Michigan 3.5, NYC/DC/SF chances

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Anonymous User
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Michigan 3.5, NYC/DC/SF chances

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:36 pm

Michigan summer starter (so I have grades for all but one 1L class). 3.5 now, which will most likely get to about a 3.6 but let's assume 3.5. Though feel free to mention if your calculus changes with the .1 bump.

Where should I aim at OCI for NYC/DC/SF in the V100? I've heard DC and SF are both tough markets to crack.

Thanks!

Informative
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Re: Michigan 3.5, NYC/DC/SF chances

Postby Informative » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:30 am

NYC/DC/SF? You went to Michigan to get into these markets? You have a chance, but it is not going to be easy from Michigan, especially in NYC where people think Michigan is cow country.

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verdandi
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Re: Michigan 3.5, NYC/DC/SF chances

Postby verdandi » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:37 am

I couldn't disagree more with the above statement. NYC is probably the easiest market for Michigan if weak hiring in Chicago continues. DC and SF are challenging markets but not out of reach. Look at the Career Services website -- they have grade distributions for firms from all of these areas (behind the firewall), so you can get some idea of what GPA each firm expects. Also, I highly recommend reaching out to current Michigan 2Ls that bid on these markets last OCI for advice. I'm a Michigan 2L and I bid exclusively on NYC last year, so feel free to PM me if you have specific questions about that market.

TheStrand
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Re: Michigan 3.5, NYC/DC/SF chances

Postby TheStrand » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:49 am

Informative wrote:NYC/DC/SF? You went to Michigan to get into these markets? You have a chance, but it is not going to be easy from Michigan, especially in NYC where people think Michigan is cow country.

Hahahaha.

http://www.law.umich.edu/careers/factsa ... tions.aspx
http://www.law.umich.edu/careers/factsa ... firms.aspx

"More specifically, 272 went to New York City, 110 to Washington, D.C., 167 to Chicago, 22 to Boston, 45 to Los Angeles, and 52 to the California Bay Area." That's a lot of cattle farmers.

BeenDidThat
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Re: Michigan 3.5, NYC/DC/SF chances

Postby BeenDidThat » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:52 am

Informative wrote:NYC/DC/SF? You went to Michigan to get into these markets? You have a chance, but it is not going to be easy from Michigan, especially in NYC where people think Michigan is cow country.


Dude, everyone who matters knows Michigan has a great law school. It's not like firms staff their hiring committees with average joes from Yonkers.

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RVP11
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Re: Michigan 3.5, NYC/DC/SF chances

Postby RVP11 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:00 pm

Informative wrote:NYC/DC/SF? You went to Michigan to get into these markets? You have a chance, but it is not going to be easy from Michigan, especially in NYC where people think Michigan is cow country.


NYC is by far the easiest market to get from Michigan. And every other T14 school.

OP: with a 3.5, if you interview decently you will get offers in NYC. Be careful not to put too many (or any) bids on DC and SF. You have virtually no chance at SF without some decent ties and your grades are very borderline for DC.

cattail
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Re: Michigan 3.5, NYC/DC/SF chances

Postby cattail » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:15 pm

anyone has info on the cutoff GPA for NYC v5, v10, v50 etc...
the school has median GPA for the firms, but i am more interested in the cutoff

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20160810
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Re: Michigan 3.5, NYC/DC/SF chances

Postby 20160810 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:17 pm

From what I've heard you should probably split bids between NYC and ONE of SF or DC to maximize your chances.

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verdandi
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Re: Michigan 3.5, NYC/DC/SF chances

Postby verdandi » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:44 am

cattail wrote:anyone has info on the cutoff GPA for NYC v5, v10, v50 etc...
the school has median GPA for the firms, but i am more interested in the cutoff


I don't think firms really work this way (but I wish they did!). While I am confident that there is a minimum GPA each firm is looking for, that doesn't necessarily mean they are barred from calling back a candidate with some other exceptional quality (e.g., connections to the firm, great interview skills, experience in law/finance/tech, etc.). Furthermore, even if those GPA cut-offs exist, I would guess they would change somewhat year to year depending on the firm's needs. This volatility likely increased over the past five years, so historical data might not be all that instructive.

