Beard okay for 1L interview?

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A&O
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby A&O » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:07 pm

but can possibly hurt you, you don't do it, even if the risk is low.


I don't know. It just didn't seem like a big deal during the summer. I knew other summer associates and associates who had beards too. No one cared.

If it's not well kept, it should go. But if you can rock the beard, rock it.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Also, why so anon?


Because I'd prefer not to be outed based on my physical characteristics?

h at it can hurt the op and there is no reason to chance it


Anything can hurt the OP. So basically, if he doesn't want to take a chance, he should do nothing at all. Ever. Never.

Right.

Lol, that doesn't out you, at least stand behind what you are saying. And that is one of the most illogical arguments I have ever seen on this board. Really, you thought that was a good argument? Trying to maximize your chances at a job is what we are all trying to do, you aren't going to wear a wrinkled shirt or three piece suit either even though they may not hurt you, but they could.

A&O
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby A&O » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:09 pm

Just because you worked for a firm, with a beard, does not make it normal. Your above post is TERRIBLE advice.

TCR is don't do things to set yourself apart in a way that could be perceived as disrespectful. AKA get a haircut and shave. If you want to make waves or fight the man do it outside of work.


What? I have plenty of friends with beards. They all did fine.

I agree with "not setting yourself apart in a way that could be perceived as disrespectful." But a beard, in my opinion, just isn't one of those things that does it.

A&O
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby A&O » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:10 pm

And that is one of the most illogical arguments I have ever seen on this board. Really, you thought that was a good argument? Trying to maximize your chances at a job is what we are all trying to do, you aren't going to wear a wrinkled shirt or three piece suit either even though they may not hurt you, but they could.


I wasn't trying to generalize. When you work at a place, you get a feel for what's appropriate and what isn't. Where I worked, the beard didn't seem like a big deal. Where my friends who had beards worked, it didn't seem like a big deal.

And having a beard is not nearly as egregious as a wrinkled shirt or a three-piece suit, so don't act like it is.

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romothesavior
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:11 pm

Maybe things are different in my market, but every biglaw associate or partner I've ever talked to looked like they literally shaved 5 seconds before. Clean as a baby's bottom. The exception is the 45+ year old partners I've met with mustaches. Maybe things are different where you are, I dunno.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby megaTTTron » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Just because you worked for a firm, with a beard, does not make it normal. Your above post is TERRIBLE advice.

TCR is don't do things to set yourself apart in a way that could be perceived as disrespectful. AKA get a haircut and shave. If you want to make waves or fight the man do it outside of work.


What? I have plenty of friends with beards. They all did fine.

I agree with "not setting yourself apart in a way that could be perceived as disrespectful." But a beard, in my opinion, just isn't one of those things that does it.


I wish it were so. lol. I really really do. I look like an idiot w/o a beard, but it's just not smart for an interviewee to walk the line. Maybe I should wear my gingham shirt and a knit tie to show my fashion sense. No. It's just not smart. If you have a beard, and get and offer you're a straight G, but I think it's stupid to put everything on the line to wear a beard for 3 months.

Anonymous User
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:13 pm

Maybe things are different in my market, but every biglaw associate or partner I've ever talked to looked like they literally shaved 5 seconds before. Clean as a baby's bottom. The exception is the 45+ year old partners I've met with mustaches. Maybe things are different where you are, I dunno.


It's not only possible. It's probable. OP should use his judgment. Some places might operate that way. I worked at the paradigm white-shoe firm in NYC, and it was no big deal. I'm under the impression that if it passes there, it would pass anywhere else, since firms like mine tend to be on the extreme in terms of formalism and etiquette. Then again, I could be wrong.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
And that is one of the most illogical arguments I have ever seen on this board. Really, you thought that was a good argument? Trying to maximize your chances at a job is what we are all trying to do, you aren't going to wear a wrinkled shirt or three piece suit either even though they may not hurt you, but they could.


I wasn't trying to generalize. When you work at a place, you get a feel for what's appropriate and what isn't. Where I worked, the beard didn't seem like a big deal. Where my friends who had beards worked, it didn't seem like a big deal.

And having a beard is not nearly as egregious as a wrinkled shirt or a three-piece suit, so don't act like it is.

The point is, it may be egregious depending on the person making the decisions and there is no reason to take that chance now. Once you are in the job and have a good feel for everyone then you can make that judgement.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby megaTTTron » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Maybe things are different in my market, but every biglaw associate or partner I've ever talked to looked like they literally shaved 5 seconds before. Clean as a baby's bottom. The exception is the 45+ year old partners I've met with mustaches. Maybe things are different where you are, I dunno.


