TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

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TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:19 pm

hey guys. ive gotten some offers for 1L SAs in TX. ButTX tends to split summers, even for 1L SAs. If I end up only doing one firm job (say 6 weeks ish) during 1L SA, and nothing else for the remainder 6 weeks, would it look bad for 2L OCI? Would TX firms question that semi-gap on the resume?

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JazzOne
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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby JazzOne » Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:hey guys. ive gotten some offers for 1L SAs in TX. ButTX tends to split summers, even for 1L SAs. If I end up only doing one firm job (say 6 weeks ish) during 1L SA, and nothing else for the remainder 6 weeks, would it look bad for 2L OCI? Would TX firms question that semi-gap on the resume?

Very few people get any 1L SA at all, so it won't look bad. Working half the summer will help you get a 2L job.

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:26 pm

Do you have any idea which six weeks they're looking for in TX markets? Like, what exactly is "first half" and what is "second half", or do you get to choose?

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby JazzOne » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do you have any idea which six weeks they're looking for in TX markets? Like, what exactly is "first half" and what is "second half", or do you get to choose?

Most big firms in Texas host SAs during the first half. A small number of firms have second-half programs. In general, you won't be able to choose which half you work. Some firms are flexible, but the most prestigious firms are not. I would suggest contacting the recruiter and asking these questions. If you really hit it off with one of the attorneys, you could contact him/her as well. I know a guy who tried to negotiate with the recruiting director, and she was completely inflexible, but my friend managed to convince the hiring partner to make an exception for him.

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:14 pm

JazzOne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Do you have any idea which six weeks they're looking for in TX markets? Like, what exactly is "first half" and what is "second half", or do you get to choose?

Most big firms in Texas host SAs during the first half. A small number of firms have second-half programs. In general, you won't be able to choose which half you work. Some firms are flexible, but the most prestigious firms are not. I would suggest contacting the recruiter and asking these questions. If you really hit it off with one of the attorneys, you could contact him/her as well. I know a guy who tried to negotiate with the recruiting director, and she was completely inflexible, but my friend managed to convince the hiring partner to make an exception for him.


for it, it seems first half heavy at a lot of firms, but the ones ive dealt with are slightly flexible in that they require 6 weeks out of a 10 week range or the like (first 10 weeks)

other firms, like Locke Lord for example, require 6 weeks between mid-May to early August for their Houston, NYC, etc. offices (according to their website)

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:14 pm

JazzOne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:hey guys. ive gotten some offers for 1L SAs in TX. ButTX tends to split summers, even for 1L SAs. If I end up only doing one firm job (say 6 weeks ish) during 1L SA, and nothing else for the remainder 6 weeks, would it look bad for 2L OCI? Would TX firms question that semi-gap on the resume?

Very few people get any 1L SA at all, so it won't look bad. Working half the summer will help you get a 2L job.


OP here: so if I just have one SA job for 6 weeks, that wouldnt look bad on my resume? also, should i be doing something else during the second half, like public interest or non-profit work? feels weird having 6 weeks of 1L summer free haha

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby JazzOne » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:hey guys. ive gotten some offers for 1L SAs in TX. ButTX tends to split summers, even for 1L SAs. If I end up only doing one firm job (say 6 weeks ish) during 1L SA, and nothing else for the remainder 6 weeks, would it look bad for 2L OCI? Would TX firms question that semi-gap on the resume?

Very few people get any 1L SA at all, so it won't look bad. Working half the summer will help you get a 2L job.


OP here: so if I just have one SA job for 6 weeks, that wouldnt look bad on my resume? also, should i be doing something else during the second half, like public interest or non-profit work? feels weird having 6 weeks of 1L summer free haha

No, that will not look bad on resume. As for the other half of your summer, it's really up to you. I recommend that you take a summer school class. But doing some PI work or a judicial internship would look great on your resume, so those are reasonable options. Or just relax and enjoy your summer.

Oh, and here's another piece of advice. Don't believe what they tell you regarding the SA. They will tell you it's not competitive and that most SAs get an offer to return the following summer. Don't buy any of it. It is a competition. You are expected to work as many hours as your mentor, and you need to watch what your wear, what you say, and how you act every day. It's a six-week job interview. It's not summer break.

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:hey guys. ive gotten some offers for 1L SAs in TX. ButTX tends to split summers, even for 1L SAs. If I end up only doing one firm job (say 6 weeks ish) during 1L SA, and nothing else for the remainder 6 weeks, would it look bad for 2L OCI? Would TX firms question that semi-gap on the resume?

Very few people get any 1L SA at all, so it won't look bad. Working half the summer will help you get a 2L job.


