Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

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Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:20 am

I go to a top 30 regional school. Just found out that around 75% of us are still unemployed - I assume this is comprised of the top 10% that still managed to get into firms and a random other 15% here and there that scored offers from their other summer employment. For the rest of us, it's looking pretty abysmal. I am in the process of "networking" but so far have just met a bunch of nice people that don't have jobs at their firms. It honestly feels like no one is hiring. My stats: top 15% (I was only top 25% at 2L OCI though), worked only in government for my summers/externships - none of which hire entry level attorneys (local government office and judicial extern for a couple different judges), and I'm a bit older (early 30s) with kind of an eclectic background. I'm not really asking this for you to tell me "you'll be fine" since I doubt any of you know that, just curious if any of you/your schools are wondering what the hell to do now. I kept thinking my opportunities would increase as my grades did, sure doesn't feel like it.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:I go to a top 30 regional school. Just found out that around 75% of us are still unemployed - I assume this is comprised of the top 10% that still managed to get into firms and a random other 15% here and there that scored offers from their other summer employment. For the rest of us, it's looking pretty abysmal. I am in the process of "networking" but so far have just met a bunch of nice people that don't have jobs at their firms. It honestly feels like no one is hiring. My stats: top 15% (I was only top 25% at 2L OCI though), worked only in government for my summers/externships - none of which hire entry level attorneys (local government office and judicial extern for a couple different judges), and I'm a bit older (early 30s) with kind of an eclectic background (teaching in a foreign country, chef, sales). I'm not really asking this for you to tell me "you'll be fine" since I doubt any of you know that, just curious if any of you/your schools are wondering what the hell to do now. I kept thinking my opportunities would increase as my grades did, sure doesn't feel like it.


1L grades are the only grades that matter.

bmontminy
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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby bmontminy » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:55 am

if anonymous and only vague grades posted, post what school you are at please?

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98234872348
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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby 98234872348 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I go to a top 30 regional school. Just found out that around 75% of us are still unemployed - I assume this is comprised of the top 10% that still managed to get into firms and a random other 15% here and there that scored offers from their other summer employment. For the rest of us, it's looking pretty abysmal. I am in the process of "networking" but so far have just met a bunch of nice people that don't have jobs at their firms. It honestly feels like no one is hiring. My stats: top 15% (I was only top 25% at 2L OCI though), worked only in government for my summers/externships - none of which hire entry level attorneys (local government office and judicial extern for a couple different judges), and I'm a bit older (early 30s) with kind of an eclectic background (teaching in a foreign country, chef, sales). I'm not really asking this for you to tell me "you'll be fine" since I doubt any of you know that, just curious if any of you/your schools are wondering what the hell to do now. I kept thinking my opportunities would increase as my grades did, sure doesn't feel like it.


1L grades are the only grades that matter.

:?

Not if you're considering clerking...

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:13 pm

Do you attend BU/BC/Notre Dame/Emory/William and Mary or one of the other T30s?

tophat
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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby tophat » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:39 pm

That's too bad about your situation, have you tried interning this semester with a firm? I think that sometimes segways into full-time work. Have you just been looking into bigger corporate firms or have you also been speaking with specialty firms? I think if you could start specializing in real estate, family law, etc then you're chances might be better. Another option might be state or city level judges. Judges probably will care that your GPA has gone up and you can use your clerkship year to network like crazy. Have you tried meeting with your professors? They might be able to get you an interview somewhere as a favor.

Finally, since you do have govt experience you could start looking into public interest work, I don't know what city you are in but there are probably some jobs. Most public interest work will be really competitive, but it might be worth looking into even though the place you worked previously doesn't hire.

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underdawg
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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby underdawg » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:56 pm

holy shit 25% employment? how're they going to finagle that into 99% for usnews?

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:02 pm

underdawg wrote:holy shit 25% employment? how're they going to finagle that into 99% for usnews?


Well...90% of students that graduate from law school will have a job 9 months after graduation. Even if they are staying at home with their parents and have no loans, their parents will make them get a job. The problem is the survey asks the wrong question. Employment at 9 months shouldn't matter at all. Employment at graduation should be the only thing that matters and law school students that are unemployed at that point should report unemployment at that time instead of not reporting anything. That statistic should be 15%+ of the total US News ranking.

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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:02 pm

mistergoft wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I go to a top 30 regional school. Just found out that around 75% of us are still unemployed - I assume this is comprised of the top 10% that still managed to get into firms and a random other 15% here and there that scored offers from their other summer employment. For the rest of us, it's looking pretty abysmal. I am in the process of "networking" but so far have just met a bunch of nice people that don't have jobs at their firms. It honestly feels like no one is hiring. My stats: top 15% (I was only top 25% at 2L OCI though), worked only in government for my summers/externships - none of which hire entry level attorneys (local government office and judicial extern for a couple different judges), and I'm a bit older (early 30s) with kind of an eclectic background (teaching in a foreign country, chef, sales). I'm not really asking this for you to tell me "you'll be fine" since I doubt any of you know that, just curious if any of you/your schools are wondering what the hell to do now. I kept thinking my opportunities would increase as my grades did, sure doesn't feel like it.


