MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

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MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:55 pm

Class has already started. GPA is about a 2.78 on a 3.3 curve.

Should I drop out?

Goals: I just want a legal job. I don't care how much money I make. Plus, my school has a good LRAP program if that means anything...

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Cavalier
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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby Cavalier » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:56 pm

Yes

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:56 pm

Cavalier wrote:Yes


OP here.
seriously? I am willing to give second semester another shot.

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby Cavalier » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Cavalier wrote:Yes

OP here.
seriously? I am willing to give second semester another shot.

2Ls and 3Ls with above median grades are not finding jobs. You're likely going to have a very tough time finding something with that GPA. If your grades last semester were mostly median and you just got screwed with a C, you can probably figure out what you did wrong and move on, and graduate with a decent GPA. But if your individual grades last semester were mostly in the 2.8 range, law school might not be for you.

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:09 pm

Cavalier wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Cavalier wrote:Yes

OP here.
seriously? I am willing to give second semester another shot.

2Ls and 3Ls with above median grades are not finding jobs. You're likely going to have a very tough time finding something with that GPA. If your grades last semester were mostly median and you just got screwed with a C, you can probably figure out what you did wrong and move on, and graduate with a decent GPA. But if your individual grades last semester were mostly in the 2.8 range, law school might not be for you.


Grades were around that range. I have always wanted on being a lawyer. But I am not stupid. I am taking out the max. Willing to work it out thought.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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glewz
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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby glewz » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:10 pm

Wait for a more substantive answer before you cave OP. IMHO, it's on a case by case basis; some factors to consider are:
- Financial aid
- Specific legal job target(s)
- Your confidence in making As
- Your conference with your law school adviser (if you haven't done this...you should)

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vanwinkle
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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:11 pm

glewz wrote:Wait for a more substantive answer before you cave OP. IMHO, it's on a case by case basis; some factors to consider are:
- Financial aid
- Specific legal job target(s)
- Your confidence in making As
- Your conference with your law school adviser (if you haven't done this...you should)

Seriously? OP has a 2.78 and said all their grades were in that range. Their confidence in making As is probably extraordinarily low and quite frankly should be.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:12 pm

Cavalier wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Cavalier wrote:Yes

OP here.
seriously? I am willing to give second semester another shot.

2Ls and 3Ls with above median grades are not finding jobs. You're likely going to have a very tough time finding something with that GPA. If your grades last semester were mostly median and you just got screwed with a C, you can probably figure out what you did wrong and move on, and graduate with a decent GPA. But if your individual grades last semester were mostly in the 2.8 range, law school might not be for you.


This is advice that is worth taking. Many on here think that T14 = $$$. But getting into a T14 (to which I am not experienced in) is far different from making it and doing well at a T14 (from friends who have succeeded and friends who have not).

I know you "just want to find a job." But the fact is that ITE, "just finding a job" is very difficult, even from a school with reputations like MVP.

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby glewz » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:13 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
glewz wrote:Wait for a more substantive answer before you cave OP. IMHO, it's on a case by case basis; some factors to consider are:
- Financial aid
- Specific legal job target(s)
- Your confidence in making As
- Your conference with your law school adviser (if you haven't done this...you should)

Seriously? OP has a 2.78 and said all their grades were in that range. Their confidence in making As is probably extraordinarily low and quite frankly should be.



I did say "some factors to consider." Confidence in making As should surely be considered should OP have experienced a health illness.

I'm just being general here since situation-specific details were not provided...

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vanwinkle
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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:16 pm

glewz wrote:I did say "some factors to consider." Confidence in making As should surely be considered should OP have experienced a health illness.

I'm just being general here since situation-specific details were not provided...

So you're trying to invent rationales for why someone with OP's grades, but factors that OP hasn't given, would stay in school? How is that helpful at all?

If there was something specific like that I'm pretty sure OP would've mentioned it. You don't start with "I got a 2.8 last semester and don't know what to do" and then finally add four replies later "by the way I had legitimate non-repeating reasons for doing badly my first semester so I should do much better in the spring".

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:19 pm

Although I do appreciate all the comments. Does anyone have any opinions directly related to my inquiry?

If I have to drop, I most likely have to talk to someone soon.... (as in tomorrow)

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby glewz » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:25 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
glewz wrote:I did say "some factors to consider." Confidence in making As should surely be considered should OP have experienced a health illness.

I'm just being general here since situation-specific details were not provided...

