MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Sean1269
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby Sean1269 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:12 am

If you're in your first year, give it another semester. You will figure it out. Keep in mind that if you "just" want a legal job there will be opportunities, albeit not your dream ones, but they still exist. Not to mention if you're in your first year, getting a job is 2.5 years away so try your best not to make any rash decisions about something that is years away.

On the flip side, if you're maxed and really feel like you won't figure out how to take a law school test (which has no bearing on how good of a lawyer you will be), and you hate school, yourself, and life, then yes you should seriously consider dropping out.

Keep in mind (if you're thinking years in advance rather than just now), the market will eventually recover, so if you have to take a non-legal job first then so be it, plenty of lawyers have done that in previous recessions.

User avatar
worldtraveler
Posts: 7667
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:47 am

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:15 am

Ignatius Reilly wrote:I was under the impression that PI jobs are some of the most difficult to get


They look at entirely different qualifications. A good transcript is often not one of those. I have yet to have an employer even request a transcript.

User avatar
20160810
Posts: 19648
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 pm

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby 20160810 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:12 am

worldtraveler wrote:
Ignatius Reilly wrote:I was under the impression that PI jobs are some of the most difficult to get


They look at entirely different qualifications. A good transcript is often not one of those. I have yet to have an employer even request a transcript.

What other qualifications are there?

Do they just ask for a scrapbook of Whole Foods receipts and photos of you riding a fixed-gear bike? I cannot fathom an employer, PI or otherwise, that would be utterly unconcerned with grades.

Curry

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby Curry » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:16 am

Sean1269 wrote:If you're in your first year, give it another semester. You will figure it out. Keep in mind that if you "just" want a legal job there will be opportunities, albeit not your dream ones, but they still exist. Not to mention if you're in your first year, getting a job is 2.5 years away so try your best not to make any rash decisions about something that is years away.


DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS. There are more lawyers each year than there are legal jobs. Saying "there will be opportunities" isn't optimistic, its not naive. And OCI is next fall, not 2.5 years away. This post is wrong. Just no.

User avatar
sundance95
Posts: 2123
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby sundance95 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:27 am

SBL wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
Ignatius Reilly wrote:I was under the impression that PI jobs are some of the most difficult to get


They look at entirely different qualifications. A good transcript is often not one of those. I have yet to have an employer even request a transcript.

What other qualifications are there?

Do they just ask for a scrapbook of Whole Foods receipts and photos of you riding a fixed-gear bike? I cannot fathom an employer, PI or otherwise, that would be utterly unconcerned with grades.


180

User avatar
edcrane
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:28 pm

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby edcrane » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:19 am

Unless you have good reasons to believe that you can improve a great deal this semester, I'd suggest dropping out. Bottom of the class is not a good place to be ITE. Particularly since student loans are effectively nondischargable in bankruptcy.

User avatar
edcrane
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:28 pm

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby edcrane » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:32 am

Morgan12Oak wrote:to be honest with you guys, if you are considering coming to the T14 at sticker... or any law school at sticker and you are genuinely worried about being in the bottom 10%, there probably is a good chance you'll be the bottom 10% and maybe you should reconsider.


I think you're mistaken. In law school, pessimism correlates positively with success. http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/pessimistic_lawyers_more_successful_study_finds/. And what we're talking about here probably isn't rightly called pessimism. It's closer to objectivity. Without first attending law school, it's impossible to know where you'll fall along the curve. Although it's relatively unlikely that any one person entering the class will end up in the bottom (or top) 10%, it would be foolhardy to ignore the consequences of landing in that position.

michigan_man
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:45 pm

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby michigan_man » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:38 am

Curry wrote:
Sean1269 wrote:If you're in your first year, give it another semester. You will figure it out. Keep in mind that if you "just" want a legal job there will be opportunities, albeit not your dream ones, but they still exist. Not to mention if you're in your first year, getting a job is 2.5 years away so try your best not to make any rash decisions about something that is years away.


DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS. There are more lawyers each year than there are legal jobs. Saying "there will be opportunities" isn't optimistic, its not naive. And OCI is next fall, not 2.5 years away. This post is wrong. Just no.


You are grossly uninformed about the public interest hiring process. It has little or nothing to do with OCI, and most hiring takes place during the 3L year.

