Below Median at t10 school Forum

[Anonymous User]

Perhaps I'm overreacting. I'm a 1L at a t10 school and I just got a straight B on an exam where I was expecting a B+. This worries me because I fear a very real possibility of ending this term with a B, B-, and some other unknown grade. This would put me below median at the end of my first semester (median is close to a B+). Am I fucked for OCI for 2L unless I get near straight A's this semester?

[Veyron]

Perhaps I'm overreacting. I'm a 1L at a t10 school and I just got a straight B on an exam where I was expecting a B+. This worries me because I fear a very real possibility of ending this term with a B, B-, and some other unknown grade. This would put me below median at the end of my first semester (median is close to a B+). Am I fucked for OCI for 2L unless I get near straight A's this semester?

Although I have not yet received any grades, i am also curious.

[Anonymous User]

Depending on how badly you did. BTW: I know someone in the same situation as you. From my understanding if you are below median (as in 2.8-3.0) you might be screwed. However, if you have more of a 3.2 and (you are a hair below median) you might be saved. People do get CBs if they have a 3.1/3.2 but it takes a lot of work.

OP-Have you gotten a b- and a b too?

[Veyron]

Depending on how badly you did. BTW: I know someone in the same situation as you. From my understanding if you are below median (as in 2.8-3.0) you might be screwed. However, if you have more of a 3.2 and (you are a hair below median) you might be saved. People do get CBs if they have a 3.1/3.2 but it takes a lot of work.

OP-Have you gotten a b- and a b too?

What sort of work?

[Anonymous User]

Depending on how badly you did. BTW: I know someone in the same situation as you. From my understanding if you are below median (as in 2.8-3.0) you might be screwed. However, if you have more of a 3.2 and (you are a hair below median) you might be saved. People do get CBs if they have a 3.1/3.2 but it takes a lot of work.

OP-Have you gotten a b- and a b too?

I've gotten the B so far, but based on my post-exam feelings for another class, I fear a B- or another B. I have no idea what to expect in my other class.

[Anonymous User]

Depending on how badly you did. BTW: I know someone in the same situation as you. From my understanding if you are below median (as in 2.8-3.0) you might be screwed. However, if you have more of a 3.2 and (you are a hair below median) you might be saved. People do get CBs if they have a 3.1/3.2 but it takes a lot of work.

OP-Have you gotten a b- and a b too?

What sort of work?

I thought it was obvious. Sorry. CB=Call backs. So firms.

[Veyron]

Depending on how badly you did. BTW: I know someone in the same situation as you. From my understanding if you are below median (as in 2.8-3.0) you might be screwed. However, if you have more of a 3.2 and (you are a hair below median) you might be saved. People do get CBs if they have a 3.1/3.2 but it takes a lot of work.

OP-Have you gotten a b- and a b too?

What sort of work?

I thought it was obvious. Sorry. CB=Call backs. So firms.

No silly billy, what sort of work does it take to land callbacks below median?

[Anonymous User]

Depending on how badly you did. BTW: I know someone in the same situation as you. From my understanding if you are below median (as in 2.8-3.0) you might be screwed. However, if you have more of a 3.2 and (you are a hair below median) you might be saved. People do get CBs if they have a 3.1/3.2 but it takes a lot of work.

OP-Have you gotten a b- and a b too?

What sort of work?

I thought it was obvious. Sorry. CB=Call backs. So firms.

No silly billy, what sort of work does it take to land callbacks below median?

Really work on your interview skills. Really nail everything down and use your bids wisely. It's a shot (a slim one at that). But you have to work hard. ALSO: do better next semester so you have an upwards trend.

[Veyron]

[/quote]

Really work on your interview skills. Really nail everything down and use your bids wisely. It's a shot (a slim one at that). But you have to work hard. ALSO: do better next semester so you have an upwards trend.[/quote]

Slim, huh. Any idea as to what % of the 66-50% kids manage to land CBs who bid NY?