So you're trying to invent rationales for why someone with OP's grades, but factors that OP hasn't given, would stay in school? How is that helpful at all?

If there was something specific like that I'm pretty sure OP would've mentioned it. You don't start with "I got a 2.8 last semester and don't know what to do" and then finally add four replies later "by the way I had legitimate non-repeating reasons for doing badly my first semester so I should do much better in the spring".


Well...did I invent some rationale? Or did I leave my advice open-ended?

Rather than give him a flat-out "drop out" response, I chose to be a bit more situation sensitive. This is because, like you or any regular poster on this forum, I don't know what circumstances surround his decision.

Obviously, everyone is having a tough time getting jobs. It doesn't take a particularly experienced student's/legal professional's advice to know that those with bottom-rung grades are hung out to dry. Should they drop out school? That's a serious question that deserves evaluation from many standpoints.

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:29 pm

All else being equal, yes, I would drop out if I were you. If you want a legal job, try to become a paralegal. That way, you can be 100% sure if the legal profession is for you without going into extreme debt first. Then, if/when the economy turns around, you can re-apply (and considering you're in a T14 as it is, you should have little trouble getting back in).

This is just my opinion. Others may disagree

Edit for grammar fail.
Last edited by MrPapagiorgio on Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby glewz » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Although I do appreciate all the comments. Does anyone have any opinions directly related to my inquiry?

If I have to drop, I most likely have to talk to someone soon.... (as in tomorrow)


Did you want to work in a particular state? Career counselor would be a good bet, though I'd take any administrator's persuasion with a grain of salt - they would, of course, not like to have anyone leave the school.

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:30 pm

glewz wrote:Well...did I invent some rationale? Or did I leave my advice open-ended?

glewz wrote:Confidence in making As should surely be considered should OP have experienced a health illness.

Next question.

glewz wrote:Rather than give him a flat-out "drop out" response, I chose to be a bit more situation sensitive. This is because, like you or any regular poster on this forum, I don't know what circumstances surround his decision.

Generally, if there are relevant special circumstances, I'll assume that either 1) OP gave them or 2) OP will respond and go "by the way how does this change things?" after giving advice that's specific to their no-special-circumstances-are-mentioned original post.

Plus, there's absolutely nothing situation-sensitive about telling someone who obviously has little/no chance of getting As to consider how confident they are in getting As in the future.

glewz wrote:Obviously, everyone is having a tough time getting jobs. It doesn't take a particularly experienced student's/legal professional's advice to know that those with bottom-rung grades are hung out to dry. Should they drop out school? That's a serious question that deserves evaluation from many standpoints.

Are you a 0L?

OP, you should definitely talk to someone tomorrow about dropping out and what the deadline is to get tuition refunded this semester. Hopefully you have the opportunity to drop out before you're liable for spring tuition and fees. Honestly, if that happens it might be worth it to stick it out and try to improve, since you're paying for the classes either way... but only because you have no choice to get the money back.

If you can drop out and avoid paying spring tuition, that's a good thing for you, since it means you're escaping with far less debt.

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:32 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:All else being equal, yes, I would drop out if I were you. If you want a legal job, try to become a paralegal. That way, you can be 100% sure if the legal profession is for you without going into extreme debt first. Then, if/when the economy turns around, you can re-apply (and considering your in a T14 as it is, you should have little trouble getting back in).

This is just my opinion. Others may disagree.


It is not that easy to "drop out and reapply" and I do have previous paralegal experienced. I worked at a biglaw firm for three years as a paralegal before coming to law school.
I had many scholarship opportunities before coming to my school. I rejected a scholarship at a t20.

Any more advice? Seriously advice please. This is pretty much a decision of my life.

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Class has already started. GPA is about a 2.78 on a 3.3 curve.

Should I drop out?

Goals: I just want a legal job. I don't care how much money I make. Plus, my school has a good LRAP program if that means anything...

Yup. Unless you REALLY don't care how much you make because that may end up being 0.
Last edited by Kohinoor on Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:All else being equal, yes, I would drop out if I were you. If you want a legal job, try to become a paralegal. That way, you can be 100% sure if the legal profession is for you without going into extreme debt first. Then, if/when the economy turns around, you can re-apply (and considering your in a T14 as it is, you should have little trouble getting back in).

This is just my opinion. Others may disagree.


It is not that easy to "drop out and reapply" and I do have previous paralegal experienced. I worked at a biglaw firm for three years as a paralegal before coming to law school.
I had many scholarship opportunities before coming to my school. I rejected a scholarship at a t20.

