Boalt class rank approximation thread

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Anonymous User
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Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:34 pm

Boalties: come here to list any info you have as to what grades are needed for ballpark rank zones (i.e. median, top third, top 20%, etc).

I've heard that median roughly equals 2 or 3 H's (and the rest P's) after two semesters. I've also heard that top 10% requires a few HH's and the rest H's.

Not sure if any of this is accurate. Please share any info you've heard.

TheFriendlyBarber
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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby TheFriendlyBarber » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:26 pm

Just to get some more info out there:

First Year:
- Top 10% = HH
- Next 30% = H

Subsequent Years:
- Top 15% = HH
- Next 30% = H

"[E]ach year a few Boalt students whose exam performance places them at or above the class median in their first-year courses fail to achieve a single Honors grade."

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:33 am

@TheFriendlyBarber: All Berk students know what the individual grades mean. I think the purpose of this thread is rather to estimate what sort of transcript is required for certain class ranks.

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screwsandboalts
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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby screwsandboalts » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:41 am

"
"[E]ach year a few Boalt students whose exam performance places them at or above the class median in their first-year courses fail to achieve a single Honors grade."



i dont get it...

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worldtraveler
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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby worldtraveler » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:07 am

screwsandboalts wrote:"
"[E]ach year a few Boalt students whose exam performance places them at or above the class median in their first-year courses fail to achieve a single Honors grade."



i dont get it...


You can be above median and get a P. You do that a few times and your grades look worse than they should.

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:23 am

worldtraveler wrote:
screwsandboalts wrote:"
"[E]ach year a few Boalt students whose exam performance places them at or above the class median in their first-year courses fail to achieve a single Honors grade."



i dont get it...


You can be above median and get a P. You do that a few times and your grades look worse than they should.


O wise 2L, have you any class rank insights to share with us?

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby Lawl Shcool » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:42 am

HH =5
H = 3
P = 2

Weight for credit hours and calculate like a gpa.


Say, if you have: HH for 4 credits, H for 3 credits, and P's for 2 2-credit courses, your GPA is

(5*4 +3*3 + 2*2 +2*2) / (4+3+2+2) = 3.36

Rumor has it that GPA
> 3 = top 1/3
2.6 - 3 = middle 1/3
<2.6 = bottom 1/3.
In addition, order of the coif is usually > 3.9.

No one knows the actual cut-off.



From:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=138931

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IzziesGal
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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby IzziesGal » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:50 pm

We don't have class ranks anymore. The administration did away with this recently. The policy used to be that we would get ranked, but we could only get the rank when applying for clerkships and could only list the rank on clerkship resumes (anything else would be an honor code violation). Now, we don't even have that. If you're applying for a clerkship, you have something called a "distinction" that you can put on your resume. I don't remember the particulars, but top 10% of the class gets X distinction, top 25% gets Y, etc. It's supposedly to help make the clerkship process better for Boalt students. No GPAs and no ranks.

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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby truevines » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:27 am

IzziesGal wrote:We don't have class ranks anymore. The administration did away with this recently. The policy used to be that we would get ranked, but we could only get the rank when applying for clerkships and could only list the rank on clerkship resumes (anything else would be an honor code violation). Now, we don't even have that. If you're applying for a clerkship, you have something called a "distinction" that you can put on your resume. I don't remember the particulars, but top 10% of the class gets X distinction, top 25% gets Y, etc. It's supposedly to help make the clerkship process better for Boalt students. No GPAs and no ranks.


Under Academic Rule 3.07, academic honors are awarded annually based on academic performance (GPA) as follows:
(1) First-Year (Second-Year, Third-Year) High Distinction (top 10%)
(2) First-Year (Second-Year, Third-Year) Distinction (top 25%)
(3) First-Year (Second-Year, Third-Year) Boalt Scholar (one of top three students)

The only permissible disclosure of these honors is for the judicial clerkship process or later in your career if you are applying for an academic position.