[Anonymous User]

Depending on how badly you did. BTW: I know someone in the same situation as you. From my understanding if you are below median (as in 2.8-3.0) you might be screwed. However, if you have more of a 3.2 and (you are a hair below median) you might be saved. People do get CBs if they have a 3.1/3.2 but it takes a lot of work.

OP-Have you gotten a b- and a b too?

What sort of work?

I thought it was obvious. Sorry. CB=Call backs. So firms.

No silly billy, what sort of work does it take to land callbacks below median?

Take every interview they slot you for at OCI and then write in for every open slot. Personalized letters to every big/midlaw firm in any state you have ties to. You need a shit ton of interviews because your job depends on you clicking perfectly with your interviewer so much that they ignore your GPA.

[vanwinkle]

You are overreacting. This would be like someone asking what law schools they could get into based on one section of the LSAT. We need the total score to give a meaningful answer.

Actually this is rather like all those threads where people ask based on practice LSAT scores. The only appropriate answer here is "find out what your GPA is and come back and we'll tell you."

[Anonymous User]

You are overreacting. This would be like someone asking what law schools they could get into based on one section of the LSAT. We need the total score to give a meaningful answer.

Actually this is rather like all those threads where people ask based on practice LSAT scores. The only appropriate answer here is "find out what your GPA is and come back and we'll tell you."

Yeah dude just chill out a bit. I was freaking out just like you at this time last year (B-'s for my first two grades), and figured life was essentially over. Needless to say, I ended up doing fine in my other classes, and despite having a 3.21 (below median at my school) at the end of 1L year, ended up landing a job at a V15 firm. Point is, grades are important, however they will neither make nor break you when it comes to job time. Good interview skills can completely compensate for a few bad grades, however good grades will NEVER compensate for poor interview/social skills. My advice would be to do the best you can and understand that no grades mathematically eliminate you, even in this market.

[BruceWayne]

You are overreacting. This would be like someone asking what law schools they could get into based on one section of the LSAT. We need the total score to give a meaningful answer.

Actually this is rather like all those threads where people ask based on practice LSAT scores. The only appropriate answer here is "find out what your GPA is and come back and we'll tell you."

Yeah dude just chill out a bit. I was freaking out just like you at this time last year (B-'s for my first two grades), and figured life was essentially over. Needless to say, I ended up doing fine in my other classes, and despite having a 3.21 (below median at my school) at the end of 1L year, ended up landing a job at a V15 firm. Point is, grades are important, however they will neither make nor break you when it comes to job time. Good interview skills can completely compensate for a few bad grades, however good grades will NEVER compensate for poor interview/social skills. My advice would be to do the best you can and understand that no grades mathematically eliminate you, even in this market.

What school do you attend?

[Veyron]

You are overreacting. This would be like someone asking what law schools they could get into based on one section of the LSAT. We need the total score to give a meaningful answer.

Actually this is rather like all those threads where people ask based on practice LSAT scores. The only appropriate answer here is "find out what your GPA is and come back and we'll tell you."

Yeah dude just chill out a bit. I was freaking out just like you at this time last year (B-'s for my first two grades), and figured life was essentially over. Needless to say, I ended up doing fine in my other classes, and despite having a 3.21 (below median at my school) at the end of 1L year, ended up landing a job at a V15 firm. Point is, grades are important, however they will neither make nor break you when it comes to job time. Good interview skills can completely compensate for a few bad grades, however good grades will NEVER compensate for poor interview/social skills. My advice would be to do the best you can and understand that no grades mathematically eliminate you, even in this market.

Aaaaand the siren leads us onwards.

[$$$$$$]

median kids can still get great offers. I know a few at my t10 that were median and ended up at v20 firms. Grades arent everything. also, do not rely soley on OCI, mail firms that are not coming to oci early in the summer and try to set up interviews, hustle, be personable and come across as intelligent and you can always nail something. remember, you just need one hiring partner to think you are worth a shot.

[Anonymous User]

You are overreacting. This would be like someone asking what law schools they could get into based on one section of the LSAT. We need the total score to give a meaningful answer.

Actually this is rather like all those threads where people ask based on practice LSAT scores. The only appropriate answer here is "find out what your GPA is and come back and we'll tell you."

