Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

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Wholigan
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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby Wholigan » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:33 am

JethroTull wrote:Current Temple 3L here with Philly Biglaw. My class went through perhaps the worst OCI in history, and it was only through sheer determination and luck that I landed a 2L summer gig which became a full time offer. The vast majority of my classmates, and the vast majority of those on law review for that matter, were not as lucky. As we speak, there are editors of the law review still scrambling for jobs. That being said, other than Penn, Temple is still your best shot if you want to work biglaw in Philly and c/o 2013 and 14 should have it much easier. Good Luck.


Why do you say determination and luck? Did many of your fellow SAs get no-offered? I'm just curious if you are referring to your experience at OCI, during your 2L summer, or both. Mind sharing your ranking?

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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby JethroTull » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:15 pm

I guess luck isn't the right word, it's just when you see so many accomplished people being shut out, you have to feel a little lucky. I'm a good interviewer and I worked really, really hard during the summer, so that had to help. Plus I had a pretty impressive 1L summer job and substantive work experience before law school. Everyone in my SA class received offers. As for rank, I was top 10% after 1L year though that's definitely dropped by now.

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Wholigan
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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby Wholigan » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:55 pm

JethroTull wrote:I guess luck isn't the right word, it's just when you see so many accomplished people being shut out, you have to feel a little lucky. I'm a good interviewer and I worked really, really hard during the summer, so that had to help. Plus I had a pretty impressive 1L summer job and substantive work experience before law school. Everyone in my SA class received offers. As for rank, I was top 10% after 1L year though that's definitely dropped by now.


Thanks, very helpful. I'm a 1L now. I have to think you need to interview very well ITE on top of grades to up your chances. I have been waiting for the 2010 SA data to come out. In 2009 the offer rate was under 50% for Philly Biglaw, so it's nice to hear everyone got an offer at your firm. This thread is kind of confusing as some are saying above top 5% is almost a lock at Temple/Nova. What's the highest 1L rank you know of being shut out?

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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby JethroTull » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:36 pm

Wholigan wrote:
JethroTull wrote:I guess luck isn't the right word, it's just when you see so many accomplished people being shut out, you have to feel a little lucky. I'm a good interviewer and I worked really, really hard during the summer, so that had to help. Plus I had a pretty impressive 1L summer job and substantive work experience before law school. Everyone in my SA class received offers. As for rank, I was top 10% after 1L year though that's definitely dropped by now.


Thanks, very helpful. I'm a 1L now. I have to think you need to interview very well ITE on top of grades to up your chances. I have been waiting for the 2010 SA data to come out. In 2009 the offer rate was under 50% for Philly Biglaw, so it's nice to hear everyone got an offer at your firm. This thread is kind of confusing as some are saying above top 5% is almost a lock at Temple/Nova. What's the highest 1L rank you know of being shut out?


I don't discuss grades or rank w/ my classmates. I just know who's on law review and that's kind of the status symbol you go by in law school. Like I said, there are several on law review right now still looking for jobs, and plenty of editors on other journals in the same boat. Just be glad you went to law school when you did and good luck in September. PM me if you want any firm specific advice or interview help.

I came across this the other day which is relevant to this thread: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

As you can see, Temple and Nova's Placement in the NLJ250 are virtually identical at 11% each. Though, I'd bet more students at Nova are gunning for biglaw than at Temple. So when you take that into account, and the massive difference in tuition (instate), Temple>Nova is a no brainer. Unless you like watching an overrated basketball team.

Anonymous User
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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:40 am

At my Philly Big Law firm's offered student reception, I took a look at all the name tags when I got there, which listed everyone's school. There was significantly (2x) more Temple students than Nova.

PS: I'm not a student at either school, so don't accuse me of bias.

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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby kopper » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:56 am

JethroTull wrote:
Wholigan wrote:
JethroTull wrote:I guess luck isn't the right word, it's just when you see so many accomplished people being shut out, you have to feel a little lucky. I'm a good interviewer and I worked really, really hard during the summer, so that had to help. Plus I had a pretty impressive 1L summer job and substantive work experience before law school. Everyone in my SA class received offers. As for rank, I was top 10% after 1L year though that's definitely dropped by now.