Any more advice? Seriously advice please. This is pretty much a decision of my life.


Anonymous User wrote:Although I do appreciate all the comments. Does anyone have any opinions directly related to my inquiry?

If I have to drop, I most likely have to talk to someone soon.... (as in tomorrow)


With all due respect dude, I gave you advice "directly related" to your inquiry. I understand it is not that easy to drop out and reapply. But you asked a yes/no question. What "advice" are you looking for other than that?

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LLB2JD
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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby LLB2JD » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:43 pm

Quick question? What was your LSAT and UGPA? I am asking because I am curious as to the validity of "LSAT is a strong indicator of 1L performance" thing.

I hope you're able to make the best decision for you.

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby dresden doll » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:48 pm

Realistically, you probably should take Cavalier's advice. That said, you appear to really not want to drop out. I'd give it another semester considering your seeming attachment to the idea of being a lawyer before quitting,just to make sure you have little to nothing to regret.

Note that I'm biased in the matter because I irrationally hate the idea of quitting.

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby glewz » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:53 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
glewz wrote:Well...did I invent some rationale? Or did I leave my advice open-ended?

glewz wrote:Confidence in making As should surely be considered should OP have experienced a health illness.

Next question.


Now would this be characterized as inventing rationale to justify him staying in school? Or would this be more open-ended than that? I know what I posted, and there was nothing wrong with what I said.

vanwinkle wrote:Generally, if there are relevant special circumstances, I'll assume that either 1) OP gave them or 2) OP will respond and go "by the way how does this change things?" after giving advice that's specific to their no-special-circumstances-are-mentioned original post.

Plus, there's absolutely nothing situation-sensitive about telling someone who obviously has little/no chance of getting As to consider how confident they are in getting As in the future.


Does this consider the fact that you just told him a reason for which it might be acceptable to stay in school? Was your advice based on a hypothetical you've just generated?

Because OP's own post was so short, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that there are either (1) important considerations OP didn't think of or (2) additional information not provided?

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby CG614 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:56 pm

Don't listen to these people. Kill it this semester and you will be fine. You can BS a bad first semester as learning curve or something. If you 2.8 it again next semester, then maybe think about what you want to achieve with your degree.

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby keg411 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:08 pm

OP: do you have anything lined up for 1L summer yet?

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:09 pm

I'm going to assume that you are at UM since you say you need to drop by tomorrow and that is the deadline. Yes, you can get your money back tomorrow. But you probably should have figured out the answer to this question before tonight. If you can, make an appointment with the Dean of Student Affairs.

This question is difficult and really comes down to what you want to do with your career. You probably aren't going to get a BIGLAW job, but even that isn't totally impossible if you get some A's and B's next semester and you aren't set on working in Washington D.C. or San Francisco. You probably should make an appointment to talk to Career Services ASAP.

You mention the LRAP, so maybe you are interested in public interest? A lot of public interest jobs are not grade contingent. Rather, you have to show a demonstrated interest in and commitment to a particular field. This will go a long way to making up for one poor semester. If you want to do public interest, joining a clinic and doing relevant summer work will help you get a job more than above-median grades. Will you be working for the ACLU right away? No. But nobody else does that right out of law school either. Can you get a fulfilling job with a legal aid society and crappy grades from MVP? Sure.

You need to think about why you are in law school before you think about dropping out. If you were doing this to be at a big firm and make $160,000 starting, that door is almost closed. You won't get a prestigious clerkship. But you can still have a great career in the law. If you like law school and your future expectations can still be achieved with bad grades, I would say wait another semester before revisiting this.

Also, treat advice on this site with the skepticism that it deserves. Most of the people who post on here are biglaw-or-bust types who only want to make $$$ at a V5 firm. For them, it would be stupid not to drop out at this point. For you...only you can answer that.

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Re: MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8....

Postby joemoviebuff » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:13 pm

Found this over in the UVA 2L thread:

The only info on grade distributions I've been able to find (other than median and top 25%) was from the UVA Law Blog:

Top 10%: 3.65
Top 25%: 3.48
Top 33%: 3.42
Median: 3.3
Bottom 33%: 3.18
Bottom 25%: 3.12
Bottom 10%: 2.95


Not to hijack the thread, but as someone attending UVA next year, is there is a definitive percentile below which one absolutely should drop out? How far up would the OP have to go to dig himself out of "definitely drop out" territory?




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