Yeah dude just chill out a bit. I was freaking out just like you at this time last year (B-'s for my first two grades), and figured life was essentially over. Needless to say, I ended up doing fine in my other classes, and despite having a 3.21 (below median at my school) at the end of 1L year, ended up landing a job at a V15 firm. Point is, grades are important, however they will neither make nor break you when it comes to job time. Good interview skills can completely compensate for a few bad grades, however good grades will NEVER compensate for poor interview/social skills. My advice would be to do the best you can and understand that no grades mathematically eliminate you, even in this market.

What school do you attend?

UVA

[Veyron]

median kids can still get great offers. I know a few at my t10 that were median and ended up at v20 firms. Grades arent everything. also, do not rely soley on OCI, mail firms that are not coming to oci early in the summer and try to set up interviews, hustle, be personable and come across as intelligent and you can always nail something. remember, you just need one hiring partner to think you are worth a shot.

Aren't median and slightly below median (i.e. not bottom 1/3) kids evaluated very differently?

[BruceWayne]

You are overreacting. This would be like someone asking what law schools they could get into based on one section of the LSAT. We need the total score to give a meaningful answer.

Actually this is rather like all those threads where people ask based on practice LSAT scores. The only appropriate answer here is "find out what your GPA is and come back and we'll tell you."

Yeah dude just chill out a bit. I was freaking out just like you at this time last year (B-'s for my first two grades), and figured life was essentially over. Needless to say, I ended up doing fine in my other classes, and despite having a 3.21 (below median at my school) at the end of 1L year, ended up landing a job at a V15 firm. Point is, grades are important, however they will neither make nor break you when it comes to job time. Good interview skills can completely compensate for a few bad grades, however good grades will NEVER compensate for poor interview/social skills. My advice would be to do the best you can and understand that no grades mathematically eliminate you, even in this market.

What school do you attend?

UVA

edit. Made a mistake about who the poster was.

[rdt854]

median kids can still get great offers. I know a few at my t10 that were median and ended up at v20 firms. Grades arent everything. also, do not rely soley on OCI, mail firms that are not coming to oci early in the summer and try to set up interviews, hustle, be personable and come across as intelligent and you can always nail something. remember, you just need one hiring partner to think you are worth a shot.

Aren't median and slightly below median (i.e. not bottom 1/3) kids evaluated very differently?

I really think most firms are looking for a baseline level of intelligence when evaluating a candidate. To establish that, they look at a few things; grades, your resume, how you answer interview questions (substantively and otherwise), and your writing sample. It seemed to me that when evaluating my transcript, most firms saw I had a few A's (despite a few other horrible grades), realized I at least had the ability to do great work, and moved on to evaluating other indicators of intelligence. So in a sense, having poor grades might make the other aspects of the interview process more important to establishing your intelligence, however I don't think it determines how they ultimately evaluate you as a candidate. Remember, firms don't have to 'report' our grades to US news like law schools do for our lsats/undergrad gpa's, so they really don't give a crap if you have bad grades; if you give them enough reasons to hire you, they will hire you. And I actually am in the bottom 3rd (at the top of it though), and got 7 offers... so while it might look bad on its face, you can easily overcome the stigma of below average grades with other redeeming qualities.

[Veyron]

median kids can still get great offers. I know a few at my t10 that were median and ended up at v20 firms. Grades arent everything. also, do not rely soley on OCI, mail firms that are not coming to oci early in the summer and try to set up interviews, hustle, be personable and come across as intelligent and you can always nail something. remember, you just need one hiring partner to think you are worth a shot.

Aren't median and slightly below median (i.e. not bottom 1/3) kids evaluated very differently?

I really think most firms are looking for a baseline level of intelligence when evaluating a candidate. To establish that, they look at a few things; grades, your resume, how you answer interview questions (substantively and otherwise), and your writing sample. It seemed to me that when evaluating my transcript, most firms saw I had a few A's (despite a few other horrible grades), realized I at least had the ability to do great work, and moved on to evaluating other indicators of intelligence. So in a sense, having poor grades might make the other aspects of the interview process more important to establishing your intelligence, however I don't think it determines how they ultimately evaluate you as a candidate. Remember, firms don't have to 'report' our grades to US news like law schools do for our lsats/undergrad gpa's, so they really don't give a crap if you have bad grades; if you give them enough reasons to hire you, they will hire you.