As for a couple posters above: general public interesest job hiring (not the super prestigious, practically unobtainable impact litigation jobs) is done with much less emphasis on grades. The local prosecuting office is going to hire the guy from MVP in the bottom quarter with two summers of prosecutorial experience and a criminal clinic rather than the guy in the top 1/4 who interned for a judge before working at a V5 for the summer.

worldtraveler wrote:
Ignatius Reilly wrote:I was under the impression that PI jobs are some of the most difficult to get


They look at entirely different qualifications. A good transcript is often not one of those. I have yet to have an employer even request a transcript.


This is correct.

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:44 am

michigan_man wrote:You are grossly uninformed about the public interest hiring process. It has little or nothing to do with OCI, and most hiring takes place during the 3L year.

As for a couple posters above: general public interesest job hiring (not the super prestigious, practically unobtainable impact litigation jobs) is done with much less emphasis on grades. The local prosecuting office is going to hire the guy from MVP in the bottom quarter with two summers of prosecutorial experience and a criminal clinic rather than the guy in the top 1/4 who interned for a judge before working at a V5 for the summer.

This is technically true, but irrelevant, especially ITE. They both get beaten out by the person who has above-median grades and two summers of prosecutorial experience. Or by the experienced prosecutor who got laid off by their big-city office due to budget cuts and will take a new job just about anywhere.

The emphasis isn't focused on grades, but the applicants-to-jobs ratio is so high right now that even PI orgs are enjoying their pick of folks.

bdubs
Posts: 3729
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby bdubs » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:57 am

I realize this dude has grades that are bottom of the class bad, but why does everyone use median as the cut point? If everyone below median dropped out the attrition would be ridiculous and the curves would f*ck over a lot of good students the next semester. It seems kind of arbitrary to say that half of the students in a T14 suck and should consider dropping out.

truevines
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:16 pm

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby truevines » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:24 am

bdubs wrote:I realize this dude has grades that are bottom of the class bad, but why does everyone use median as the cut point? If everyone below median dropped out the attrition would be ridiculous and the curves would f*ck over a lot of good students the next semester. It seems kind of arbitrary to say that half of the students in a T14 suck and should consider dropping out.


In this hypo, then, there would be 1/2 supply of t14 law students. But the number of BigLaw jobs remains the same. I guess you would see 90%-100% OCIP offer rate and 90% of t14 graduates getting BigLaw salaries.

rose711
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:57 pm

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby rose711 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:05 pm

What did you decide to do? I hate advising people to drop out - but I think that would have been a smart decision. If you decided to stick it out, do your best but don't take it personally if you don't improve. Not everyone is cut out to do well in law school even if they work hard and study all the time. Just don't be down on yourself. If you leave, don't look back.

Good luck!

User avatar
LLB2JD
Posts: 745
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:32 pm

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby LLB2JD » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:11 pm

Morgan12Oak wrote:I just feel as if those who genuinely fear being in the bottom 10% would generally have a substantially higher chance at being in the bottom 10% than one who genuinely feels they will be above median.



:?

User avatar
lolschool2011
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:14 pm

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby lolschool2011 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Class has already started. GPA is about a 2.78 on a 3.3 curve.

Should I drop out?

Goals: I just want a legal job. I don't care how much money I make. Plus, my school has a good LRAP program if that means anything...


Why anonymous?

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:44 pm

lolschool2011 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Class has already started. GPA is about a 2.78 on a 3.3 curve.

Should I drop out?

Goals: I just want a legal job. I don't care how much money I make. Plus, my school has a good LRAP program if that means anything...

Why anonymous?

Don't make posts like this. If you think a post is misusing the anon feature, then flag it.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=130748

Future discussion about use of the anon feature should go in the Mod Q&A thread in the lounge, and should stop here.

User avatar
worldtraveler
Posts: 7667
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:47 am

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:16 pm

SBL wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
Ignatius Reilly wrote:I was under the impression that PI jobs are some of the most difficult to get


They look at entirely different qualifications. A good transcript is often not one of those. I have yet to have an employer even request a transcript.

What other qualifications are there?

Do they just ask for a scrapbook of Whole Foods receipts and photos of you riding a fixed-gear bike? I cannot fathom an employer, PI or otherwise, that would be utterly unconcerned with grades.


experience, language ability, rank of school, commitment to issues, clinic work, volunteering...