No more rank disclosure. I feel this is suicidal for a non-HYS school.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:40 pm

truevines wrote:
IzziesGal wrote:We don't have class ranks anymore. The administration did away with this recently. The policy used to be that we would get ranked, but we could only get the rank when applying for clerkships and could only list the rank on clerkship resumes (anything else would be an honor code violation). Now, we don't even have that. If you're applying for a clerkship, you have something called a "distinction" that you can put on your resume. I don't remember the particulars, but top 10% of the class gets X distinction, top 25% gets Y, etc. It's supposedly to help make the clerkship process better for Boalt students. No GPAs and no ranks.


Under Academic Rule 3.07, academic honors are awarded annually based on academic performance (GPA) as follows:
(1) First-Year (Second-Year, Third-Year) High Distinction (top 10%)
(2) First-Year (Second-Year, Third-Year) Distinction (top 25%)
(3) First-Year (Second-Year, Third-Year) Boalt Scholar (one of top three students)

The only permissible disclosure of these honors is for the judicial clerkship process or later in your career if you are applying for an academic position.


No more rank disclosure. I feel this is suicidal for a non-HYS school.


I would love to bring this thread back to life. As a 0L who will likely be at Boalt this coming fall, I am curious to see how this system is shaking out. Do students seem receptive to it? If I understand this system correctly, it seems as if anyone outside of the top 25% doesn't have to worry about/doesn't get credit for their standing in the class.

I am most curious about how employers will view this. Outside of earning "High Distinction" or "Boalt Scholar" honors, I am guessing that law review, journal, and clinical work will be what sets one apart on paper?

Sorry if I sound a little confused--I am. I'm just trying to figure this out as an outsider looking in (like most firms, I'm guessing?).

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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby worldtraveler » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:57 pm

BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
truevines wrote:
IzziesGal wrote:We don't have class ranks anymore. The administration did away with this recently. The policy used to be that we would get ranked, but we could only get the rank when applying for clerkships and could only list the rank on clerkship resumes (anything else would be an honor code violation). Now, we don't even have that. If you're applying for a clerkship, you have something called a "distinction" that you can put on your resume. I don't remember the particulars, but top 10% of the class gets X distinction, top 25% gets Y, etc. It's supposedly to help make the clerkship process better for Boalt students. No GPAs and no ranks.


Under Academic Rule 3.07, academic honors are awarded annually based on academic performance (GPA) as follows:
(1) First-Year (Second-Year, Third-Year) High Distinction (top 10%)
(2) First-Year (Second-Year, Third-Year) Distinction (top 25%)
(3) First-Year (Second-Year, Third-Year) Boalt Scholar (one of top three students)

The only permissible disclosure of these honors is for the judicial clerkship process or later in your career if you are applying for an academic position.


No more rank disclosure. I feel this is suicidal for a non-HYS school.


I would love to bring this thread back to life. As a 0L who will likely be at Boalt this coming fall, I am curious to see how this system is shaking out. Do students seem receptive to it? If I understand this system correctly, it seems as if anyone outside of the top 25% doesn't have to worry about/doesn't get credit for their standing in the class.

I am most curious about how employers will view this. Outside of earning "High Distinction" or "Boalt Scholar" honors, I am guessing that law review, journal, and clinical work will be what sets one apart on paper?

Sorry if I sound a little confused--I am. I'm just trying to figure this out as an outsider looking in (like most firms, I'm guessing?).


I'm a 2L and I didn't even know about it. That should give you an idea of how much students care about it.

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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:11 am

Even if there are now only three distinctions available (25%, 10%, "top three"), I would still be very curious to know what may be required to make those cuts.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:01 pm

worldtraveler wrote:I'm a 2L and I didn't even know about it. That should give you an idea of how much students care about it.


Okay, maybe you didn't know about it, but how are firms handling it? Maybe it's too early to know yet, but maybe students should care about it.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby Lawl Shcool » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:33 pm

BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:I'm a 2L and I didn't even know about it. That should give you an idea of how much students care about it.


Okay, maybe you didn't know about it, but how are firms handling it? Maybe it's too early to know yet, but maybe students should care about it.


