Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

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Verity
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Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby Verity » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:45 pm

Do I-banks do OCI at HYS, CCN, BMVP? How many is normal?

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jcunni5
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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby jcunni5 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:49 pm

I know Goldman Sachs recruits at UVA but i haven't looked into this topic that much, i think it has become more normal at the T14 for I banks/businesses to recruit

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby Voyager » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:58 pm

Zero. Or at least, none do at Columbia.

I-Banks want people who understand modeling and are good at math. They like to hire former big 3 consulting BAs and people from top business schools.

Or are you referring to analyst positions; the positions normally given to undergrads?

I am rather surprised that Goldman Sachs takes part in UVA's OCI given that they have their pick of the very top business schools. Why not just recruit more MBA kids who actually spent a couple of years learning something that has to do with their business?

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby ruski » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:39 pm

none of them actively recruit JDs. Maybe you are thinking of consulting firms which sometimes do. that said it is not impossible to get into an ibank from law school - but those who have done it did it through their own efforts and not through some formalized recruiting process. most JDs though who end up in ibanking practice for a few years first though, as it is only then that they become valuable to the ibanks because they understand the deal mechanics. a JD with no relevant work experience is useless to them

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby Verity » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:40 pm

Voyager wrote:Zero. Or at least, none do at Columbia.

I-Banks want people who understand modeling and are good at math. They like to hire former big 3 consulting BAs and people from top business schools.

Or are you referring to analyst positions; the positions normally given to undergrads?

I am rather surprised that Goldman Sachs takes part in UVA's OCI given that they have their pick of the very top business schools. Why not just recruit more MBA kids who actually spent a couple of years learning something that has to do with their business?



Don't they have legal departments? I'm not exactly talking about sell-side, or a straight up quant position.

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby Veyron » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:43 pm

You be thinking of consulting brah?

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby soullesswonder » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:46 pm

Voyager wrote:Zero. Or at least, none do at Columbia.

I-Banks want people who understand modeling and are good at math. They like to hire former big 3 consulting BAs and people from top business schools.

Or are you referring to analyst positions; the positions normally given to undergrads?

I am rather surprised that Goldman Sachs takes part in UVA's OCI given that they have their pick of the very top business schools. Why not just recruit more MBA kids who actually spent a couple of years learning something that has to do with their business?


My impression was that GS was only looking for a select number of UVA students who either had WE in the financial industry already and/or were tracking into our law and business program with a heavy business background in UG

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby Verity » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:47 pm

Veyron wrote:You be thinking of consulting brah ho?



No. I'm not trying to be a consultant, or a quant, or a salesperson. I just thought they might have in-house legal departments that recruit.

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby clintonius » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:54 pm

I'm not in a position to know whether any i-banks participate in OCI at all, but my general understanding is that they hire people with a few years of (usually) biglaw experience under their belt for in-house positions.

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby soullesswonder » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:59 pm

Verity wrote:
Veyron wrote:You be thinking of consulting brah ho?



No. I'm not trying to be a consultant, or a quant, or a salesperson. I just thought they might have in-house legal departments that recruit.


You can probably count the number of major companies who regularly participate at OCIs nationally on one hand. A legal department is already enough of a cost center even without first years who need their diapers changed.

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby Renzo » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:01 pm

Verity wrote:
Veyron wrote:You be thinking of consulting brah ho?



No. I'm not trying to be a consultant, or a quant, or a salesperson. I just thought they might have in-house legal departments that recruit.

This is the exit option that a prestigious firm will get you; it's not an entry-level gig.

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby Veyron » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:02 pm

Verity wrote:
Veyron wrote:You be thinking of consulting brah ho?



No. I'm not trying to be a consultant, or a quant, or a salesperson. I just thought they might have in-house legal departments that recruit.


I think some in house legal departments do recruit at OCI here at Penn but I don't know of any i-banks that recruit for in-house here. Just do b-school bro.

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby A&O » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:38 am

clintonius wrote:I'm not in a position to know whether any i-banks participate in OCI at all, but my general understanding is that they hire people with a few years of (usually) biglaw experience under their belt for in-house positions.


...and these positions are mostly attained by S&C associates.

Before ITE, S&C associates even seconded to Goldman for long stretches of time. It's also rumored that some partners' offices have direct lines to Goldman Sachs (though that might have changed since Goldman moved to the WTC area and is no longer across the street).

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby Verity » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:54 pm

A&O wrote:
clintonius wrote:I'm not in a position to know whether any i-banks participate in OCI at all, but my general understanding is that they hire people with a few years of (usually) biglaw experience under their belt for in-house positions.


...and these positions are mostly attained by S&C associates.

Before ITE, S&C associates even seconded to Goldman for long stretches of time. It's also rumored that some partners' offices have direct lines to Goldman Sachs (though that might have changed since Goldman moved to the WTC area and is no longer across the street).



How's S&C been with hiring new grads this last year? I've had my eye on that firm for a while.

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby icouldbuyu » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:58 pm

soullesswonder wrote:
Voyager wrote:Zero. Or at least, none do at Columbia.

I-Banks want people who understand modeling and are good at math. They like to hire former big 3 consulting BAs and people from top business schools.

Or are you referring to analyst positions; the positions normally given to undergrads?

I am rather surprised that Goldman Sachs takes part in UVA's OCI given that they have their pick of the very top business schools. Why not just recruit more MBA kids who actually spent a couple of years learning something that has to do with their business?