Thanks, very helpful. I'm a 1L now. I have to think you need to interview very well ITE on top of grades to up your chances. I have been waiting for the 2010 SA data to come out. In 2009 the offer rate was under 50% for Philly Biglaw, so it's nice to hear everyone got an offer at your firm. This thread is kind of confusing as some are saying above top 5% is almost a lock at Temple/Nova. What's the highest 1L rank you know of being shut out?


I don't discuss grades or rank w/ my classmates. I just know who's on law review and that's kind of the status symbol you go by in law school. Like I said, there are several on law review right now still looking for jobs, and plenty of editors on other journals in the same boat. Just be glad you went to law school when you did and good luck in September. PM me if you want any firm specific advice or interview help.

I came across this the other day which is relevant to this thread: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

As you can see, Temple and Nova's Placement in the NLJ250 are virtually identical at 11% each. Though, I'd bet more students at Nova are gunning for biglaw than at Temple. So when you take that into account, and the massive difference in tuition (instate), Temple>Nova is a no brainer. Unless you like watching an overrated basketball team.


JT, were you on Law Review. What are you thoughts on Law Review for someone that wants Big Law? Is it worth the time commitment or better to focus on grades? I would expect the time commitments for Law Review have a negative impact on grades.

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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby phillaw » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:15 pm

focusing on grades is not a valid reason to turn down law review. for one, there is no guarantee you will actually use that extra time studying or that the extra studying will pay off on exam day. law review sucks up time, but it can really only help and not hurt, especially in 2L OCI.

if you have top grades, you MUST have an answer for "why not law review?" in an interview. first, 2L OCI recruiters sort resumes by law review/journal and not. if you are in the not law review/journal pile, they may either toss your resume or consider you if your 1L GPA is above their benchmark. if they do interview you, you will need to provide a good answer as to why you chose not to do law review (i.e. other legitimate job commitments). think of it like this...the interviewer likely did law review/journal while in law school, so they want to know what you can't?

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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby Wholigan » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:41 pm

Agree with the last post. I have talked to a number of biglaw partners and all said they are looking for law review. It's not going to affect the grades that matter. Think about it - they are hiring you based on your 1L grades. The earliest you are going to be doing any work on law review is summer after 1L, so any impact on grades is not going to be on the grades that matter. If you don't like it, you can drop law review after 2L if you have your job offer sewn up, if your school allows that.

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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby Veyron » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:53 pm

I was about to poast a snarky reply but I think I shall just weep softly for OP.

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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby mettasutta » Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:44 pm

How hard would it be for a grad from a T20/T30 in neighboring regions (i.e. BC, BU, GW, W&M, etc.) who has ties to Philly? Would they have preference over a Temple/Villanova grad given similar class rank?

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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby 2LLLL » Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:02 pm

JT, were you on Law Review. What are you thoughts on Law Review for someone that wants Big Law? Is it worth the time commitment or better to focus on grades? I would expect the time commitments for Law Review have a negative impact on grades.



By the time law review starts affecting your grades, they don't really matter any more unless you're gunning for a clerkship. In any event, you'll be off the 1L curve and less people are gunning at that point as well so it's easier to pull down a higher GPA.

If you can do Law Review you definitely should. As an above poster noted, you'll have to have an answer for why you're not doing it. And as another above poster noted, your interviewer was probably on law review, so he/she isn't really going to buy your "well I was more interested in moot court" argument. Sure the work for it sucks, but its a credential that will stick with you for the rest of your career and will definitely open doors.

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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby keg411 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:19 pm

mettasutta wrote:How hard would it be for a grad from a T20/T30 in neighboring regions (i.e. BC, BU, GW, W&M, etc.) who has ties to Philly? Would they have preference over a Temple/Villanova grad given similar class rank?


The only way you can figure this out is if you search websites for the Philly firms you are interested in to see if they have any associates from these schools (how many, how recently they were hired, LR/Honors, etc.).

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gbpackerbacker
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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby gbpackerbacker » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:22 pm

Not to hijack, but how difficult is it to get Philly BigLaw from Penn?

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Veyron
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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby Veyron » Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:10 pm

gbpackerbacker wrote:Not to hijack, but how difficult is it to get Philly BigLaw from Penn?


Philly biglaw doesn't exist.

