Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

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A'nold
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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby A'nold » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:29 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:This is to the GULC student who posted all the data points complete with people's UG backgrounds: I concur that UG matters in legal hiring. Does it matter more than grades? Nope. Is it going to be a tiebreaker, or possibly even a dealbreaker, when people have limited WE, or WE completely irrelevant to the legal profession? In my experience, this has often been the case.

I can't give you more than anecdotal information either, but the people I know who attended Ivies or top LACs usually pulled above their class ranks at OCI. Of course, there was often a correlation between top UG and possession of the type of work experience students from such a place could get, which would then make them more attractive to big law firms, but even among straight to LS people, I noticed it.

I am not saying my OCI issues stemmed from my unusual choice of background, but it certainly led to difficult questions about why I wanted to be here. In the end, I knew firms would only be interested if they could market my background to clients. This niche is a big one here in my city, obviously, but it's going to mean that a firm that has mostly large investment banks as clients is not going to hire me, even if the interviewer likes me as a person and thinks my grades suffice. I beat myself up over it because I thought it was my fault. Ironically, public interest employers were more willing to listen, because I could demonstrate genuine interest by volunteering a ton. They are usually much more likely to dig down on whether the applicant truly cares or is just doing PI as a fallback option. I didn't have to BS, because it meant much more to me.

The good news is that my exact challenges will be rare, but people who attended state UGs may face uphill battles with certain employers, and that is something you should know about. When dealing with the prestige-obsessed, grades still speak loudly, but you also might learn you don't really want to deal with the prestige-obsessed.

See, that's one of the reasons it was imperative for me to attend my transfer law school, even though it is costing me about double the price. I went to a state UG here and MANY of the firms/gov./etc. have alumni from both my state UG AND my law school. I think this will prove helpful and it has already gotten one partner to "pass my resume along" to the hiring partners. If I had transferred (I did not get in here) to, say, WUSTL, I think I would be having an even tougher time right now. I've lived my entire life in this state, other than my 1 year away for 1L.

mar12
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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby mar12 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:38 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:I can't give you more than anecdotal information either, but the people I know who attended Ivies or top LACs usually pulled above their class ranks at OCI. Of course, there was often a correlation between top UG and possession of the type of work experience students from such a place could get, which would then make them more attractive to big law firms, but even among straight to LS people, I noticed it.

The good news is that my exact challenges will be rare, but people who attended state UGs may face uphill battles with certain employers, and that is something you should know about. When dealing with the prestige-obsessed, grades still speak loudly, but you also might learn you don't really want to deal with the prestige-obsessed.


A couple of thoughts: PI is not a fall-back option for first years unless you hang out your own shingle. It is very hard for even the highest-ranked graduates to get hired at a PI firm. In those firms there is no client to pay an hourly rate, so they eat the training--thus most dont hire first years. From my law class of 300+ I know of 3 who got hired at PI and all 3 clerked (not summer associate) first. Your grades can outshine your undergrad institution. Do what you have to do to make the top 10%. There is some good info on doing well posted at this law school information website. If you are not in a T14 law school, make sure to get into a well-respected school for the region you want to practice law in. Here in TX, UT has better employment prospects than UC, UM, or UPA.

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A'nold
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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby A'nold » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:44 pm

mar12 wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:I can't give you more than anecdotal information either, but the people I know who attended Ivies or top LACs usually pulled above their class ranks at OCI. Of course, there was often a correlation between top UG and possession of the type of work experience students from such a place could get, which would then make them more attractive to big law firms, but even among straight to LS people, I noticed it.

The good news is that my exact challenges will be rare, but people who attended state UGs may face uphill battles with certain employers, and that is something you should know about. When dealing with the prestige-obsessed, grades still speak loudly, but you also might learn you don't really want to deal with the prestige-obsessed.