Given my experience, which is completely anecdotal and very possibly idiosyncratic, I would say that +/- 0.1 off the GPA average should give you a rule of thumb for a range of GPAs which are in the running for a callback, all else equal. So if Firm A has an average callback GPA of 3.5, then anyone from a 3.4 to a 3.6 would be strongly in the running, and of course students with GPAs > 3.6 have an even stronger chance. That is absolutely not to say that students in that range are guaranteed a callback; in this economy, no one is guaranteed anything.

Good luck.

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Lawlcat
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Re: Michigan 3.5, NYC/DC/SF chances

Postby Lawlcat » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:38 pm

I strongly recommend taking a look at this fantastic thread:

"Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI"
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=135739

I don't have hard data to back this up, but based on what I've heard, with a 3.5 you're going to be doing very, very nicely at OCI, whichever market you aim for. But that's no excuse not to heed the advice noted above.

As for medians: honestly, the data OCS provides is almost as harmful as it is helpful. It averages over a huge span of time and gives "median GPA" rather than actual data points. My suspicion is that some firms are extremely GPA-sensitive, such that there's a near-perfect correlation between GPA and odds of success, while others really don't care as long as they're neither very low nor amazing, and still others lie somewhere between these first two types. It's really hard to tell and unfortunately the OCS data doesn't do much to elucidate the situation.

cornellbeez
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Re: Michigan 3.5, NYC/DC/SF chances

Postby cornellbeez » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:39 pm

Really, really well in NYC. I think you have a decent shot at some v10s in NYC. (When I bid I divided about 1/3 reaches, 1/3 safeties, 1/3 targets. People tend not to bid on v10s, so I would rank them lower than some safeties.)

DC - I know someone with a 3.4X and landed DC, but barely. With a 3.5, you're probably much more in the ballpark.

Nobody I knew bid on SF this year, but I know a person in a previous year who sweeped multiple offers from multiple top biglaw firms with a 3.5/3.6ish.

I think you're in great shape.

You don't need ties for NYC or DC, but you do need ties for SF.
Last edited by cornellbeez on Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: Michigan 3.5, NYC/DC/SF chances

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:45 pm

From what I know,

1) You are in very good shape for NYC so long as you bid and interview reasonably.

2) You probably need some ties for SF no matter what your GPA is (in contrast to LA).

3) For DC, I know people with ~3.4 getting an offer through resume dropping, and I know people with LR grades who almost struck out. In any event, bear in mind that it is a relatively small market which is also GPA demanding in general.

4) OCS is probably going to tell you to bid on no more than two markets. Some people think it makes sense, others think it is pure crap. It would probably be a judgment call depending on your unique personal situations. However, given 2), I probably won't spend many bids on SF if I don't have significant ties.

Good luck.

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Lawlcat
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Re: Michigan 3.5, NYC/DC/SF chances

Postby Lawlcat » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:26 am

cornellbeez wrote:Really, really well in NYC. Had a lower GPA and had offers in the v20. I think you have a decent shot at v10s in NYC. (When I bid I divided about 1/3 reaches, 1/3 safeties, 1/3 targets. People tend not to bid on v10s, so I would rank them lower than some safeties.)


If we're going to treat Vault as USNWR, you should frame your advice in terms of the V14.

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Re: Michigan 3.5, NYC/DC/SF chances

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:06 am

Landed V100 SF as slightly-above-median (3.3x) this year from Michigan. Some students above that GPA may have struck out without strong ties, but you'll have a decent chance with many firms there if you maintain the 3.5 and have ties.

Your grades won't bar you from many NYC firms, but some of the most selective will still be out of reach. The reach of your grades in DC will vary based on the firm.




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