Work / Life balance in secondary markets

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
duckmoney
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:21 pm

Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby duckmoney » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:12 am

I've hard that billable hour requirements are lower at firms in secondary markets (ones that pay $90 - $120k / yr at the best firms). Is this true to the extent that work-life balance is significantly better, to a point to be worth the lower salary, or is it all pretty much hellish?

Disclaimer: This coming from a 0L

User avatar
fatduck
Posts: 4186
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby fatduck » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:13 am

i've noticed that a lot of people on this forum have duck-related usernames

User avatar
holdencaulfield
Posts: 478
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:12 pm

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby holdencaulfield » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:26 am

I've accepted such a job and the firm seems genuine about providing a work/life balance. They encourage community involvement, family, and 8-hour days (barring deadlines or special circumstances).

Although, I guess i won't really know what it's like until I start work after the bar.

dru617
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:29 pm

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby dru617 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:52 pm

I've accepted a 2L SA position in a secondary market where "market" is between $110k and $120k. From all the research I've done and people I've talked with, the minimum billables of 1750-1800 hours are for real - no one expects anyone to bill much more than this. I even had a partner tell me that when associates have pulled 2000 hrs + in the past, the firm has sat the person down and told them to chill out.

User avatar
paratactical
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby paratactical » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:57 pm

I worked as a paralegal in biglaw in NYC for four years and now I'm a paralegal in Boston biglaw. The hours are seriously very different. Even though you can work as many hours in a week when you're in the smaller market, you can do things like work from home or take breaks to go home and eat with your family rather than dining in a conference room in the office.

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:58 pm

fatduck wrote:i've noticed that a lot of people on this forum have duck-related usernames


And I haven't even seen Mallard in here for a while.

User avatar
20160810
Posts: 19648
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 pm

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby 20160810 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:00 pm

I too took a job in a secondary market where I will not be billing more than 1800 hours a year. Generally speaking, they're telling you the truth about work-life balance. If there's a big case, then yeah, you'll be working hard, but by and large there is a reason you don't get paid as much.

User avatar
lisjjen
Posts: 1242
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:19 am

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby lisjjen » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:11 pm

Define secondary markets? Is everything but LA and NY a secondary market? Would Houston and DFW or Seattle be considered a secondary market?

What would Boise be? A tertiary market?

User avatar
A'nold
Posts: 3622
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:07 pm

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby A'nold » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:24 pm

lisjjen wrote:Define secondary markets? Is everything but LA and NY a secondary market? Would Houston and DFW or Seattle be considered a secondary market?

What would Boise be? A tertiary potato market?

paulinaporizkova
Posts: 2494
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby paulinaporizkova » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:30 pm

bump. this is a good question

User avatar
A'nold
Posts: 3622
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:07 pm

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby A'nold » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:32 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:bump. this is a good question


Wait....did you just bump something that was just posted on about 2 minutes ago?

paulinaporizkova
Posts: 2494
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby paulinaporizkova » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:33 pm

A'nold wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:bump. this is a good question


Wait....did you just bump something that was just posted on about 2 minutes ago?


yes, yes i did.

it was 6 minutes

User avatar
Stanford4Me
Posts: 6049
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:23 am

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby Stanford4Me » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:35 pm

lisjjen wrote:Define secondary markets? Is everything but LA and NY a secondary market? Would Houston and DFW or Seattle be considered a secondary market?

What would Boise be? A tertiary market?

I've always wondered if Texas is considered a secondary market.

User avatar
quakeroats
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:34 am

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby quakeroats » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:35 pm

lisjjen wrote:Define secondary markets? Is everything but LA and NY a secondary market? Would Houston and DFW or Seattle be considered a secondary market?

What would Boise be? A tertiary market?


Here, NY, DC, LA, and sometimes Chicago, Boston, and San Francisco are considered major markets. What's interesting is that DC, Boston, and San Francisco are smaller by population than several other markets:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Metro_Areas

paulinaporizkova
Posts: 2494
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby paulinaporizkova » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:36 pm

quakeroats wrote:
lisjjen wrote:Define secondary markets? Is everything but LA and NY a secondary market? Would Houston and DFW or Seattle be considered a secondary market?

What would Boise be? A tertiary market?


Here, NY, DC, LA, and sometimes Chicago, Boston, and San Francisco are considered major markets. What's interesting is that DC, Boston, and San Francisco are smaller by population than several other markets:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Metro_Areas


Here? You mean at Duke but not other schools?

User avatar
Nogameisfair
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:05 pm

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby Nogameisfair » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:37 pm

lisjjen wrote:Define secondary markets? Is everything but LA and NY a secondary market? Would Houston and DFW or Seattle be considered a secondary market?

What would Boise be? A tertiary market?


NY, DC, LA, SF, Chicago, and those big towns in Texas are the only primary markets. Everything else is secondary.

bbermud
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:35 am

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby bbermud » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:39 pm

Nogameisfair wrote:
lisjjen wrote:Define secondary markets? Is everything but LA and NY a secondary market? Would Houston and DFW or Seattle be considered a secondary market?