A couple of thoughts: PI is not a fall-back option for first years unless you hang out your own shingle. It is very hard for even the highest-ranked graduates to get hired at a PI firm. In those firms there is no client to pay an hourly rate, so they eat the training--thus most dont hire first years. From my law class of 300+ I know of 3 who got hired at PI and all 3 clerked (not summer associate) first. Your grades can outshine your undergrad institution. Do what you have to do to make the top 10%. There is some good info on doing well posted at this law school information website. If you are not in a T14 law school, make sure to get into a well-respected school for the region you want to practice law in. Here in TX, UT has better employment prospects than UC, UM, or UPA.


Before lecturing someone you might want to consider who it is you are talking to. She is a 2L going to school in the city she plans on living into the very distant future.

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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby fatduck » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:47 pm

A'nold wrote:
mar12 wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:I can't give you more than anecdotal information either, but the people I know who attended Ivies or top LACs usually pulled above their class ranks at OCI. Of course, there was often a correlation between top UG and possession of the type of work experience students from such a place could get, which would then make them more attractive to big law firms, but even among straight to LS people, I noticed it.

The good news is that my exact challenges will be rare, but people who attended state UGs may face uphill battles with certain employers, and that is something you should know about. When dealing with the prestige-obsessed, grades still speak loudly, but you also might learn you don't really want to deal with the prestige-obsessed.


A couple of thoughts: PI is not a fall-back option for first years unless you hang out your own shingle. It is very hard for even the highest-ranked graduates to get hired at a PI firm. In those firms there is no client to pay an hourly rate, so they eat the training--thus most dont hire first years. From my law class of 300+ I know of 3 who got hired at PI and all 3 clerked (not summer associate) first. Your grades can outshine your undergrad institution. Do what you have to do to make the top 10%. There is some good info on doing well posted at this law school information website. If you are not in a T14 law school, make sure to get into a well-respected school for the region you want to practice law in. Here in TX, UT has better employment prospects than UC, UM, or UPA.


Before lecturing someone you might want to consider who it is you are talking to. She is a 2L going to school in the city she plans on living into the very distant future.


pretty sure he's just subtly spamming his "law school coach" website everywhere

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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby rman1201 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:48 pm

A'nold wrote:
mar12 wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:I can't give you more than anecdotal information either, but the people I know who attended Ivies or top LACs usually pulled above their class ranks at OCI. Of course, there was often a correlation between top UG and possession of the type of work experience students from such a place could get, which would then make them more attractive to big law firms, but even among straight to LS people, I noticed it.

The good news is that my exact challenges will be rare, but people who attended state UGs may face uphill battles with certain employers, and that is something you should know about. When dealing with the prestige-obsessed, grades still speak loudly, but you also might learn you don't really want to deal with the prestige-obsessed.


A couple of thoughts: PI is not a fall-back option for first years unless you hang out your own shingle. It is very hard for even the highest-ranked graduates to get hired at a PI firm. In those firms there is no client to pay an hourly rate, so they eat the training--thus most dont hire first years. From my law class of 300+ I know of 3 who got hired at PI and all 3 clerked (not summer associate) first. Your grades can outshine your undergrad institution. Do what you have to do to make the top 10%. There is some good info on doing well posted at this law school information website. If you are not in a T14 law school, make sure to get into a well-respected school for the region you want to practice law in. Here in TX, UT has better employment prospects than UC, UM, or UPA.


Before lecturing someone you might want to consider who it is you are talking to. She is a 2L going to school in the city she plans on living into the very distant future.


That user's sole intent here is to promote their website, as their profile and post history demonstrates.

-stupid duck beat me to it

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Veyron
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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby Veyron » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:51 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
Veyron wrote:And hao people SCREAMED when I said that GULC was getting pwnd!

It was more the way you said it, IIRC. The obviously falsified descriptions of GULC students wandering around with dazed, beaten looks in their eyes, etc. etc.

What sort of experience do you have in litigation? It sounds like it's quite extensive if you're so confident of the personality required.


Hmmmm, well, before law school my firm was involved in some pretty massive litigation. I didn't participate much but I got to observe from the client's POV.

