~3.1 at one of MVP

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~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:17 am

Am I screwed out of biglaw?

Should I just drop out?

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megaTTTron
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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby megaTTTron » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:20 am

What's the curve, or your rank?

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:23 am

megaTTTron wrote:What's the curve, or your rank?


3.3 curve

no idea wtf my rank is.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby megaTTTron » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:
megaTTTron wrote:What's the curve, or your rank?


3.3 curve

no idea wtf my rank is.


Okay, well first off, it doesn't sound that bad. Try to find last years list of ranking for 1Ls, usually posted on the website somewhere. You have another semester to bring shit back up. You don't want to hear it but you should focus on that right now (talking to profs, figuring out how to do better, focusing on rocking second semester)

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Cavalier » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:27 am

I'm guessing Virginia since quite a few 1L grades were released today. If you enter OCI with around a 3.1, you're probably not going to get big law, and if that's what you came to law school for (or if you are depending on big law to pay off your loans), you might think about dropping out. But you should consider (a) your chances of improving your grades next semester, and (b) how strong of a job applicant you will be. If you think you are capable of pulling your GPA closer to the median, and you have other factors in your favor (good work experience, good interviewing skills, etc.), staying in law school may still be wise.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby megaTTTron » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:28 am

Cavalier wrote:I'm guessing Virginia since quite a few 1L grades were released today. If you enter OCI with around a 3.1, you're probably not going to get big law, and if that's what you came to law school for (or if you are depending on big law to pay off your loans), you might think about dropping out. But you should consider (a) your chances of improving your grades next semester, and (b) how strong of a job applicant you will be. If you think you are capable of pulling your GPA closer to the median, and you have other factors in your favor (good work experience, good interviewing skills, etc.), staying in law school may still be wise.


OP, are you on a scholly (getting in-state)?

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:29 am

megaTTTron wrote:
Cavalier wrote:I'm guessing Virginia since quite a few 1L grades were released today. If you enter OCI with around a 3.1, you're probably not going to get big law, and if that's what you came to law school for (or if you are depending on big law to pay off your loans), you might think about dropping out. But you should consider (a) your chances of improving your grades next semester, and (b) how strong of a job applicant you will be. If you think you are capable of pulling your GPA closer to the median, and you have other factors in your favor (good work experience, good interviewing skills, etc.), staying in law school may still be wise.


OP, are you on a scholly (getting in-state)?


everything=full loans. Out of state.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby megaTTTron » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:
megaTTTron wrote:
Cavalier wrote:I'm guessing Virginia since quite a few 1L grades were released today. If you enter OCI with around a 3.1, you're probably not going to get big law, and if that's what you came to law school for (or if you are depending on big law to pay off your loans), you might think about dropping out. But you should consider (a) your chances of improving your grades next semester, and (b) how strong of a job applicant you will be. If you think you are capable of pulling your GPA closer to the median, and you have other factors in your favor (good work experience, good interviewing skills, etc.), staying in law school may still be wise.


OP, are you on a scholly (getting in-state)?


everything=full loans. