Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

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A'nold
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Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby A'nold » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:47 pm

Possible? Does it matter if your grades are good enough to have graded onto LR or is a journal basically a requirement? What about for lower state court type clerkships?

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby Big Shrimpin » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:15 pm

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Last edited by Big Shrimpin on Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

2LLLL
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Re: Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby 2LLLL » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:23 pm

I've heard that publications are a HUGE plus for clerkships, so my feeling would be that not being a journal member would be a fairly major red flag. If you are in a position like the transfer above, then you could probably explain away thelack of journal membership in an interview, though it might be tough to get an interview in the first place...

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby Big Shrimpin » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:25 pm

2LLLL wrote:I've heard that publications are a HUGE plus for clerkships, so my feeling would be that not being a journal member would be a fairly major red flag. If you are in a position like the transfer above, then you could probably explain away thelack of journal membership in an interview, though it might be tough to get an interview in the first place...



Access...precisely my fear.

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A'nold
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Re: Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby A'nold » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:58 pm

Yeah, I missed the write-on competition....which REALLY sucks b/c I think something like 2 out of the 5 or so transfers to try it got on. :cry: I'm almost positive I could have written on.

I think I'm going to try to get onto some kind of journal for 3L year, if possible.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby Big Shrimpin » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:36 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
2LLLL wrote:I've heard that publications are a HUGE plus for clerkships
Meh. They matter, but they aren't "huge" as far as I can tell, much less "HUGE." In my chambers, they're a tiebreaker at most, and are considerably less important than grades, recs, and school. Might be on the same tier as LR board position, non-LS resume factors, etc.

As to OP's question, journal service matters, but it isn't an absolute prerequisite. So you could probably land *something* without it.


A glimmer of hope on a horizon of despair...back to waiting for grades.....

twistedwrister
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Re: Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby twistedwrister » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:13 pm

I'm not on a journal and will be doing a D. Ct. clerkship next year and a CoA clerkship (2/9/D.C.) the following year. It's possible, but I had a bunch of other things going for me (great grades and recs, profs willing to make calls for me, and a few publications).

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A'nold
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Re: Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby A'nold » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:45 am

twistedwrister wrote:I'm not on a journal and will be doing a D. Ct. clerkship next year and a CoA clerkship (2/9/D.C.) the following year. It's possible, but I had a bunch of other things going for me (great grades and recs, profs willing to make calls for me, and a few publications).



What kind of great grades are we talking about. Also, what rank of school and do you think that the publications were a big part of your offer? Thanks. :)

twistedwrister
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Re: Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby twistedwrister » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:02 am

A'nold wrote:
twistedwrister wrote:I'm not on a journal and will be doing a D. Ct. clerkship next year and a CoA clerkship (2/9/D.C.) the following year. It's possible, but I had a bunch of other things going for me (great grades and recs, profs willing to make calls for me, and a few publications).



What kind of great grades are we talking about. Also, what rank of school and do you think that the publications were a big part of your offer? Thanks. :)


No prob. NYU, top 2-3%, and almost all the judges asked about my publications during my interviews.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:16 pm

A'nold wrote:Possible? Does it matter if your grades are good enough to have graded onto LR or is a journal basically a requirement? What about for lower state court type clerkships?


For federal clerkships, it's possible, but not very probable. Federal court clerkships are competitive! Really, really competitive. And it doesn't matter if you are only applying to judges in locations such as the middle of nowhere Montana, those judges get 300+ applications per clerkship as well.

Lower state courts- sure (although journal would still help there). Even with the bad economy, there doesn't seem to be a ton of competition for lower level state court clerkships (probably because t14 grads don't want to do the type of work that, e.g., typical state trial court clerks do after their clerkships). Just make sure you have good ties to the locations you apply to and mention them in your cover letter. Going to a local state school helps as well since a lot of those lower level state court judges went to law school at local state schools.

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Re: Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:25 pm

Anything is possible...

