BigLaw in Asia- Same hiring timeline? Forum

[nconlon45]

I am a 2L who did not get an offer in OCI. Do I have a chance of getting a summer position in China/Japan/India/Singapore, etc. if I start applying now?

[thexfactor]

what rank school are you at? T3 T14? T1? T^2? T^3?

Are you from asia?

[nconlon45]

Not from Asia. School is ranked 45-55 depending on the year (so I guess T2?). top 40% GPA, but top 20% excluding 1L first semester (not sure if that's relevant).

[iShotFirst]

Barring great personal connections its not possible. These countries have their own law students from their own top law schools that they offer summer positions to. Also some of these countries do not recognize all US law schools- for example if you want to apply to the equivalent of the bar in Singapore, you have to have a degree from one of five or six schools: Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Chicago, etc. With that system for employment, I can't imagine that the firms would accept less for summer. The closest you are going to get to those countries is unpaid internship (some schools have them on offer) or study abroad.

Best not even to waste your time, frankly.

[nconlon45]

I would be happy with an unpaid internship. How would that affect my career opportunities here/abroad?

Also, what do you mean by "on offer?" My school has a fellowship program for "China, Japan, India, or in a country with an emerging market" so I assume they must get some recognition in those countries.

[174]

1L Disclaimer
I might be wrong, but I think nearly all international work requires a few years of experience in M&A or capital markets.

[treeey86]

Ishotfirst is completely wrong. I go to a T20-30. A friend of mine is doing biglaw in Asia. Yes biglaw is still interviewing now for offices in Asia. Yes, if you want to do litigation you need to pass the respective countries' bar, which requires you go to their law school and get their law degree. BUT, if you are doing transactional then a US JD is fine ( and from my understanding actually preferred). In Asia there is the notion that US education > domestic education. Remember the deals that the biglaw firms in Asia are representing typically are between a US company and an Asian company.

However, there are different tracks in Asia because of the "apprentice" component of a legal degree. Meaning that SA are not like SA in the US. You might possibly be lumped into the apprenticeship summer program at an asian biglaw firm where you will work with other law students who need to work at a firm in order to graduate. This means low pay ( think like $2k a month)but same amount of stress, hours, and work as a typical SA in the US. Keep in mind CoL is a lot different in Asia, and so is the pay scale. Full time associates might make NYC hours, but there are also associates there on a different pay scale as well. Or maybe because you are from the US they might give you a traditional SA program. I dont know, and from what I understand it could vary based on the firm.

However, to be frank, top 40% from a lower T1 might not cut it. The grades won't necessarily close the interviewing door off to you, but they dont put you at the top. Plenty of top tier students from top tier schools are going for Asian markets. My friend worked previously in Asia for 4 years before law school and I think that helped him get the job. Good luck applying.

Also be forewarned the legal culture there is crueler than here. His experience was that the partners would literally scream and treat the associates like shit all the time. Even throw stuff at associates. Never any positive feedback. Make sure you know what you are getting into. For him, he has family there and wants to settle down in Asia so he doesnt mind the abuse to get there.

[nconlon45]

Thanks. Appreciate the frankness. Any other perspectives?

[Nicholasnickynic]

You realize that if you cant get a job in your law school's back yard... its going to be extremely hard to be an international baller? I mean, is this question for real?

[nconlon45]

Never looked into it honestly. Didn't know that working abroad and being a baller went hand in hand.

[Anonymous User]

Couple people in my class know me on here, so outtable info.

T20, 2 years Asian (Singapore/China/Japan) WE, conversant in the target region language (not fluent), studied abroad there in UG, UG focus there. Good LS grades.

Think I have a shot next year? (1L currently)

[Anonymous User]

Couple people in my class know me on here, so outtable info.

T20, 2 years Asian (Singapore/China/Japan) WE, conversant in the target region language (not fluent), studied abroad there in UG, UG focus there. Good LS grades.

Think I have a shot next year? (1L currently)

I've worked in Asia at both a local non-US firm and at a branch office of a US firm hence anonymous, easily identifiable.

I think some of you guys need some perspective. To the above poster, do you have a shot? Certainly. Would it be the best move for your career? Definitely not. Asian offices of US firms, and there are exceptions of course, generally focus on just a few practice areas and as a junior associate your experience would be extremely narrow compared to entering the general corporate division of the same firm in their head office stateside and transferring to their asia offices a few years later. You want to start out in the US so you can build up contacts within the firm and so that you can get broad exposure to lots of different types of problems so that when you do go to Asia you won't be crippled as a senior associate because you can only work on "X" kind of deals in case you have to lateral to a different firm or want to make partner.

Starting at a foreign firm might as well be career suicide so don't even bother thinking about it. They'll hire you but you'll likely just be an editor checking the real local lawyer's english in documents and when it comes time to head home and get a job as a lawyer you will get no credit for time spent doing that. If you want to work for a foreign firm your best bet would be to move in as a senior associate and basically be able to run things or else you will never be trusted with important work and won't get the required training to make the jump to be able to one day run things.