OP here: so if I just have one SA job for 6 weeks, that wouldnt look bad on my resume? also, should i be doing something else during the second half, like public interest or non-profit work? feels weird having 6 weeks of 1L summer free haha

Yes, you should be doing something those other six weeks. But it can be literally anything law-related, a PI internship, a summer RA gig, anything. Anything will look better than a half-summer gap.

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:32 pm

JazzOne wrote:No, that will not look bad on resume. As for the other half of your summer, it's really up to you. I recommend that you take a summer school class. But doing some PI work or a judicial internship would look great on your resume, so those are reasonable options. Or just relax and enjoy your summer.

Oh, and here's another piece of advice. Don't believe what they tell you regarding the SA. They will tell you it's not competitive and that most SAs get an offer to return the following summer. Don't buy any of it. It is a competition. You are expected to work as many hours as your mentor, and you need to watch what your wear, what you say, and how you act every day. It's a six-week job interview. It's not summer break.


thanks for the help and advice. ill keep that in mind. but when their offer sheet says they expect a 2 yr commitment (assuming they give you the offer), how bound are you to that? not that im planning on reneging on it if it is a contractual obligation, just curious so i know how/which firms to accept or interview with during 1L SA, especially if my choices may ultimately lock me into the same firms during my 2L SA (not that im complaining about being locked into 2L summer jobs before 2L year even started! lol)

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby LawSchoolWannaBe » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
JazzOne wrote:No, that will not look bad on resume. As for the other half of your summer, it's really up to you. I recommend that you take a summer school class. But doing some PI work or a judicial internship would look great on your resume, so those are reasonable options. Or just relax and enjoy your summer.

Oh, and here's another piece of advice. Don't believe what they tell you regarding the SA. They will tell you it's not competitive and that most SAs get an offer to return the following summer. Don't buy any of it. It is a competition. You are expected to work as many hours as your mentor, and you need to watch what your wear, what you say, and how you act every day. It's a six-week job interview. It's not summer break.


thanks for the help and advice. ill keep that in mind. but when their offer sheet says they expect a 2 yr commitment (assuming they give you the offer), how bound are you to that? not that im planning on reneging on it if it is a contractual obligation, just curious so i know how/which firms to accept or interview with during 1L SA, especially if my choices may ultimately lock me into the same firms during my 2L SA (not that im complaining about being locked into 2L summer jobs before 2L year even started! lol)


They can't force you to come back the second summer (heck, they don't have to invite you back either), but if you get asked back, and you plan to work in the same area anyways...that might not look so great. However, say you work in Dallas this summer, but end up deciding you want to be in NYC, I don't think that'd be as big of a deal.

As for the "work as many hours as your mentor" thing: I'm not sure where Jazz got that from, but from my experience with Texas firms, that's not true.

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby JazzOne » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:59 pm

LawSchoolWannaBe wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
JazzOne wrote:No, that will not look bad on resume. As for the other half of your summer, it's really up to you. I recommend that you take a summer school class. But doing some PI work or a judicial internship would look great on your resume, so those are reasonable options. Or just relax and enjoy your summer.

Oh, and here's another piece of advice. Don't believe what they tell you regarding the SA. They will tell you it's not competitive and that most SAs get an offer to return the following summer. Don't buy any of it. It is a competition. You are expected to work as many hours as your mentor, and you need to watch what your wear, what you say, and how you act every day. It's a six-week job interview. It's not summer break.


thanks for the help and advice. ill keep that in mind. but when their offer sheet says they expect a 2 yr commitment (assuming they give you the offer), how bound are you to that? not that im planning on reneging on it if it is a contractual obligation, just curious so i know how/which firms to accept or interview with during 1L SA, especially if my choices may ultimately lock me into the same firms during my 2L SA (not that im complaining about being locked into 2L summer jobs before 2L year even started! lol)


They can't force you to come back the second summer (heck, they don't have to invite you back either), but if you get asked back, and you plan to work in the same area anyways...that might not look so great. However, say you work in Dallas this summer, but end up deciding you want to be in NYC, I don't think that'd be as big of a deal.

As for the "work as many hours as your mentor" thing: I'm not sure where Jazz got that from, but from my experience with Texas firms, that's not true.

I don't think it's a universal rule, but one of my classmates told me that his rule of thumb was not to leave the office before his mentor. This is also the same guy I mentioned above who convinced the hiring partner at a V20 to give him special accommodations for the summer. He actually has three SAs lined up this summer, including the aforementioned V20 and one of the Big 3 in Texas. He left two weeks open at the end of the summer, and another biglaw firm wanted to interview him to work just those two weeks. After observing the amount of success this guy has had in law school and the hiring market, I've learned to take his advice seriously.

