Government Jobs (CIA, FBI, DOJ, ATF)

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always206
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:38 pm

Government Jobs (CIA, FBI, DOJ, ATF)

Postby always206 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:31 pm

How competitive would you be with a JD? I'm looking at Syracuse right now. They offer a program, I believe, would be awesome for someone wanting to go into intelligence:

Per LSAC.org, "Institute for National Security and Counterterrorism
(INSCT)—The institute, a joint enterprise of the College of
Law and the Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public
Affairs, is dedicated to interdisciplinary teaching, research,
and public service focused on important national and global
problems of security and terrorism."

Just wanted some opinions as to how much weight a program like this would help someone wanting to go into the FBI, CIA or ATF..

clone22
Posts: 354
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:38 pm

Re: Government Jobs (CIA, FBI, DOJ, ATF)

Postby clone22 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:33 pm

On a side note that's somewhat related, does one need US citizenship to work for those agencies? Would something like a green card or political asylum documentation work?

thanks

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Patriot1208
Posts: 7044
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:28 am

Re: Government Jobs (CIA, FBI, DOJ, ATF)

Postby Patriot1208 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:17 pm

OP are you asking for general counsel positions or Agent (FBI and ATF) and NCS (CIA) positions?

Also, clone, yes you have to be a US citizen.

always206
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:38 pm

Re: Government Jobs (CIA, FBI, DOJ, ATF)

Postby always206 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:36 am

Agent status. I'm assuming VA and some other strong schools would consume the counsel positions.

BlueDiamond
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Re: Government Jobs (CIA, FBI, DOJ, ATF)

Postby BlueDiamond » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:46 am

go to law school if you want to be a lawyer

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rman1201
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Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Government Jobs (CIA, FBI, DOJ, ATF)

Postby rman1201 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:51 am

As to the program and its placement into Government Agencies I doubt anyone here will have that specific of knowledge, and the most you can hope for are generalized snarky answers such as:
go to law school if you want to be a lawyer

(Not that this isn't true, it's just played out and not very helpful).

Just email the program director and ask them if they have any data for that particular program, what jobs recent graduates have landed, etc. They'll probably fluff things up, but at least you can always hope for the off chance of an honest answer or actual legitimate data.

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fatduck
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Re: Government Jobs (CIA, FBI, DOJ, ATF)

Postby fatduck » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:55 am

could you get a job as an agent after law school? yes.

would it be worth the time/money spent to get the JD? no.

you would be much, much better off in a master's program. poli sci, security studies, something terrorism-related, something psych-related, economics, etc. would all be good.

BlueDiamond
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Government Jobs (CIA, FBI, DOJ, ATF)

Postby BlueDiamond » Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:01 am

oh and if youre talking about a field agent.. join the military.. take names kick ass get recruited

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Patriot1208
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Re: Government Jobs (CIA, FBI, DOJ, ATF)

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:51 am

BlueDiamond wrote:oh and if youre talking about a field agent.. join the military.. take names kick ass get recruited


This tells me that you don't understand what people in these positions do. In the DOJ there is no such thing as field agent and non field agent. Everyone will be on the street at some point in time. You may end up getting appointed initially with the Financial Investigation Unit or some sort, but you don't have to stay there your whole career if you do well and lobby your boss. The only difference that makes if you are looking specifically to make FBI HRT, DEA FAST, etc.

OP, here is the deal. Applications are at an all time high in the DOJ. The FBI, DEA, ATF, etc are all getting more tons and tons of applications because of the economy. So, even if it weren't for the current hiring freeze, it's extremely hard to get on. Each class is looking for new types of people. But, having a JD from Syracuse isn't making you more competitive. Generally, experience is FAR more important than education in getting on with these agencies. Almost everyone at these places only has a bachelors. Many went back later in life to get masters but didn't have them when applying. I know a few JD's and every single one of them had significant work experience besides LS when they got on. Every JD I know who applied without having relevant work experience didn't even get an interview. I know one person in an upcoming class that has a JD but he was a biglaw lawyer for 3 years first. One JD I know has a JD from Harvard and spent 4 years with the marines. Learning a foreign language, joining the military, spending time as a local cop, getting a specific degree in accounting or CS, are all better ways to get on to these agencies. I'd say 75% of people I know in these agencies were local cops or military personnel. The easiest way to get on is to join the NYPD, do extremely well and make detective, then apply. That program out of syracuse is very unlikely to get you a job in these agencies.

Second, the CIA doesn't have agents because they aren't a law enforcement agency. The have analysts, NCO, and paramilitary positions. Analysts are just like any other intelligence analyst. You sit at a desk, get reports, analyze them, and write a report. It's dull, but some like it. A JD is not making you more likely to get this job. If you can get a job in the intelligence community through a good masters program or the like this would be a possibility. But, a foreign language is required. NCO positions are generally just information collectors. You spend time in other countries, you talk to people, collect information, etc. It's dangerous, not glamorous, and you aren't James Bond. You aren't getting a job here with a JD from Syracuse. These positions are recruited at top universities or military intelligence. Several foreign languages are a must just to get an interview, I know first hand. Paramilitary positions are just what they sound like, these guys are as close to James Bond as we have. You aren't getting a CIA paramilitary position without being recruited from special forces.

I hth, you can pm with specific questions if you like.




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