What would Boise be? A tertiary market?


NY, DC, LA, SF, Chicago, and those big towns in Texas are the only primary markets. Everything else is secondary.



if you are billing 100-1850 hours, what does that equate to in terms of working hours per week?

User avatar
quakeroats
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:34 am

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby quakeroats » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:40 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
lisjjen wrote:Define secondary markets? Is everything but LA and NY a secondary market? Would Houston and DFW or Seattle be considered a secondary market?

What would Boise be? A tertiary market?


Here, NY, DC, LA, and sometimes Chicago, Boston, and San Francisco are considered major markets. What's interesting is that DC, Boston, and San Francisco are smaller by population than several other markets:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Metro_Areas


Here? You mean at Duke but not other schools?


I mean on this forum.

User avatar
quakeroats
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:34 am

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby quakeroats » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:41 pm

bbermud wrote:
Nogameisfair wrote:
lisjjen wrote:Define secondary markets? Is everything but LA and NY a secondary market? Would Houston and DFW or Seattle be considered a secondary market?

What would Boise be? A tertiary market?


NY, DC, LA, SF, Chicago, and those big towns in Texas are the only primary markets. Everything else is secondary.



if you are billing 100-1850 hours, what does that equate to in terms of working hours per week?


It depends on how efficient you are. 2 hours billed/3 hours worked is a good approximation.

User avatar
20160810
Posts: 19648
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 pm

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby 20160810 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:42 pm

lisjjen wrote:Define secondary markets? Is everything but LA and NY a secondary market? Would Houston and DFW or Seattle be considered a secondary market?

What would Boise be? A tertiary market?

In the strictest sense, NYC and DC are the "primary markets." To this, people often add Chicago, LA, SF, Boston, Houston and DFW because there are a lot of firms there and the biggest among them tend to pay market. When people define "secondary markets" as markets with firms that don't pay 160, they're usually talking about places like ATL, Phoenix, San Antonio, Florida, San Diego, Sacramento, Seattle, etc.

User avatar
pu_golf88
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 1:34 am

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby pu_golf88 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:54 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:bump. this is a good question


Well I feel pretty confident in saying that DC and Chicago are primary markets.

bbermud
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:35 am

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby bbermud » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:55 pm

SBL wrote:
lisjjen wrote:Define secondary markets? Is everything but LA and NY a secondary market? Would Houston and DFW or Seattle be considered a secondary market?

What would Boise be? A tertiary market?

In the strictest sense, NYC and DC are the "primary markets." To this, people often add Chicago, LA, SF, Boston, Houston and DFW because there are a lot of firms there and the biggest among them tend to pay market. When people define "secondary markets" as markets with firms that don't pay 160, they're usually talking about places like ATL, Phoenix, San Antonio, Florida, San Diego, Sacramento, Seattle, etc.


I really want to move to Chicago post graduation and have not decided if Biglaw is for me yet. If didn't go Biglaw in Chicago, what sort or salary could I command granted I am not an idiot.

paulinaporizkova
Posts: 2494
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby paulinaporizkova » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:00 pm

bbermud wrote:
SBL wrote:
lisjjen wrote:Define secondary markets? Is everything but LA and NY a secondary market? Would Houston and DFW or Seattle be considered a secondary market?

What would Boise be? A tertiary market?

In the strictest sense, NYC and DC are the "primary markets." To this, people often add Chicago, LA, SF, Boston, Houston and DFW because there are a lot of firms there and the biggest among them tend to pay market. When people define "secondary markets" as markets with firms that don't pay 160, they're usually talking about places like ATL, Phoenix, San Antonio, Florida, San Diego, Sacramento, Seattle, etc.


I really want to move to Chicago post graduation and have not decided if Biglaw is for me yet. If didn't go Biglaw in Chicago, what sort or salary could I command granted I am not an idiot.


what school do you or will you go to?

bbermud
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:35 am

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby bbermud » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:05 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
bbermud wrote:
SBL wrote:
lisjjen wrote:Define secondary markets? Is everything but LA and NY a secondary market? Would Houston and DFW or Seattle be considered a secondary market?

What would Boise be? A tertiary market?

In the strictest sense, NYC and DC are the "primary markets." To this, people often add Chicago, LA, SF, Boston, Houston and DFW because there are a lot of firms there and the biggest among them tend to pay market. When people define "secondary markets" as markets with firms that don't pay 160, they're usually talking about places like ATL, Phoenix, San Antonio, Florida, San Diego, Sacramento, Seattle, etc.


I really want to move to Chicago post graduation and have not decided if Biglaw is for me yet. If didn't go Biglaw in Chicago, what sort or salary could I command granted I am not an idiot.


what school do you or will you go to?


I'm in at Iowa so most likely there due to in state tuition. Waiting on 6 other schools. So for argument's sake, let's just say Iowa.

UtahPhi
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:20 am

Re: Work / Life balance in secondary markets

Postby UtahPhi » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:07 pm

Jumping onto this. Where does Salt Lake rank in this sense. Would it qualify as a secondary, or more of tertiary market like the potato factory in Boise?




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.