It's not only possible. It's probable. OP should use his judgment. Some places might operate that way. I worked at the paradigm white-shoe firm in NYC, and it was no big deal. I'm under the impression that if it passes there, it would pass anywhere else, since firms like mine tend to be on the extreme in terms of formalism and etiquette. Then again, I could be wrong.


I am so curious to know the firm. I know which it isn't lol. You said v15, so btwn 10 - 15.

A&O
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby A&O » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:16 pm

I look like an idiot w/o a beard, but it's just not smart for an interviewee to walk the line. Maybe I should wear my gingham shirt and a knit tie to show my fashion sense.


These kinds of arguments are stupid. You can't argue that a beard is bad because it's like wearing [put something egregious here]. That's circular reasoning.

In fact, I would say that if you look ugly without a beard, you absolutely should wear the beard. After all, study after study shows that being attractive gives you higher chances at the job. And according to this forum, you should take every chance you can get...

A&O
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby A&O » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:17 pm

The point is, it may be egregious depending on the person making the decisions and there is no reason to take that chance now. Once you are in the job and have a good feel for everyone then you can make that judgement.


You're not even in law school. Get out of this forum.

I am so curious to know the firm. I know which it isn't lol. You said v15, so btwn 10 - 15.


I was actually at a V10. But again, what does it matter? You're hoping that I'm at your firm, [REDACTED], and that I got away with a beard there? Stop being insecure.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby megaTTTron » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
I look like an idiot w/o a beard, but it's just not smart for an interviewee to walk the line. Maybe I should wear my gingham shirt and a knit tie to show my fashion sense.


These kinds of arguments are stupid. You can't argue that a beard is bad because it's like wearing [put something egregious here]. That's circular reasoning.

In fact, I would say that if you look ugly without a beard, you absolutely should wear the beard. After all, study after study shows that being attractive gives you higher chances at the job. And according to this forum, you should take every chance you can get...


This is so absurd. OP - wear a beard and tell us what happens.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby megaTTTron » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
The point is, it may be egregious depending on the person making the decisions and there is no reason to take that chance now. Once you are in the job and have a good feel for everyone then you can make that judgement.


You're not even in law school. Get out of this forum.

I am so curious to know the firm. I know which it isn't lol. You said v15, so btwn 10 - 15.


I was actually at a V10. But again, what does it matter? You're hoping that I'm at your firm and that I got away with a beard there? Stop being insecure.


Really? Getting a little defensive?
Last edited by megaTTTron on Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

A&O
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby A&O » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:20 pm

So you can't provide a non-circular argument, and you can't respond to the reductio, so you just pretend to act like OP is going to get a death sentance with a beard?

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Patriot1208
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
The point is, it may be egregious depending on the person making the decisions and there is no reason to take that chance now. Once you are in the job and have a good feel for everyone then you can make that judgement.


You're not even in law school. Get out of this forum.

I am so curious to know the firm. I know which it isn't lol. You said v15, so btwn 10 - 15.


I was actually at a V10. But again, what does it matter? You're hoping that I'm at your firm and that I got away with a beard there? Stop being insecure.


Why you so bad at making arguments? I worked in a recruiting firm that did finance and I worked with contractors at lexis nexis, I have relevant experience. Any recruiter in these types of industries will tell you it's a stupid risk to take. Your singular anecdotal evidence, straw man, and ad hominem are not good arguments.
Last edited by Patriot1208 on Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby megaTTTron » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So you can't provide a non-circular argument, and you can't respond to the reductio, so you just pretend to act like OP is going to get a death sentance with a beard?


All conventional wisdom says to shave your face so as to not set yourself apart in a negative way. You did something different, and had success and now you think it's okay to come in here an broadcast your results like it's normal? Then when I ask what firm you went to you try to out mine?
Last edited by megaTTTron on Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

A&O
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby A&O » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:27 pm

You did something different, and had success and now you think it's okay to come in here an broadcast your results like it's normal?


No. I gave my experience, and the experience of my friends who worked at a multitude of firms. I also talked about judgment: Being able to understand the norm of your firm. I agreed with romeo-whatever, allowing for the possibility that some firm cultures would be hostile to facial hair.

So take that for what it's worth.

Then when I ask what firm you went to you try to out mine?


Outing your firm was totally unnecessary, right? Kind of like it was unnecessary to ask about my firm in the first place.