Can't tell firms about it, you can only reveal it for clerkships.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:41 pm

Lawl Shcool wrote:
BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:I'm a 2L and I didn't even know about it. That should give you an idea of how much students care about it.


Okay, maybe you didn't know about it, but how are firms handling it? Maybe it's too early to know yet, but maybe students should care about it.


Can't tell firms about it, you can only reveal it for clerkships.


Wow, sorry for the RC fail.

So, just to recap: When applying to firms, everyone's academic record (class grades, that is) will look exactly the same. No firm will know your grades. The only thing that will distinguish you from your classmates are the other things you do (LR, journals, clinics, etc.).

Or, will the firms see your transcripts and be able to count the HH's, H's, and P's? If this is the case, then allowing students to only reveal their distinctions for clerkships is stupid (since the firm can figure it out themselves).

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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby truevines » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:48 pm

BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
Lawl Shcool wrote:
BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:I'm a 2L and I didn't even know about it. That should give you an idea of how much students care about it.


Okay, maybe you didn't know about it, but how are firms handling it? Maybe it's too early to know yet, but maybe students should care about it.


Can't tell firms about it, you can only reveal it for clerkships.


Wow, sorry for the RC fail.

So, just to recap: When applying to firms, everyone's academic record (class grades, that is) will look exactly the same. No firm will know your grades. The only thing that will distinguish you from your classmates are the other things you do (LR, journals, clinics, etc.).

Or, will the firms see your transcripts and be able to count the HH's, H's, and P's? If this is the case, then allowing students to only reveal their distinctions for clerkships is stupid (since the firm can figure it out themselves).


You can and you prolly need to give a copy of transcript to firms you interview with. They will know your grades. In fact, one of the elite firms recommended that a strong candidate should have more HHs than Ps (not sure if they really enforce this rule).

In addition, AmJur, Prosser, Best Brief and Advocacy awards will be noted on the transcripts and you can put those awards on your resume for any purpose.

I read those three honor distinctions to be: If you don't make top 25% or higher, don't bother to apply for clerkship.

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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:57 pm

truevines wrote:You can and you prolly need to give a copy of transcript to firms you interview with. They will know your grades. In fact, one of the elite firms recommended that a strong candidate should have more HHs than Ps (not sure if they really enforce this rule).

In addition, AmJur, Prosser, Best Brief and Advocacy awards will be noted on the transcripts and you can put those awards on your resume for any purpose.

I read those three honor distinctions to be: If you don't make top 25% or higher, don't bother to apply for clerkship.


This system seems pretty odd. Why be so secretive about the distinctions if firms will see your grades anyway? I'm guessing most/all firms doing OCI will be familiar with Berkeley's grading system and figure out a way to determine relative class ranking anyway, no?

One last question--do profs give actual letter/numerical grades that then just get turned into HH's, H's, P's? If so, then ranking could still theoretically be done if administration ever decided to change this system. If not, then profs probably really like this system as it allows them to (easily) determine the top 25% then just give everyone else P's.

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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:42 pm

BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
truevines wrote:You can and you prolly need to give a copy of transcript to firms you interview with. They will know your grades. In fact, one of the elite firms recommended that a strong candidate should have more HHs than Ps (not sure if they really enforce this rule).

In addition, AmJur, Prosser, Best Brief and Advocacy awards will be noted on the transcripts and you can put those awards on your resume for any purpose.

I read those three honor distinctions to be: If you don't make top 25% or higher, don't bother to apply for clerkship.


This system seems pretty odd. Why be so secretive about the distinctions if firms will see your grades anyway? I'm guessing most/all firms doing OCI will be familiar with Berkeley's grading system and figure out a way to determine relative class ranking anyway, no?

One last question--do profs give actual letter/numerical grades that then just get turned into HH's, H's, P's? If so, then ranking could still theoretically be done if administration ever decided to change this system. If not, then profs probably really like this system as it allows them to (easily) determine the top 25% then just give everyone else P's.