A- = A? I think I have one of those coming.

[rdt854]

median kids can still get great offers. I know a few at my t10 that were median and ended up at v20 firms. Grades arent everything. also, do not rely soley on OCI, mail firms that are not coming to oci early in the summer and try to set up interviews, hustle, be personable and come across as intelligent and you can always nail something. remember, you just need one hiring partner to think you are worth a shot.

Aren't median and slightly below median (i.e. not bottom 1/3) kids evaluated very differently?

I really think most firms are looking for a baseline level of intelligence when evaluating a candidate. To establish that, they look at a few things; grades, your resume, how you answer interview questions (substantively and otherwise), and your writing sample. It seemed to me that when evaluating my transcript, most firms saw I had a few A's (despite a few other horrible grades), realized I at least had the ability to do great work, and moved on to evaluating other indicators of intelligence. So in a sense, having poor grades might make the other aspects of the interview process more important to establishing your intelligence, however I don't think it determines how they ultimately evaluate you as a candidate. Remember, firms don't have to 'report' our grades to US news like law schools do for our lsats/undergrad gpa's, so they really don't give a crap if you have bad grades; if you give them enough reasons to hire you, they will hire you.

A- = A? I think I have one of those coming.

Yeah I'm sure it serves the same purpose. Personally, I think a transcript with a few A's and a few B's/B-'s looks better to firms then a transcript with all B+'s (that have the same GPA)... Although I could be biased

[$$$$$$]

median kids can still get great offers. I know a few at my t10 that were median and ended up at v20 firms. Grades arent everything. also, do not rely soley on OCI, mail firms that are not coming to oci early in the summer and try to set up interviews, hustle, be personable and come across as intelligent and you can always nail something. remember, you just need one hiring partner to think you are worth a shot.

Aren't median and slightly below median (i.e. not bottom 1/3) kids evaluated very differently?

no one is evaluated differently, you have the same type of interviews, CB, etc. Is a 3.2 and a 3.3 really that different? 3.2 is probably around bottom third, and 3.3 is 50th percentile. But the difference is probably one B instead of a B+. Like the poster above said, firms dont have to report anything and so they are more willing to let certain things go. If you have a solid undergrad, work experience, good interview skills, etc, a below median grade wont keep you out of firms coming from a T-10 school.

Again, im just a 1L, but im a big believer in this, and ive seen it in many fields that do hiring similarly to law (banking, trading - friends have had 2.8 gpas and gotten analyst jobs at top 5 ibanks. obviously having great grades makes things easier and puts all doubt aside. but if someone likes you that has a lot of power at the firm, it doesnt matter if you have a 3.5 or a 3.2 (unless there are strict cutoffs)

[vanwinkle]

Aren't median and slightly below median (i.e. not bottom 1/3) kids evaluated very differently?

no one is evaluated differently, you have the same type of interviews, CB, etc. Is a 3.2 and a 3.3 really that different? 3.2 is probably around bottom third, and 3.3 is 50th percentile.

This is one of the dumbest things I've read on here in a while. I wonder where it come from.

Again, im just a 1L

Ah, that explains it.

[BruceWayne]

^ In his defense Rd and the anonymous posters are basically saying the same thing. And since you had really high grades will you ever really know if what they're saying isn't true!? Maybe you could purposely bomb the rest of 2L and apply for a clerkship next year so you can find out for us!

[vanwinkle]

^ In his defense Rd and the anonymous posters are basically saying the same thing. And since you had really high grades will you ever really know if what they're saying isn't true!? Maybe you could purposely bomb the rest of 2L and apply for a clerkship next year so you can find out for us!

There's a huge difference between saying "don't give up, you can still overcome below median grades" and saying "no one is evaluated differently, and bottom third and median are really the same thing".