Before law school, I spoke to many biglaw and botique litigators about their field. I had a good amount of access, coming as I did from the client's side.

Both in and before law school I've gone out of my way to meet litigation partners and discuss their field with them. Some of these conversations have been quite extensive, running for many hours.

Basically, I've found that I get along really, really well with litigators. If you find my personality abrasive, this should give you pause.

I hope this answers your question.

As far as the GULC thing, I really, really have nothing against GULC. If anything, I envy them their faculty. Its just I really have seen the pwnage firsthand and they seem to be weathering it especially poorly. You are correct that my descriptions of the "thousand yard gazes" was a bit of literary fancy, but it reflects the texture of my friends' experiences. I'm not trying to shit on the kids there - I think that the school is doing them a disservice.
Last edited by Veyron on Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby OperaSoprano » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:54 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:IME UG doesn't matter unless you attended HYP or equivalent.


At my school, people at other top UGs (but not HYP) still outperformed those from no-name UGs. Biggest bump for the very top UG schools, but it wasn't only about them. I do think it might also have had to do with the access those schools provided to things like V10 paralegal jobs post graduation, etc.

Interesting. I wonder if there's any hard data out there about this. Anecdotally, I know of a few people who went to TTT UGs and killed OCI.


Oh, it's not impossible at all, it's just one more thing people have to overcome. Excellent grades can do it, but they may be quite necessary, depending on the school and the firm (and other factors like WE). I would also love to see hard data if anyone has it, since all we have are anecdotes!

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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:11 pm

Veyron wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
Veyron wrote:And hao people SCREAMED when I said that GULC was getting pwnd!

It was more the way you said it, IIRC. The obviously falsified descriptions of GULC students wandering around with dazed, beaten looks in their eyes, etc. etc.

What sort of experience do you have in litigation? It sounds like it's quite extensive if you're so confident of the personality required.


Hmmmm, well, before law school my firm was involved in some pretty massive litigation. I didn't participate much but I got to observe from the client's POV.

Before law school, I spoke to many biglaw and botique litigators about their field. I had a good amount of access, coming as I did from the client's side.

Both in and before law school I've gone out of my way to meet litigation partners and discuss their field with them. Some of these conversations have been quite extensive, running for many hours.

Basically, I've found that I get along really, really well with litigators. If you find my personality abrasive, this should give you pause.
I do as well. I don't find your personality abrasive - distasteful and somewhat childish are probably more accurate terms.

As far as the GULC thing, I really, really have nothing against GULC. If anything, I envy them their faculty. Its just I really have seen the pwnage firsthand
Have you now?

and they seem to be weathering it especially poorly. You are correct that my descriptions of the "thousand yard gazes" was a bit of literary fancy, but it reflects the texture of my friends' experiences. I'm not trying to shit on the kids there - I think that the school is doing them a disservice.
"Literary fancy?" haha you're truly a special breed.

Myself and my friends are all doing fine. I'm off to a V5, but even the people I know who don't have a firm job don't wander about in a daze of pwnage and seem like pretty happy, well adjusted people. Judging by your smug satisfaction in other's career misfortunes, it seems you can't say the same.

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Veyron
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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby Veyron » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:12 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
Veyron wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:
Veyron wrote:And hao people SCREAMED when I said that GULC was getting pwnd!

It was more the way you said it, IIRC. The obviously falsified descriptions of GULC students wandering around with dazed, beaten looks in their eyes, etc. etc.

What sort of experience do you have in litigation? It sounds like it's quite extensive if you're so confident of the personality required.


Hmmmm, well, before law school my firm was involved in some pretty massive litigation. I didn't participate much but I got to observe from the client's POV.

Before law school, I spoke to many biglaw and botique litigators about their field. I had a good amount of access, coming as I did from the client's side.

Both in and before law school I've gone out of my way to meet litigation partners and discuss their field with them. Some of these conversations have been quite extensive, running for many hours.