Seriously, no one has anything but ancidotal evidence at this point, the post-recession numbers haven't been released yet. I'd say probaby easier than at any school but H and Y, but still. . . not as easy as NYC.

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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby mettasutta » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:27 pm

Veyron wrote:
gbpackerbacker wrote:Not to hijack, but how difficult is it to get Philly BigLaw from Penn?


Philly biglaw doesn't exist.

Seriously, no one has anything but ancidotal evidence at this point, the post-recession numbers haven't been released yet. I'd say probaby easier than at any school but H and Y, but still. . . not as easy as NYC.


How about S?

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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby OGR3 » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:33 pm

Veyron wrote:
gbpackerbacker wrote:Not to hijack, but how difficult is it to get Philly BigLaw from Penn?


Philly biglaw doesn't exist.

Seriously, no one has anything but ancidotal evidence at this point, the post-recession numbers haven't been released yet. I'd say probaby easier than at any school but H and Y, but still. . . not as easy as NYC.


Blatant anti-Drexel trolling.

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Veyron
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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby Veyron » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:44 pm

mettasutta wrote:
Veyron wrote:
gbpackerbacker wrote:Not to hijack, but how difficult is it to get Philly BigLaw from Penn?


Philly biglaw doesn't exist.

Seriously, no one has anything but ancidotal evidence at this point, the post-recession numbers haven't been released yet. I'd say probaby easier than at any school but H and Y, but still. . . not as easy as NYC.


How about S?


S usually doesn't place as well on the east coast as on the west. Also, S sends so few people to Philly even during years for which #s are available that it would be virtually impossible to construct a meaningful comparison.

Blatant anti-Drexel trolling.


I doubt anyone cares enough to troll against Drexel.

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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby mettasutta » Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:09 pm

OGR3 wrote:
Veyron wrote:
gbpackerbacker wrote:Not to hijack, but how difficult is it to get Philly BigLaw from Penn?


Philly biglaw doesn't exist.

Seriously, no one has anything but ancidotal evidence at this point, the post-recession numbers haven't been released yet. I'd say probaby easier than at any school but H and Y, but still. . . not as easy as NYC.


Blatant anti-Drexel trolling.


Drexel has good name recognition in the greater Philadelphia region, but I'd be wary of attending a brand new school that lacks much of an alumni network, although the signature co-op program is a good way of making contacts and getting hands-on experience. If you're dead set on Philly and can't get T14, Temple/Villanova with a generous, stipulation-free scholarship wouldn't be a bad idea by any means.

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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby arvcondor » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:43 am

Veyron wrote:I was about to poast a snarky reply but I think I shall just weep softly for OP.
Damn, we went an entire page and a half before Veyron received his Google alert for snark potential.

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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby mettasutta » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:12 am

gbpackerbacker wrote:Not to hijack, but how difficult is it to get Philly BigLaw from Penn?


From what I've heard anecdotally on here from a Penn 3L (johnnyutah), Penn grads in the Philly market are looked upon with suspicion as they have a reputation for using Philly for internships, clinics, summer jobs, etc. and then hitting the road for larger markets like NYC. They are also sometimes seen as unwilling to do grunt work. Said 3L wishes he had gone to Temple and accrued a smaller debt load. Again, this is only the perspective of one student; maybe Veyron could chime in with a different point of view.

Generally, a T14 or a strong NE school (BC/BU) on substantial scholarship + ties to Philly are better options.

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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby keg411 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:37 am

mettasutta wrote:
gbpackerbacker wrote:Not to hijack, but how difficult is it to get Philly BigLaw from Penn?


From what I've heard anecdotally on here from a Penn 3L (johnnyutah), Penn grads in the Philly market are looked upon with suspicion as they have a reputation for using Philly for internships, clinics, summer jobs, etc. and then hitting the road for larger markets like NYC. They are also sometimes seen as unwilling to do grunt work. Said 3L wishes he had gone to Temple and accrued a smaller debt load. Again, this is only the perspective of one student; maybe Veyron could chime in with a different point of view.

Generally, a T14 or a strong NE school (BC/BU) on substantial scholarship + ties to Philly are better options.


I know you mentioned this before, but I'm still skeptical on this (unless you did the research and saw a ton of BU/BC associates at Philly firms).