1L grades are the only grades that matter.

:?

Not if you're considering clerking...


the only people who should be considering clerking are people with good 1L grades, so that kind of makes your point moot (unless you're talking about some kind of freak scenario where someone goes from a 3.3 after 1L to a 3.6 or something which is pretty fucking rare)

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ndirish2010
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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:07 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Do you attend BU/BC/Notre Dame/Emory/William and Mary or one of the other T30s?


I'm guessing the OP is not at a T20/T25 or he/she would have said that.

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98234872348
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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby 98234872348 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:14 pm

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:1L grades are the only grades that matter.

:?

Not if you're considering clerking...


the only people who should be considering clerking are people with good 1L grades, so that kind of makes your point moot (unless you're talking about some kind of freak scenario where someone goes from a 3.3 after 1L to a 3.6 or something which is pretty fucking rare)

Yes, but someone who has a 3.7 1L and drops to a 3.3 2L is, almost in all situations, out of the running for clerk ships (or DOJ and various other government 3L honors programs). Therefore, by definition, 1L grades aren't "the only grades that matter." Had you said they were the most important (by far in some instances, since many schools have a significantly higher 2L curve), I would not have taken issue with your statement.
Last edited by 98234872348 on Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sidhesadie
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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby sidhesadie » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:21 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
underdawg wrote:holy shit 25% employment? how're they going to finagle that into 99% for usnews?


Well...90% of students that graduate from law school will have a job 9 months after graduation. Even if they are staying at home with their parents and have no loans, their parents will make them get a job. The problem is the survey asks the wrong question. Employment at 9 months shouldn't matter at all. Employment at graduation should be the only thing that matters and law school students that are unemployed at that point should report unemployment at that time instead of not reporting anything. That statistic should be 15%+ of the total US News ranking.


And aren't the 'employment' numbers for employment, PERIOD, not legal employment (which is what OP is talking about). I mean, if you are employed full time at Burger King 9 months after graduation, I believe they count you as 'employed'. Right?

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Unitas
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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby Unitas » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:40 pm

sidhesadie wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
underdawg wrote:holy shit 25% employment? how're they going to finagle that into 99% for usnews?


Well...90% of students that graduate from law school will have a job 9 months after graduation. Even if they are staying at home with their parents and have no loans, their parents will make them get a job. The problem is the survey asks the wrong question. Employment at 9 months shouldn't matter at all. Employment at graduation should be the only thing that matters and law school students that are unemployed at that point should report unemployment at that time instead of not reporting anything. That statistic should be 15%+ of the total US News ranking.


And aren't the 'employment' numbers for employment, PERIOD, not legal employment (which is what OP is talking about). I mean, if you are employed full time at Burger King 9 months after graduation, I believe they count you as 'employed'. Right?


That is correct.

Am I the only person that thinks only 25% 3Ls have jobs lined up from a T30 is probably exaggerated and not based on facts? Probably more likely OP knows lots of unemployed people so then extrapolates the 25% employed number.
OP, is this fact or guesstimate?

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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:42 pm

Unitas wrote:Am I the only person that thinks only 25% 3Ls have jobs lined up from a T30 is a probably extremely exaggerated and not based on facts? Probably more likely OP knows lots of unemployed people so then extrapolates the 25% employed number.

Don't most smaller firms, PI, and local government positions hire towards the end of/after 3L? I thought if you didn't get anything through OCI, you were probably in this boat.

I mean yeah, 25% may be low, but it probably isn't that off.

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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:52 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Unitas wrote:Am I the only person that thinks only 25% 3Ls have jobs lined up from a T30 is a probably extremely exaggerated and not based on facts? Probably more likely OP knows lots of unemployed people so then extrapolates the 25% employed number.

Don't most smaller firms, PI, and local government positions hire towards the end of/after 3L? I thought if you didn't get anything through OCI, you were probably in this boat.

I mean yeah, 25% may be low, but it probably isn't that off.


More or less. From what I understand, almost all other non-mid/large firms/federal gov/certain PI employers wait until around the middle of this semester or later.

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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby mpj_3050 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:58 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Unitas wrote:Am I the only person that thinks only 25% 3Ls have jobs lined up from a T30 is a probably extremely exaggerated and not based on facts? Probably more likely OP knows lots of unemployed people so then extrapolates the 25% employed number.

Don't most smaller firms, PI, and local government positions hire towards the end of/after 3L? I thought if you didn't get anything through OCI, you were probably in this boat.

I mean yeah, 25% may be low, but it probably isn't that off.


I have a question about the 9 month vs. graduation thing. Don't most of your I guess "average" legal jobs require bar passage before they will hire you? OCI accounts for the pre-graduation hires and then everyone else needs to be able to ride out some unemployment (if they ever land a legal job)?