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:13 pm

JazzOne wrote:I don't think it's a universal rule, but one of my classmates told me that his rule of thumb was not to leave the office before his mentor. This is also the same guy I mentioned above who convinced the hiring partner at a V20 to give him special accommodations for the summer. He actually has three SAs lined up this summer, including the aforementioned V20 and one of the Big 3 in Texas. He left two weeks open at the end of the summer, and another biglaw firm wanted to interview him to work just those two weeks. After observing the amount of success this guy has had in law school and the hiring market, I've learned to take his advice seriously.


random n00b question: i see TX big 3 mentioned a lot...thats BB, VE, and FJ? right? in any specific order? lol just curious

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby LawSchoolWannaBe » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:17 pm

JazzOne wrote:
LawSchoolWannaBe wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
JazzOne wrote:No, that will not look bad on resume. As for the other half of your summer, it's really up to you. I recommend that you take a summer school class. But doing some PI work or a judicial internship would look great on your resume, so those are reasonable options. Or just relax and enjoy your summer.

Oh, and here's another piece of advice. Don't believe what they tell you regarding the SA. They will tell you it's not competitive and that most SAs get an offer to return the following summer. Don't buy any of it. It is a competition. You are expected to work as many hours as your mentor, and you need to watch what your wear, what you say, and how you act every day. It's a six-week job interview. It's not summer break.


thanks for the help and advice. ill keep that in mind. but when their offer sheet says they expect a 2 yr commitment (assuming they give you the offer), how bound are you to that? not that im planning on reneging on it if it is a contractual obligation, just curious so i know how/which firms to accept or interview with during 1L SA, especially if my choices may ultimately lock me into the same firms during my 2L SA (not that im complaining about being locked into 2L summer jobs before 2L year even started! lol)


They can't force you to come back the second summer (heck, they don't have to invite you back either), but if you get asked back, and you plan to work in the same area anyways...that might not look so great. However, say you work in Dallas this summer, but end up deciding you want to be in NYC, I don't think that'd be as big of a deal.

As for the "work as many hours as your mentor" thing: I'm not sure where Jazz got that from, but from my experience with Texas firms, that's not true.

I don't think it's a universal rule, but one of my classmates told me that his rule of thumb was not to leave the office before his mentor. This is also the same guy I mentioned above who convinced the hiring partner at a V20 to give him special accommodations for the summer. He actually has three SAs lined up this summer, including the aforementioned V20 and one of the Big 3 in Texas. He left two weeks open at the end of the summer, and another biglaw firm wanted to interview him to work just those two weeks. After observing the amount of success this guy has had in law school and the hiring market, I've learned to take his advice seriously.


I'd guess being at the office from 8:30-6 is completely adequate (I did this and did fine with all of my firms 1L and 2L summers). Plus, your mentor may be working from home at night and on weekends. I can't imagine many places want their summers doing that (at least not in TX).

It's probably best to talk to your mentor(s). Or find a first year in the office and see what they have to say.

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby LawSchoolWannaBe » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:19 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
JazzOne wrote:I don't think it's a universal rule, but one of my classmates told me that his rule of thumb was not to leave the office before his mentor. This is also the same guy I mentioned above who convinced the hiring partner at a V20 to give him special accommodations for the summer. He actually has three SAs lined up this summer, including the aforementioned V20 and one of the Big 3 in Texas. He left two weeks open at the end of the summer, and another biglaw firm wanted to interview him to work just those two weeks. After observing the amount of success this guy has had in law school and the hiring market, I've learned to take his advice seriously.


random n00b question: i see TX big 3 mentioned a lot...thats BB, VE, and FJ? right? in any specific order? lol just curious


No order. If there was one, it would probably be VE/BB and then FJ.

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby littlebit » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:32 pm

.
Last edited by littlebit on Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:32 pm

LawSchoolWannaBe wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
JazzOne wrote:I don't think it's a universal rule, but one of my classmates told me that his rule of thumb was not to leave the office before his mentor. This is also the same guy I mentioned above who convinced the hiring partner at a V20 to give him special accommodations for the summer. He actually has three SAs lined up this summer, including the aforementioned V20 and one of the Big 3 in Texas. He left two weeks open at the end of the summer, and another biglaw firm wanted to interview him to work just those two weeks. After observing the amount of success this guy has had in law school and the hiring market, I've learned to take his advice seriously.


random n00b question: i see TX big 3 mentioned a lot...thats BB, VE, and FJ? right? in any specific order? lol just curious


No order. If there was one, it would probably be VE/BB and then FJ.


i recently read some articles on financial probs for BB in particular (i dont keep up much w/ FJ) and VE's litigation dept due to the recession; anyone see any glaring issues with either of them stability-wise? i guess economy is picking up again (yay!)