You really don't understand the grading system. Someone listed it in the first couple posts of the thread. You never get actual grades, just a HH, H, or P.
You can distribute transcripts at OCI or for other applications but outside of clerkiship apps. It's obvious that a transcript with HHs is better than one with Ps but they won't know your exact rank.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:03 pm

.
Last edited by BackToTheOldHouse on Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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IzziesGal
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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby IzziesGal » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:13 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
truevines wrote:
IzziesGal wrote:We don't have class ranks anymore. The administration did away with this recently. The policy used to be that we would get ranked, but we could only get the rank when applying for clerkships and could only list the rank on clerkship resumes (anything else would be an honor code violation). Now, we don't even have that. If you're applying for a clerkship, you have something called a "distinction" that you can put on your resume. I don't remember the particulars, but top 10% of the class gets X distinction, top 25% gets Y, etc. It's supposedly to help make the clerkship process better for Boalt students. No GPAs and no ranks.


Under Academic Rule 3.07, academic honors are awarded annually based on academic performance (GPA) as follows:
(1) First-Year (Second-Year, Third-Year) High Distinction (top 10%)
(2) First-Year (Second-Year, Third-Year) Distinction (top 25%)
(3) First-Year (Second-Year, Third-Year) Boalt Scholar (one of top three students)

The only permissible disclosure of these honors is for the judicial clerkship process or later in your career if you are applying for an academic position.


No more rank disclosure. I feel this is suicidal for a non-HYS school.


I would love to bring this thread back to life. As a 0L who will likely be at Boalt this coming fall, I am curious to see how this system is shaking out. Do students seem receptive to it? If I understand this system correctly, it seems as if anyone outside of the top 25% doesn't have to worry about/doesn't get credit for their standing in the class.

I am most curious about how employers will view this. Outside of earning "High Distinction" or "Boalt Scholar" honors, I am guessing that law review, journal, and clinical work will be what sets one apart on paper?

Sorry if I sound a little confused--I am. I'm just trying to figure this out as an outsider looking in (like most firms, I'm guessing?).


I'm a 2L and I didn't even know about it. That should give you an idea of how much students care about it.


Ha - she's right. I found out about this when talking to the CDO about clerkships. Basically, this will help - because judges filter students based on percentiles or ranks in most cases. Then they will look at the "does not rank" filtering option. A student who is in this category will pop up on the judge's radar, whereas she would not if she was ranked and is outside the top 10% etc. So it helps for judges who also filter based on "does not rank." Of course, the judge will notice that you don't have the distinction, but you at least pop up in the system this way. If this makes no sense, I apologize - it's secondhand info from the CDO.

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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:32 pm

Grades also are not everything at our school. I'm 2L in the top 25% and I will be chilling at my parents house while I'm unemployed this summer. Thank goodness I have parents who are willing to help me out.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Grades also are not everything at our school. I'm 2L in the top 25% and I will be chilling at my parents house while I'm unemployed this summer. Thank goodness I have parents who are willing to help me out.

Explain please. What did your job hunting consist of?

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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:45 pm

Got a handful of callbacks at OCI and got pwned, applied to around 50 different government positions and around 50 firms (around 10 in person interviews), got pwned. According to our CDO about 40% of our 2Ls have no job.

I don't really feel that bad though, there are people I know in the top 10% who cannot find work. Also should be nice to take a break off to relax :D .

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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:Got a handful of callbacks at OCI and got pwned, applied to around 50 different government positions and around 50 firms (around 10 in person interviews), got pwned. According to our CDO about 40% of our 2Ls have no job.

I don't really feel that bad though, there are people I know in the top 10% who cannot find work. Also should be nice to take a break off to relax :D .


Wow. I'm glad you're taking it so well, but this is a bit concerning. I guess those big SA positions are hard to nab. Looking back on your job hunt, is there anything you'd of done differently? Maybe networking, journal work, clinic work etc. ?

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Boalt class rank approximation thread

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:Got a handful of callbacks at OCI and got pwned, applied to around 50 different government positions and around 50 firms (around 10 in person interviews), got pwned. According to our CDO about 40% of our 2Ls have no job.

I don't really feel that bad though, there are people I know in the top 10% who cannot find work. Also should be nice to take a break off to relax :D .


is this a joke? 40%........




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