Basically, I've found that I get along really, really well with litigators. If you find my personality abrasive, this should give you pause.
I do as well. I don't find your personality abrasive - distasteful and somewhat childish are probably more accurate terms.

As far as the GULC thing, I really, really have nothing against GULC. If anything, I envy them their faculty. Its just I really have seen the pwnage firsthand
Have you now?

and they seem to be weathering it especially poorly. You are correct that my descriptions of the "thousand yard gazes" was a bit of literary fancy, but it reflects the texture of my friends' experiences. I'm not trying to shit on the kids there - I think that the school is doing them a disservice.
"Literary fancy?" haha you're truly a special breed.

Myself and my friends are all doing fine. I'm off to a V5, but even the people I know who don't have a firm job don't wander about in a daze of pwnage and seem like pretty happy, well adjusted people. Judging by your smug satisfaction in other's career misfortunes, it seems you can't say the same.


Satisfaction? Do you even READ my posts or do you just like to spew unsubstantiated vitriol?

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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby DallasCowboy » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:11 pm

So much for the courtesy.

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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby OperaSoprano » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:13 pm

This is a really useful thread: mod request to please keep things polite and not derail if possible.

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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:39 pm

Veyron wrote:Satisfaction? Do you even READ my posts or do you just like to spew unsubstantiated vitriol?


And hao people SCREAMED when I said that GULC was getting pwnd!


Smug (almost excited) satisfaction, like I said.

Plus, your original post in the gloating about GULC struggles thread was:

2Ls walking around with dead looks in their eyes, virtually EVERYONE struck out at OCI, including some very highly ranked kids.


The anecdotal evidence provided by the other posters showed basically every very highly ranked person getting a big firm job. Most I know who didn't were around median. So you're smug and incapable of interpreting basic data points. (judging by your inference that the posted data confirms that "virtually EVERYONE struck out at OCI." :roll:

Also LOL at your pwnage when you decided NLJ fabricates stats. Your knowledge about this field is severely lacking; post accordingly.

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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:17 pm

haoledugan wrote:As a soon to be 1L who has now committed to 3 years of additional schooling, I have been searching for qualified insight into the current job outlook for recent law grads... I don't think I'm alone here. I would love to see questions answered without the undue sarcasm, snide remarks, and unsubstantiated claims so often a part of the other topics here in TLS Forums.

To start, I would be very interested in hearing from some 2L's, 3L's, and recent grads about their personal experience in finding legal work.


I'm sure you already have heard similar sentiments throughout this thread but if you're going to law school with the hopes of Biglaw then I'm afraid you're likely to be disappointed. I think the legal market is experiencing a long term shift that's going to have a long term impact in student hiring. Clients of the big firms are now seeking to be leaner and are, thus, seeking to downsize their infrastructure just to stay competitive in the global economy. That includes reducing their overall legal budget. A lot of the big law firms are now starting to recognize this reality. Clients are simply refusing to pay high legal fees and the law firms are simply responding by reducing their overhead. That overhead includes head count of attorneys. This is likely one of the reasons why new associate classes overall have been reduced over the last 3 years.

Given this shift, I'm having serious doubts of the legal market (biglaw in particular) going back to what it was 10 or 15 years ago even when the economy turns around. I think anyone who is riding his/her hat on securing a biglaw job after law school need to be realistic (or maybe they shouldn't go to law school at all). I do, however, think there are opportunities one can use with the law degree but one has has to be open to other alternative careers such as consulting....or at least take a crack at going solo.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Veyron
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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby Veyron » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:23 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
Veyron wrote:Satisfaction? Do you even READ my posts or do you just like to spew unsubstantiated vitriol?


And hao people SCREAMED when I said that GULC was getting pwnd!


Smug (almost excited) satisfaction, like I said.

Plus, your original post in the gloating about GULC struggles thread was:

2Ls walking around with dead looks in their eyes, virtually EVERYONE struck out at OCI, including some very highly ranked kids.