And that is complete bull that they can count Denny's shift manager as employment.

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Unitas
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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby Unitas » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:13 pm

mpj_3050 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Unitas wrote:Am I the only person that thinks only 25% 3Ls have jobs lined up from a T30 is a probably extremely exaggerated and not based on facts? Probably more likely OP knows lots of unemployed people so then extrapolates the 25% employed number.

Don't most smaller firms, PI, and local government positions hire towards the end of/after 3L? I thought if you didn't get anything through OCI, you were probably in this boat.

I mean yeah, 25% may be low, but it probably isn't that off.


I have a question about the 9 month vs. graduation thing. Don't most of your I guess "average" legal jobs require bar passage before they will hire you? OCI accounts for the pre-graduation hires and then everyone else needs to be able to ride out some unemployment (if they ever land a legal job)?

And that is complete bull that they can count Denny's shift manager as employment.


The government doesn't include you as unemployed if you just give up and stop looking for a job even if you want one... Things often don't make sense, but we still use them.

I know of a few people who had jobs, not through OCI and not at my school, that got jobs right around graduation. The employers kept them on and gave them two tries at the bar. After the second they were terminated if didn't pass. Don't know if that is representative though.

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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby underdawg » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:14 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Unitas wrote:Am I the only person that thinks only 25% 3Ls have jobs lined up from a T30 is a probably extremely exaggerated and not based on facts? Probably more likely OP knows lots of unemployed people so then extrapolates the 25% employed number.

Don't most smaller firms, PI, and local government positions hire towards the end of/after 3L? I thought if you didn't get anything through OCI, you were probably in this boat.

I mean yeah, 25% may be low, but it probably isn't that off.


More or less. From what I understand, almost all other non-mid/large firms/federal gov/certain PI employers wait until around the middle of this semester or later.

hm really? i only know a few PI people, but they have jerbs already

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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:35 pm

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I go to a top 30 regional school. Just found out that around 75% of us are still unemployed - I assume this is comprised of the top 10% that still managed to get into firms and a random other 15% here and there that scored offers from their other summer employment. For the rest of us, it's looking pretty abysmal. I am in the process of "networking" but so far have just met a bunch of nice people that don't have jobs at their firms. It honestly feels like no one is hiring. My stats: top 15% (I was only top 25% at 2L OCI though), worked only in government for my summers/externships - none of which hire entry level attorneys (local government office and judicial extern for a couple different judges), and I'm a bit older (early 30s) with kind of an eclectic background (teaching in a foreign country, chef, sales). I'm not really asking this for you to tell me "you'll be fine" since I doubt any of you know that, just curious if any of you/your schools are wondering what the hell to do now. I kept thinking my opportunities would increase as my grades did, sure doesn't feel like it.


1L grades are the only grades that matter.

:?

Not if you're considering clerking...


the only people who should be considering clerking are people with good 1L grades, so that kind of makes your point moot (unless you're talking about some kind of freak scenario where someone goes from a 3.3 after 1L to a 3.6 or something which is pretty fucking rare)


Don't think this is so rare. Someone who learns from first semester mistakes can definitely improve their grades second semester. Personally, I had this experience.

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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:40 pm

OP again here. I'm in Northern California, if that answers your "T30" question... GPA went from a 3.3 to a 3.5, so my grades went up but there was definitely some grade inflation as well since I only increased 10%. The 75% unemployment is not an exaggeration, although I'm not sure how much of that 75% might have strong leads but just don't have the job finalized.

Thanks for the tips tophat, I think you are right that looking at smaller niche areas might be my best bet. I am currently externing full time (for credit) so a firm internship right now isn't an option. Obviously as I get settled at the court I will try to work my connections there as well. I'm really hoping that this rumored wave of mid-spring hiring for smaller firms/PI is true. Anyway, I have not lost all hope, I was mostly just curious if other people/similarly ranked schools were in the same situation.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Jobless 3L - are we really this screwed?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:47 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:Do you attend BU/BC/Notre Dame/Emory/William and Mary or one of the other T30s?


I'm guessing the OP is not at a T20/T25 or he/she would have said that.


BC is 28 unless I'm mistaken.

Anonymous User wrote:OP again here. I'm in Northern California, if that answers your "T30" question... GPA went from a 3.3 to a 3.5, so my grades went up but there was definitely some grade inflation as well since I only increased 10%. The 75% unemployment is not an exaggeration, although I'm not sure how much of that 75% might have strong leads but just don't have the job finalized.

Thanks for the tips tophat, I think you are right that looking at smaller niche areas might be my best bet. I am currently externing full time (for credit) so a firm internship right now isn't an option. Obviously as I get settled at the court I will try to work my connections there as well. I'm really hoping that this rumored wave of mid-spring hiring for smaller firms/PI is true. Anyway, I have not lost all hope, I was mostly just curious if other people/similarly ranked schools were in the same situation.


OP, are there no part time firm internships? (assuming it wouldn't be too much work)




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