But since I conveyed my lesson, I'll go ahead and edit out the firm from my post.

A&O
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby A&O » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:31 pm

Pretty cool example:
http://www.cgsh.com/dfisher/

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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:43 pm

Serious Q:

Anyone work in Manhattan DA's office and notice beard trends there? I have an interview coming up and I need to know whether to shave NOW (to get used to my clean face again) or let the beard stay.

Looks like this, but a touch shorter:
Image

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megaTTTron
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby megaTTTron » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
You did something different, and had success and now you think it's okay to come in here an broadcast your results like it's normal?


No. I gave my experience, and the experience of my friends who worked at a multitude of firms. I also talked about judgment: Being able to understand the norm of your firm. I agreed with romeo-whatever, allowing for the possibility that some firm cultures would be hostile to facial hair.

So take that for what it's worth.

Then when I ask what firm you went to you try to out mine?


Outing your firm was totally unnecessary, right? Kind of like it was unnecessary to ask about my firm in the first place.

But since I conveyed my lesson, I'll go ahead and edit out the firm from my post.


Thank you.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:32 pm

A&O wrote:I was actually at a V10. But again, what does it matter? You're hoping that I'm at your firm, [REDACTED], and that I got away with a beard there? Stop being insecure.

The above (which was highly inappropriate, before you redacted yourself) earned you a ban. Outing identifying information about users (including what firm they work for) is going to get you banned. The only reason it's temporary is that you redacted it yourself before I got to it.

Also, you posted anonymously, it's abuse of the anon feature to post such attacks on other users, so, everything's been outed. Besides, you didn't identify what firm you work for yourself even though you were anonymous, and you only claimed you needed anonymity because the fact that you have/had a beard at one point might identify you, which seems like kind of BS. It's especially BS when your first post in this thread was non-anonymous and said this:

A&O wrote:Facial hair is fine if you, as you say, keep it trimmed and clean.

If you're speaking from personal authority that facial hair is fine, people are going to assume you had some. So you already outed yourself in that respect. I might respect the fact that you said you worked for a V10 at some point, but 1) that's still kind of vague and non-identifying, and 2) you did it while outing someone else, which gives me a lot less sympathy.

Ironically, if you had actually identified the firm you worked for instead of outing another user's firm while posting anon, that 1) would've justified use of the anon feature and 2) wouldn't have involved you doing anything warranting outing or banning. The whole point of having an anon feature is to allow people to disclose things like what firm they work(ed) for and what experiences they had there without linking that information to their TLS identity. Attacking/outing another user for asking something you could have answered anonymously was highly inappropriate.

TL;DR version: If you use the anon feature to post vague ideas about how things work, and you out something about another poster as an attack on them, your posts are probably going to get outed.

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Emma.
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby Emma. » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:49 pm

Just went to a resume and interview workshop with associates and partners from a v25 firm, and someone asked the question about beards. No one suggested that it would be a problem in any way if it were neat and tidy, but I did get the feeling that there probably aren't many junior associates with facial hair. One partner specifically said if it is a big part of who you are then you should just keep the beard, since do you really want to work somewhere that won't hire you because of it?

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gbpackerbacker
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby gbpackerbacker » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:50 pm

As the old saying goes, if you have to ask....

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Bosque
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby Bosque » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:56 pm

Emma. wrote:Just went to a resume and interview workshop with associates and partners from a v25 firm, and someone asked the question about beards. No one suggested that it would be a problem in any way if it were neat and tidy, but I did get the feeling that there probably aren't many junior associates with facial hair. One partner specifically said if it is a big part of who you are then you should just keep the beard, since do you really want to work somewhere that won't hire you because of it?


This.

Also, more anecdotal evidence. I have a beard, and I got a firm job 1L summer and now 2L summer as well. No one at my 1L firm had facial hair, and I don't think I have seen anyone at my 2L firm with facial hair either. You should be ok with the beard.

EDIT: Also, just read through the thread. While I think that the anti beard sentiment is a bit alarming and I don't agree with it, I am not going to unilaterally tell you it is wrong. However, I have been told I look better with a beard, it makes me look like I know what I am doing, and it is well kept. I am keeping it, and if your beard is like mine I think you should too.

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UnTouChablE
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Re: Beard okay for 1L interview?

Postby UnTouChablE » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:31 pm

Just cut it off, re-grow that bitch if/when you get hired like everybody else does. No need to guess, ppl get dinged for anything don't let your thing be facial hair.




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