The anecdotal evidence provided by the other posters showed basically every very highly ranked person getting a big firm job. Most I know who didn't were around median. So you're smug and incapable of interpreting basic data points. (judging by your inference that the posted data confirms that "virtually EVERYONE struck out at OCI." :roll:

Also LOL at your pwnage when you decided NLJ fabricates stats. Your knowledge about this field is severely lacking; post accordingly.


So, in an attempt to make this more relevant.

The NLJ data gives you an idea of pre-crash hiring. Though the NLJ doesn't fabricate stats, I and many other posters pointed out why the NLJ stats are highly misleading. Indeed, you were pointed to an entire thread on the subject which I am too lazy to search for (but OP might want to).

OP needs to consider whether top 1/3 at #14 MAYBE getting a biglaw job and anything below being in for some hard times reflects a robust legal hiring market.

Jazz One, for instance, killed it his first year at #15 and (though there is arguably a notable difference in the desirability of UT and GULC students), he reported this earlier in the thread:

2L here. The market was far worse than I expected, and all the TLS cynicism was warranted (and then some). Things seem to be looking up a tad for this year's 1Ls, though.


Now, if you managed to land Skadden from GULC, you should be very pleased with yourself, but please don't create the illusion that that is common.

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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby chipchip » Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:03 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
The anecdotal evidence provided by the other posters showed basically every very highly ranked person getting a big firm job. Most I know who didn't were around median. So you're smug and incapable of interpreting basic data points. (judging by your inference that the posted data confirms that "virtually EVERYONE struck out at OCI." :roll:



I just want to QFT. I'd love to know where Veyron got the idea that GULCers are walking around the way he says they are. I'm not sure who pasteurizedmilk is IRL, but I'm going to corroborate what (s)he is saying - the majority who are struggling are median. Sure, there are some people in other positions, but I'd chalk that up more to interviewing or bidding issues than a difficult market in general. DC as a market was difficult, no doubt. But people who spread the wealth got plenty of screeners and as long as they weren't the epitome of awkward, enough callbacks to turn at least one around into an offer.

ETA:
Now, if you managed to land Skadden from GULC, you should be very pleased with yourself, but please don't create the illusion that that is common.


Skadden gave out plenty of offers. At least 2 people I know are going there. Those who turned them down ended up at V5s and V10s.

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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby fatduck » Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:18 pm

Veyron wrote:2Ls walking around with dead looks in their eyes, virtually EVERYONE struck out at OCI, including some very highly ranked kids.


From Veyron's perspective, the students at GULC seem to have dead looks in their eyes, but this is really just a common optical illusion due to differences in elevation.

I've drawn a diagram to illustrate the effect:

Image

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Veyron
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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby Veyron » Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:25 pm

fatduck wrote:
Veyron wrote:2Ls walking around with dead looks in their eyes, virtually EVERYONE struck out at OCI, including some very highly ranked kids.


From Veyron's perspective, the students at GULC seem to have dead looks in their eyes, but this is really just a common optical illusion due to differences in elevation.

I've drawn a diagram to illustrate the effect:

Image


Lol :roll: .

The true secret to my hatred is my envy of Georgetown's basketball team.

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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby dk8 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:37 pm

fatduck wrote:
Veyron wrote:2Ls walking around with dead looks in their eyes, virtually EVERYONE struck out at OCI, including some very highly ranked kids.


From Veyron's perspective, the students at GULC seem to have dead looks in their eyes, but this is really just a common optical illusion due to differences in elevation.

I've drawn a diagram to illustrate the effect:



LOL. I rarely post but I had to give you props for this one.

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A'nold
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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby A'nold » Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:42 pm

fatduck wrote:
Veyron wrote:2Ls walking around with dead looks in their eyes, virtually EVERYONE struck out at OCI, including some very highly ranked kids.


From Veyron's perspective, the students at GULC seem to have dead looks in their eyes, but this is really just a common optical illusion due to differences in elevation.