2LLLL
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:38 pm

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby 2LLLL » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:36 pm

This is technically true, but irrelevant, especially ITE. They both get beaten out by the person who has above-median grades and two summers of prosecutorial experience. Or by the experienced prosecutor who got laid off by their big-city office due to budget cuts and will take a new job just about anywhere.

The emphasis isn't focused on grades, but the applicants-to-jobs ratio is so high right now that even PI orgs are enjoying their pick of folks.




This is very credited. You can't act like PI is some kind of back-up plan if you do bad 1L year and can't get BigLaw. There are people on LR at my school who didn't even participate in OCI because they are committed to being an ADA/PD.

The OP is a weak applicant to an ADA or PD. Your local ADA or PD office isn't composed of a bunch of prestige-conscious T14 grads. With a limited budget for new hires (if any) an ADA or PD is not going to hire a bottom 10% student from MVP over a top student from a lower rated school who really wants to do criminal law.

OP I hate to dash your dreams here, but if you're paying sticker you really should drop out, its that bad out there. Sure you may end up getting a legal job, but think really hard about whether the type of job that will be available to you is what you want. Are you willing to work in personal injury/insurance defense/foreclosure or bankruptcy mill for $40k a year or less? While having six figures of nondischargeable debt?

Look at the responses in this thread- everyone telling you to stay is a 0L, it seems like most of the people telling you to drop out are current law students. Credit accordingly.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273331
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:00 pm

NVM

Anonymous User
Posts: 273331
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:52 pm

OP here.
Got the last few grades and GPA is above a 3.0. Next semester, i will improve. On a lighter note, I have gotten a lot of preselects for both PI/Firms.

Thanks all for your input.

User avatar
fatduck
Posts: 4186
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby fatduck » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here.
Got the last few grades and GPA is above a 3.0. Next semester, i will improve. On a lighter note, I have gotten a lot of preselects for both PI/Firms.

Thanks all for your input.


wait, you were gonna drop out before you even had all your grades? that's ridiculous (on your school's part, i mean)

User avatar
soullesswonder
Posts: 553
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:36 pm

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby soullesswonder » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:59 pm

fatduck wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here.
Got the last few grades and GPA is above a 3.0. Next semester, i will improve. On a lighter note, I have gotten a lot of preselects for both PI/Firms.

Thanks all for your input.


wait, you were gonna drop out before you even had all your grades? that's ridiculous (on your school's part, i mean)


On the one hand, it's ridiculous that OP had to make this decision before all his grades were in. On the other hand, I would have had a different perspective if I knew OP had more than one or two data points on his exam capabilities.

User avatar
lisjjen
Posts: 1242
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:19 am

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby lisjjen » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:02 pm

truevines wrote:
bdubs wrote:I realize this dude has grades that are bottom of the class bad, but why does everyone use median as the cut point? If everyone below median dropped out the attrition would be ridiculous and the curves would f*ck over a lot of good students the next semester. It seems kind of arbitrary to say that half of the students in a T14 suck and should consider dropping out.


In this hypo, then, there would be 1/2 supply of t14 law students. But the number of BigLaw jobs remains the same. I guess you would see 90%-100% OCIP offer rate and 90% of t14 graduates getting BigLaw salaries.


Because everyone ever only wants biglaw.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273331
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:02 pm

soullesswonder wrote:
fatduck wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here.
Got the last few grades and GPA is above a 3.0. Next semester, i will improve. On a lighter note, I have gotten a lot of preselects for both PI/Firms.

Thanks all for your input.


wait, you were gonna drop out before you even had all your grades? that's ridiculous (on your school's part, i mean)


On the one hand, it's ridiculous that OP had to make this decision before all his grades were in. On the other hand, I would have had a different perspective if I knew OP had more than one or two data points on his exam capabilities.


no, I had 3/4 grades. The last one turned out to be really well. I am still below the 25% but it's better than being dead last....
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273331
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:03 pm

OP-

Did you have any sort of regional connections to the firms you got pre-selects for? Solid WE? I had ~top5% and didn't get any pre-selects.

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:04 pm

fatduck wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here.
Got the last few grades and GPA is above a 3.0. Next semester, i will improve. On a lighter note, I have gotten a lot of preselects for both PI/Firms.

Thanks all for your input.

wait, you were gonna drop out before you even had all your grades? that's ridiculous (on your school's part, i mean)

This.

Also, if OP got one grade good enough to pull a 2.8 up to a 3.0, they better figure out what they did right on that test and make sure they do it again.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.