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby JazzOne » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:34 pm

littlebit wrote:.

Why the edit? -1 now?

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby littlebit » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:35 pm

JazzOne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:hey guys. ive gotten some offers for 1L SAs in TX. ButTX tends to split summers, even for 1L SAs. If I end up only doing one firm job (say 6 weeks ish) during 1L SA, and nothing else for the remainder 6 weeks, would it look bad for 2L OCI? Would TX firms question that semi-gap on the resume?

Very few people get any 1L SA at all, so it won't look bad. Working half the summer will help you get a 2L job.


OP here: so if I just have one SA job for 6 weeks, that wouldnt look bad on my resume? also, should i be doing something else during the second half, like public interest or non-profit work? feels weird having 6 weeks of 1L summer free haha

No, that will not look bad on resume. As for the other half of your summer, it's really up to you. I recommend that you take a summer school class. But doing some PI work or a judicial internship would look great on your resume, so those are reasonable options. Or just relax and enjoy your summer.

Oh, and here's another piece of advice. Don't believe what they tell you regarding the SA. They will tell you it's not competitive and that most SAs get an offer to return the following summer. Don't buy any of it. It is a competition. You are expected to work as many hours as your mentor, and you need to watch what your wear, what you say, and how you act every day. It's a six-week job interview. It's not summer break.


+1 on Jazzone's comment

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby littlebit » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:05 pm

JazzOne wrote:
littlebit wrote:.

Why the edit? -1 now?


No, I agree strongly with your post, just screwed up the quote.

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby JazzOne » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:14 pm

littlebit wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
littlebit wrote:.

Why the edit? -1 now?


No, I agree strongly with your post, just screwed up the quote.

I wish I could figure out who you are. I have a theory, but I'm probably wrong.

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
LawSchoolWannaBe wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
JazzOne wrote:I don't think it's a universal rule, but one of my classmates told me that his rule of thumb was not to leave the office before his mentor. This is also the same guy I mentioned above who convinced the hiring partner at a V20 to give him special accommodations for the summer. He actually has three SAs lined up this summer, including the aforementioned V20 and one of the Big 3 in Texas. He left two weeks open at the end of the summer, and another biglaw firm wanted to interview him to work just those two weeks. After observing the amount of success this guy has had in law school and the hiring market, I've learned to take his advice seriously.


random n00b question: i see TX big 3 mentioned a lot...thats BB, VE, and FJ? right? in any specific order? lol just curious


No order. If there was one, it would probably be VE/BB and then FJ.


i recently read some articles on financial probs for BB in particular (i dont keep up much w/ FJ) and VE's litigation dept due to the recession; anyone see any glaring issues with either of them stability-wise? i guess economy is picking up again (yay!)


When I interviewed down there this summer, BB in Houston seemed really depressed to me. The lower-level associates all seemed to be looking over their shoulder, and they were complaining about not enough work going around. However, they have since been doing better, supposedly, and their Dallas office is better than Houston by far. VE, from what I hear, is going like gangbusters (transactional in particular, especially since landing the Southwest/AirTran merger, but I believe lit is doing fine too). I have friends at FJ in TX who said last year was terrifying for them, b/c the offices down there weren't doing well (I was told to stay away). In any case, the TX firms (mainly in Houston and Dallas) haven't been as badly hurt as other places, from what I understand.

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:01 pm

I'm not sold on VE right now being all that better than BB. I've heard rumblings of people who were set to start after clerkships being told to wait a few more months.

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm not sold on VE right now being all that better than BB. I've heard rumblings of people who were set to start after clerkships being told to wait a few more months.


lit or transactional though? ive heard VE's transactional has been doing pretty well lately, but their lit took a hit

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm not sold on VE right now being all that better than BB. I've heard rumblings of people who were set to start after clerkships being told to wait a few more months.


lit or transactional though? ive heard VE's transactional has been doing pretty well lately, but their lit took a hit


Lit.

Still, deferring people last minute w/o compensation isn't the sign of a firm that's doing incredible.

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Re: TX Split Summers - Only One Okay for 1L?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm not sold on VE right now being all that better than BB. I've heard rumblings of people who were set to start after clerkships being told to wait a few more months.


lit or transactional though? ive heard VE's transactional has been doing pretty well lately, but their lit took a hit


Lit.

Still, deferring people last minute w/o compensation isn't the sign of a firm that's doing incredible.


true, but seeing as their lit dept may have taken a hit, it is still all relative (relative to the other firms in Houston i mean)...they clearly arent in some pre-recession mode, but VE overall may be better off financially than BB. i dont know, but thats some of the rumblings i hear.




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