My impression was that GS was only looking for a select number of UVA students who either had WE in the financial industry already and/or were tracking into our law and business program with a heavy business background in UG


What do you mean by heavy business background? Do you think being a business administration major with IB internships is strong enough of a background?

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby clintonius » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:04 pm

Verity wrote:
A&O wrote:
clintonius wrote:I'm not in a position to know whether any i-banks participate in OCI at all, but my general understanding is that they hire people with a few years of (usually) biglaw experience under their belt for in-house positions.


...and these positions are mostly attained by S&C associates.

Before ITE, S&C associates even seconded to Goldman for long stretches of time. It's also rumored that some partners' offices have direct lines to Goldman Sachs (though that might have changed since Goldman moved to the WTC area and is no longer across the street).



How's S&C been with hiring new grads this last year? I've had my eye on that firm for a while.

According to NALP, they took 104 summer associates last year. That's about as big a class as I've heard of, though my money is on virtually all of them being top 10% or better, and most from the t14.

Edit: sorry, that was the number of summers for 2009.
Last edited by clintonius on Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby bostlaw » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:05 pm

Veyron wrote:You be thinking of consulting brah?

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby A'nold » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:11 pm

*picture of Jim Cramer*

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:16 pm

The V10 in NYC are largely so profitable & prestigious because of the legal work that they do for banks, and S&C isn't really unique in that regard.

S&C and DPW are basically the undisputed kings of capital markets / corporate finance work. S&C and Goldman have a history, but these days Goldman uses many other firms and many other banks use S&C - too much is going on for things to be that lock-step. Name a huge bank / hedge fund / PE shop and there's probably a firm in the NYC V10 that does most of its work in certain areas.

In all of the deals that make up big / prestigious / headline grabbing firm work, there are almost always several law firms. Firms representing corporations, boards, and banks. The "more prestigious" / more profitable firms are often the ones either representing the banks or representing corporations involved in the biggest deals where the biggest fees stand to be made.

But most importantly, they also often see one another "across the table" at deals. I had one callback interview at Cravath where the partner spent the entire time talking about going toe-to-toe with Wachtell attorneys on a recent deal.

Anyway, as a consequence, most of the V10 NYC firms have very close connections to a wide number of financial institutions, and exit options to them are if not common at least very plausible. S&C is hardly the only law firm with close banking ties / exit options.

This is a somewhat helpful link: http://www.vault.com/wps/portal/usa/vcm ... king?id=99

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby Renzo » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:The V10 in NYC are largely so profitable & prestigious because of the legal work that they do for banks, and S&C isn't really unique in that regard.

...

Anyway, as a consequence, most of the V10 NYC firms have very close connections to a wide number of financial institutions, and exit options to them are if not common at least very plausible. S&C is hardly the only law firm with close banking ties / exit options.


This is true. On any given deal, each bank needs a firm, each corp. needs a firm, each board may need separate counsel, there may be independent committees that need counsel, etc. No bank can only use one firm, so all the V10 NYC firms (and then some) will have close ties to banks.

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby A&O » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:21 pm

This is true. On any given deal, each bank needs a firm, each corp. needs a firm, each board may need separate counsel, there may be independent committees that need counsel, etc. No bank can only use one firm, so all the V10 NYC firms (and then some) will have close ties to banks.


The prestige of firms tends to drop off after counsels for the target and parent. You'll see places like DLA Piper and Baker & McKenzie represent underwriters, for example.

Also, WLRK doesn't tend to represent large financial institutions. Their expertise is in representing the target in M&A, especially hostile M&A.

S&C is hardly the only law firm with close banking ties / exit options.


For sure. And these relationships aren't just there because these firms represent these banks a lot. It's just entrenched relationships established many decades ago.

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby Renzo » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:32 pm

A&O wrote:
This is true. On any given deal, each bank needs a firm, each corp. needs a firm, each board may need separate counsel, there may be independent committees that need counsel, etc. No bank can only use one firm, so all the V10 NYC firms (and then some) will have close ties to banks.


The prestige of firms tends to drop off after counsels for the target and parent. You'll see places like DLA Piper and Baker & McKenzie represent underwriters, for example.

Also, WLRK doesn't tend to represent large financial institutions. Their expertise is in representing the target in M&A, especially hostile M&A.

S&C is hardly the only law firm with close banking ties / exit options.


For sure. And these relationships aren't just there because these firms represent these banks a lot. It's just entrenched relationships established many decades ago.



I'm going to take this as an agreement with my post. Yes, some firms do more finance work than others, and those would be better options for someone who wants to work at a bank specifically. And yes, the more prestigious firms got to be more prestigious by having bigger/better/more impressive clients, so your opportunities to lateral in-house to a client will vary accordingly. But it's not as if S&C has some magic that Cravath (for example) doesn't. And no Wachtell associate is going to be laughed out of the building when he shows up to apply for an in-house job at a bank, even if securities/banking work isn't what made the firm famous.

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Re: Number of I-Bank firms that recruit at T10 schools

Postby A&O » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:34 pm

But it's not as if S&C has some magic that Cravath (for example) doesn't. And no Wachtell associate is going to be laughed out of the building when he shows up to apply for an in-house job at a bank, even if securities/banking work isn't what made the firm famous.


Oh you're absolutely right.

Though I'd go so far as to say that I think S&C associates have an advantage when applying in-house into Goldman, as do Simpson associates when applying to KKR/Blackstone and DPW associates when applying to Citibank/Morgan.




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