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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby mettasutta » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:59 am

keg411 wrote:
mettasutta wrote:
gbpackerbacker wrote:Not to hijack, but how difficult is it to get Philly BigLaw from Penn?


From what I've heard anecdotally on here from a Penn 3L (johnnyutah), Penn grads in the Philly market are looked upon with suspicion as they have a reputation for using Philly for internships, clinics, summer jobs, etc. and then hitting the road for larger markets like NYC. They are also sometimes seen as unwilling to do grunt work. Said 3L wishes he had gone to Temple and accrued a smaller debt load. Again, this is only the perspective of one student; maybe Veyron could chime in with a different point of view.

Generally, a T14 or a strong NE school (BC/BU) on substantial scholarship + ties to Philly are better options.


I know you mentioned this before, but I'm still skeptical on this (unless you did the research and saw a ton of BU/BC associates at Philly firms).


Not a ton, but a non-negligible amount at the Philadelphia offices of firms like Dechert, Drinker Biddle, Ballard Spahr, etc. Also, I have strong ties to Philly, which should help somewhat, right?

Either way, I'd be equally fine with working with working in markets that BC feeds more into (Boston and the rest on New England)

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Wholigan
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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby Wholigan » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:55 am

mettasutta wrote:
keg411 wrote:
mettasutta wrote:
gbpackerbacker wrote:Not to hijack, but how difficult is it to get Philly BigLaw from Penn?


From what I've heard anecdotally on here from a Penn 3L (johnnyutah), Penn grads in the Philly market are looked upon with suspicion as they have a reputation for using Philly for internships, clinics, summer jobs, etc. and then hitting the road for larger markets like NYC. They are also sometimes seen as unwilling to do grunt work. Said 3L wishes he had gone to Temple and accrued a smaller debt load. Again, this is only the perspective of one student; maybe Veyron could chime in with a different point of view.

Generally, a T14 or a strong NE school (BC/BU) on substantial scholarship + ties to Philly are better options.


I know you mentioned this before, but I'm still skeptical on this (unless you did the research and saw a ton of BU/BC associates at Philly firms).


Not a ton, but a non-negligible amount at the Philadelphia offices of firms like Dechert, Drinker Biddle, Ballard Spahr, etc. Also, I have strong ties to Philly, which should help somewhat, right?

Either way, I'd be equally fine with working with working in markets that BC feeds more into (Boston and the rest on New England)


Check NALP Directory also. It looks like a pretty decent handful of Philly firms go to OCI at Fordham and GW, and not so much at BC/BU. Being from Philly would probably help, since the Philly legal market is known for being kind of insular.

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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby mettasutta » Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:49 pm

Wholigan wrote:
Check NALP Directory also. It looks like a pretty decent handful of Philly firms go to OCI at Fordham and GW, and not so much at BC/BU. Being from Philly would probably help, since the Philly legal market is known for being kind of insular.


Thanks, Wholigan, I will check that out. But would a top 15% candidate from those BC/BU/Fordham/GW who has ties to Philly be preferred over a top 15% candidate from local schools like Temple/Villanova (and I might add Rutgers-Camden, Widener, etc.)?

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Wholigan
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Re: Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple.

Postby Wholigan » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:24 pm

mettasutta wrote:
Wholigan wrote:
Check NALP Directory also. It looks like a pretty decent handful of Philly firms go to OCI at Fordham and GW, and not so much at BC/BU. Being from Philly would probably help, since the Philly legal market is known for being kind of insular.


Thanks, Wholigan, I will check that out. But would a top 15% candidate from those BC/BU/Fordham/GW who has ties to Philly be preferred over a top 15% candidate from local schools like Temple/Villanova (and I might add Rutgers-Camden, Widener, etc.)?


I would be totally guessing, but I would imagine that a top 10% (or 15%) with Philly ties from BU/BC/Fordham/GW would have the same chances as top 10% (or 15%) from Temple/Nova/Rutgers, and you'd have to beat them out with better interviewing instead of just relying on your school rank. I looked at a few attorney profiles and it looks like most GW/BC/BU/Fordham people (from a small sample size) have latin honors, high honors, etc, which is the same rank as you'd need to be competitive from the Philly T2s. Alumni networks count.




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