Of course there are exceptions and some firms have huge offices in Asia where you'll be able to get good experience doing a variety of things. But if you're really shooting for Hong Kong/Singapore/Tokyo you'll be doing yourself a huge benefit by grinding out a few years in a major US market learning the ropes first. Expat packages can be dramatically different based on your experience as well, something to consider.

[Anonymous User]

Couple people in my class know me on here, so outtable info.

T20, 2 years Asian (Singapore/China/Japan) WE, conversant in the target region language (not fluent), studied abroad there in UG, UG focus there. Good LS grades.

Think I have a shot next year? (1L currently)

I've worked in Asia at both a local non-US firm and at a branch office of a US firm hence anonymous, easily identifiable.

I think some of you guys need some perspective. To the above poster, do you have a shot? Certainly. Would it be the best move for your career? Definitely not. Asian offices of US firms, and there are exceptions of course, generally focus on just a few practice areas and as a junior associate your experience would be extremely narrow compared to entering the general corporate division of the same firm in their head office stateside and transferring to their asia offices a few years later. You want to start out in the US so you can build up contacts within the firm and so that you can get broad exposure to lots of different types of problems so that when you do go to Asia you won't be crippled as a senior associate because you can only work on "X" kind of deals in case you have to lateral to a different firm or want to make partner.

Starting at a foreign firm might as well be career suicide so don't even bother thinking about it. They'll hire you but you'll likely just be an editor checking the real local lawyer's english in documents and when it comes time to head home and get a job as a lawyer you will get no credit for time spent doing that. If you want to work for a foreign firm your best bet would be to move in as a senior associate and basically be able to run things or else you will never be trusted with important work and won't get the required training to make the jump to be able to one day run things.

Of course there are exceptions and some firms have huge offices in Asia where you'll be able to get good experience doing a variety of things. But if you're really shooting for Hong Kong/Singapore/Tokyo you'll be doing yourself a huge benefit by grinding out a few years in a major US market learning the ropes first. Expat packages can be dramatically different based on your experience as well, something to consider.

Diff Person here:


Sorry to steal the OP's thread....
I currently have a SA job in a city that I do not really want to work in. My program is 8 weeks long and ends in mid July. I know how tough the market is and I was thinking about hedging my risks. I was looking at major US firms in HK. They have 4-6 week programs at their offices in HK. How competitive are these jobs?
Is it just as competitive for these jobs as normal biglaw?
Also, do you know if it is easy to get an offer after you do the 4 week program?

Thanks

[Anonymous User]

Couple people in my class know me on here, so outtable info.

T20, 2 years Asian (Singapore/China/Japan) WE, conversant in the target region language (not fluent), studied abroad there in UG, UG focus there. Good LS grades.

Think I have a shot next year? (1L currently)

I've worked in Asia at both a local non-US firm and at a branch office of a US firm hence anonymous, easily identifiable.

I think some of you guys need some perspective. To the above poster, do you have a shot? Certainly. Would it be the best move for your career? Definitely not. Asian offices of US firms, and there are exceptions of course, generally focus on just a few practice areas and as a junior associate your experience would be extremely narrow compared to entering the general corporate division of the same firm in their head office stateside and transferring to their asia offices a few years later. You want to start out in the US so you can build up contacts within the firm and so that you can get broad exposure to lots of different types of problems so that when you do go to Asia you won't be crippled as a senior associate because you can only work on "X" kind of deals in case you have to lateral to a different firm or want to make partner.

Starting at a foreign firm might as well be career suicide so don't even bother thinking about it. They'll hire you but you'll likely just be an editor checking the real local lawyer's english in documents and when it comes time to head home and get a job as a lawyer you will get no credit for time spent doing that. If you want to work for a foreign firm your best bet would be to move in as a senior associate and basically be able to run things or else you will never be trusted with important work and won't get the required training to make the jump to be able to one day run things.

Of course there are exceptions and some firms have huge offices in Asia where you'll be able to get good experience doing a variety of things. But if you're really shooting for Hong Kong/Singapore/Tokyo you'll be doing yourself a huge benefit by grinding out a few years in a major US market learning the ropes first. Expat packages can be dramatically different based on your experience as well, something to consider.

Diff Person here:


Sorry to steal the OP's thread....
I currently have a SA job in a city that I do not really want to work in. My program is 8 weeks long and ends in mid July. I know how tough the market is and I was thinking about hedging my risks. I was looking at major US firms in HK. They have 4-6 week programs at their offices in HK. How competitive are these jobs?
Is it just as competitive for these jobs as normal biglaw?
Also, do you know if it is easy to get an offer after you do the 4 week program?

Thanks

shameless bump

[Nicholasnickynic]

Couple people in my class know me on here, so outtable info.

T20, 2 years Asian (Singapore/China/Japan) WE, conversant in the target region language (not fluent), studied abroad there in UG, UG focus there. Good LS grades.

Think I have a shot next year? (1L currently)

Yes, this is what it takes. You have to be a baller. I mean, if you tell people you are an international lawyer who works across the world... i mean c'mon, i mean, really?