that firm.

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Re: For those who have gone through 2L OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Couple questions:

Do you need to bring a writing sample to each interview? Can grades be sufficient for a callback or are they at best necessary only? That is, you can still screw up the interview with top 5% at a T6? What is the protocol for callback interviews? Do you need to bring an official transcript with you? Or is it sent off directly from the school? How likely will an offer result from a callback if you're top 5% at a T6? I guess it depends on the firm ranking? So, say V5 or V10.

Thanks!


1) Yes, you need to bring a writing sample to each interview, because they may ask. But that doesn't mean you need one for every interview, you just have to keep a few on you. I did 20 or so screening interviews and was asked twice I think.

2) The effect grades can have on CB and offers varies tremendously between firms. Grades are NEVER sufficient for either a callback or an offer, but they can get close. The thing is firms aren't stupid, and so they don't want to wind up in a position where the same 30 people from your school get offers at 10 different firms and then each firm only gets 3 candidates of the 30 offers they made. So cuts will be made, and even extremely qualified candidates will have a fairly chaotic mix of callbacks and offers. Even firms that are very picky about grades usually also have certain 'types' they are looking for (or looking to avoid) which accounts for some of that.

Some examples from the V10: Cleary has a huge international focus when it comes to recruiting, S&C cares a lot about high grades even from the best schools, Davis Polk historically puts more weight on the callback / 'fit' stage and will often give fewer offers after CBs than other firms, Cravath makes you pick litigation or corporate very early in the interview process, Covington requires a writing sample - reads it - and checks your references, W&C has a disproportionate number of people with work experience, especially military, etc. It's hard for any one person, even with a perfect resume, to get a callback and offer from every firm they would want.

In my experience, the 'perfect storm' type candidates would convert more than 50% of their screening interviews into callbacks, and 50 to 75% of their callbacks into offers. Once again though, that varied a lot based on things like geography. More people were getting offers from 70-80% of the NYC V10 than were getting offers from 70-80% of the desirable / prestigious firms in DC, for example.

Really the only people who got everything had perfect transcripts, maturity, and something of an X factor going for them (strong political connections, compelling personal story, from an underrepresented group, uniquely relevant work experience, etc.). "Just" being top 5% (or top 1%) at a T6 isn't close to enough to get CBs/Offers everywhere, though such a candidate would be likely to get many.

3) You bring a copy of your transcript to the interview. At some schools they will already have it, but like every other document you keep a copy with you in case they've lost it or need another.

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Re: For those who have gone through 2L OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:56 pm

agree with above posts, especially the one immediately above.

just wanted to throw some reassurance that if you have top grades from a top school you will likely get a top firm job so don't sweat it. I'm sure you'll take the interviewing seriously. You will wear a suit and shoes. You will smile and be polite. And most importantly you will know enough about each firm to give coherent intelligent answers. Law firm interviews are probably the easiest kinds of interviews there are. If you can talk with a stranger about yourself for 20 minutes without being crazy you'll be fine.

cornellbeez
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Re: For those who have gone through 2L OCI

Postby cornellbeez » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:00 am

- Bring resumes, writing samples, lists of references, transcripts. More likely than not you will not be asked to provide anything except the resume (and possibly transcript, depending on whether your school provides transcripts directly to the firms) at the initial interview stage.
- Grades are not sufficient, but being top 5% at a t6 means that you have greater leeway for not meshing with your interviewers.
- My school provided official transcripts for us to bring to the interview.
- Offer rates vary by firm. Some really high ranked firms have higher offer rates because they are so grade-selective. For - lower ranked vault firms, it may range from anywhere between 1/6 to 1/3. The higher your grades, the better your chances for callbacks and offers.
Last edited by cornellbeez on Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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JazzOne
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Re: For those who have gone through 2L OCI

Postby JazzOne » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:13 am

OP:

Most firms will not ask you for a writing sample, but that doesn't mean you can't provide one if you have something strong. I was invited to join a very selective legal research organization, and I researched and wrote an article on oil & gas law for a practicing attorney. Very few of my classmates had any writing sample of that caliber, so I made it a point to ask partners if I could submit it. Very few of them actually read it, but the partner who finally offered me a job asked me a lot of questions about it in the interview.

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Lawlcat
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Re: For those who have gone through 2L OCI

Postby Lawlcat » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:05 am

It seems to me that grades don't matter quite as much as one might think. Really, it varies firm by firm.

I would suggest bringing writing samples to every interview just in case. (If you have a fantastic writing sample, you can even try to foist it on them unsolicited, as noted.) Bring official transcripts, but I'd probably avoid launching into a transcript pitch as you hand it over. I really think your number one goal with the OCI interviewers is to come across as friendly and intelligent. There are people back at the firm's hiring department who will pore over your resume and transcript for qualifications. You just want these two people to recommend bringing you back to the firm to meet some others. With your grades, that shouldn't be too hard, but every little bit helps. (By way of karmic return: don't become one of those jerks who hangs on to fifteen bajillion offers.)

Perhaps I'm wrong on this, but isn't it a bit inaccurate to talk about V5 or V10 as though you were speaking about law schools? I'm not sure there's some kind of smooth sliding-scale in terms of difficulty securing a position, not least because law firms aren't ranked by USNWR and don't gain or lose points based on the average class rank of their SAs.

jimmyd11011
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Re: For those who have gone through 2L OCI

Postby jimmyd11011 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:23 am

What kind of references are we talking about here for our list of references? About how many are needed? And should they be coming mostly (only?) from our 1L summer job? Is it a make-you-or-break-you kind of thing? I imagine it wouldn't necessarily be easy for people straight from undergrad to have good, non-1L-summer work references.

sullidop
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Re: For those who have gone through 2L OCI

Postby sullidop » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:46 am

This is way too early to be worrying about OCI

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Blindmelon
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Re: For those who have gone through 2L OCI

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:19 am

sullidop wrote:This is way too early to be worrying about OCI


This.

Also, Vault ranking does not correlate to selectivity, so V30, V50, non-vault is a pretty bad indicator of the strength of your app to the firm.

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Re: For those who have gone through 2L OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Couple questions:

Do you need to bring a writing sample to each interview? Can grades be sufficient for a callback or are they at best necessary only? That is, you can still screw up the interview with top 5% at a T6? What is the protocol for callback interviews? Do you need to bring an official transcript with you? Or is it sent off directly from the school? How likely will an offer result from a callback if you're top 5% at a T6? I guess it depends on the firm ranking? So, say V5 or V10.

Thanks!


I just want to add- yes, you can screw up an interview if you're in the top 5%- even if you're in the top 1%, interviewing skills are very important. Grades might be good enough to get you a callback but its the interview that gets you the job. I'm not in the top 5% by any means (top 25% at a T14) and I didn't get an offer from OCI, and I know many people with higher GPAs who didn't get offers either, and some with lower GPAs who were successful with OCI. So needless to say, don't coast on your grades alone.




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