I've drawn a diagram to illustrate the effect:

Image

That was one of the coolest things I've ever seen someone post on here. :D

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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby fatduck » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:14 pm

wow i really killed this thread huh

Hey-O
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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby Hey-O » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:13 pm

I hope this thread doesn't die. I really liked seeing some impressions from actual students. I would also be interested in some information from higher ranked schools 1-10 or so.

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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:32 pm

Hey-O wrote:I hope this thread doesn't die. I really liked seeing some impressions from actual students. I would also be interested in some information from higher ranked schools 1-10 or so.


Penn

Top - 10% --> Enjoy CSM/V5/COA
Top 1/3 --> Enjoy V20 biglaw or biglaw in a market of your choice
Median - Top 1/3 --> Enjoy biglaw (if you bid well)
Median --> OK shot at biglaw
2/3 - Median --> Some shot at NYC Biglaw
Bottom 1/3 --> Infinite sadness

P.S. Biglaw does most hiring. Good PI (i.e. PI where you can eat and pay your bills) is similarly competitve.

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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby beachbum » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Hey-O wrote:I hope this thread doesn't die. I really liked seeing some impressions from actual students. I would also be interested in some information from higher ranked schools 1-10 or so.


Penn

Top - 10% --> Enjoy CSM/V5/COA
Top 1/3 --> Enjoy V20 biglaw or biglaw in a market of your choice
Median - Top 1/3 --> Enjoy biglaw (if you bid well)
Median --> OK shot at biglaw
2/3 - Median --> Some shot at NYC Biglaw
Bottom 1/3 --> Infinite sadness

P.S. Biglaw does most hiring. Good PI (i.e. PI where you can eat and pay your bills) is similarly competitve.


This seems much rosier than what a lot of people suggest around here. Veyron (or other Penn students), any thoughts on these estimates?

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Veyron
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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby Veyron » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:18 pm

beachbum wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Hey-O wrote:I hope this thread doesn't die. I really liked seeing some impressions from actual students. I would also be interested in some information from higher ranked schools 1-10 or so.


Penn

Top - 10% --> Enjoy CSM/V5/COA
Top 1/3 --> Enjoy V20 biglaw or biglaw in a market of your choice
Median - Top 1/3 --> Enjoy biglaw (if you bid well)
Median --> OK shot at biglaw
2/3 - Median --> Some shot at NYC Biglaw
Bottom 1/3 --> Infinite sadness

P.S. Biglaw does most hiring. Good PI (i.e. PI where you can eat and pay your bills) is similarly competitve.


This seems much rosier than what a lot of people suggest around here. Veyron (or other Penn students), any thoughts on these estimates?


Meh, NYC megafocus FTW. The 2Ls generally seem pretty upbeat. Still, the picture above isn't what you would call great.
Last edited by Veyron on Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Courteous, Substantiated Thoughts, Please.

Postby MrAnon » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:20 pm

The reason people get angry and critical in these threads is because they are trying to sound a very stern warning from the future for 0Ls about what they are getting themselves into. It comes across as unpleasant because it is. The vast majority of grads are not finding themselves where they expected they would be. People talk about the "lost year" like it was a isolated to one class, but the truth is that is has continued for a second and now a third year.

Most professors are too smart to ask openly how the jobs picture is for students. It can be quite awkward for students whose loans pay the professors six figure salary to admit that they cannot now find work, so they leave that alone. But recently a professor at my T1 decided to ask how people were doing with their search. Of 9 graduating students in the room not a one had anything lined up. Several described opportunities they were chasing down or areas they were focused on, but none held an offer. If they graduated tomorrow they would all be unemployed. Where would they be without law school? Hard to say, but their net worth would clearly be higher.

Going to law school today is very much just postponing the day of reckoning. What I mean by that is that if you feel you are going to law school now because you can't get or are unqualified for various jobs, and you currently have school debt, well, odds are that this is the same way you'll feel after law school graduation, except you'll have more debt, and you'll realize that you could have done a variety of things before law school, but now it only makes sense to do law.




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