But from what I've seen, almost every federal clerk and every state appellate clerk has done a journal. I've known of one journal-less person to get an interview with a federal judge, but he went to Harvard. I've known law review kids to work state trial clerkships, although I would venture to say that most have not done a journal. All state appellate law clerks (intermediate included) that I've known had a journal. I'm currently a state intermediate appellate law clerk. Of the five people who started with me, we all did law review except for one. That person had a journal and went to a T20 school.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby Helmholtz » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:36 pm

IIRC, something like 15% of the people from my school who get COA clerkships weren't on any journal and something like 25% who get fed district clerkships weren't on any journal either.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:14 pm

Helmholtz wrote:IIRC, something like 15% of the people from my school who get COA clerkships weren't on any journal and something like 25% who get fed district clerkships weren't on any journal either.


Is this a pre-ITE figure?

FWIW, it wasn't uncommon for someone at median at my school to lock up a fed district courts in not popular locations (e.g. central district of illinois) pre-ITE. Things have definetely gotten a LOT more competitive, largely because so many people can't find jobs anymore.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby Helmholtz » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:24 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:IIRC, something like 15% of the people from my school who get COA clerkships weren't on any journal and something like 25% who get fed district clerkships weren't on any journal either.


Is this a pre-ITE figure?

FWIW, it wasn't uncommon for someone at median at my school to lock up a fed district courts in not popular locations (e.g. central district of illinois) pre-ITE. Things have definetely gotten a LOT more competitive, largely because so many people can't find jobs anymore.


I think it was a combination of the last six years.

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SteelReserve
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Re: Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby SteelReserve » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:58 pm

Lower state courts- sure (although journal would still help there). Even with the bad economy, there doesn't seem to be a ton of competition for lower level state court clerkships (probably because t14 grads don't want to do the type of work that, e.g., typical state trial court clerks do after their clerkships). Just make sure you have good ties to the locations you apply to and mention them in your cover letter. Going to a local state school helps as well since a lot of those lower level state court judges went to law school at local state schools.


While I agree a lot of T14 types aren't going for trial level, they are only a small percentage of total law school grads, and I have to say at least in my non-flyover state, the trial level clerkships are extremely competitive ITE. One judge had over 400 resumes to pick from. So many students, including well-ranked students, in my graduating class do not have jobs and were completely unable to secure trial level clerkships despite going on numerous interviews.

A'nold if you can get a journal even as a 3L I say go for it, every bit helps.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:11 pm

SteelReserve wrote:One judge had over 400 resumes to pick from. So many students, including well-ranked students, in my graduating class do not have jobs and were completely unable to secure trial level clerkships despite going on numerous interviews.


:shock: :shock: :shock:

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ggocat
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Re: Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby ggocat » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:58 am

XxSpyKEx wrote:
SteelReserve wrote:One judge had over 400 resumes to pick from. So many students, including well-ranked students, in my graduating class do not have jobs and were completely unable to secure trial level clerkships despite going on numerous interviews.


:shock: :shock: :shock:

edit: woops, thought it was about federal.
Last edited by ggocat on Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A'nold
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Re: Clerkships without journal of any kind.....

Postby A'nold » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:19 pm

SteelReserve wrote:
Lower state courts- sure (although journal would still help there). Even with the bad economy, there doesn't seem to be a ton of competition for lower level state court clerkships (probably because t14 grads don't want to do the type of work that, e.g., typical state trial court clerks do after their clerkships). Just make sure you have good ties to the locations you apply to and mention them in your cover letter. Going to a local state school helps as well since a lot of those lower level state court judges went to law school at local state schools.


While I agree a lot of T14 types aren't going for trial level, they are only a small percentage of total law school grads, and I have to say at least in my non-flyover state, the trial level clerkships are extremely competitive ITE. One judge had over 400 resumes to pick from. So many students, including well-ranked students, in my graduating class do not have jobs and were completely unable to secure trial level clerkships despite going on numerous interviews.

A'nold if you can get a journal even as a 3L I say go for it, every bit helps.


Thanks. I will definitely look into it. I don't NEED a clerkship I guess but I feel like I would really enjoy it and learn a lot.




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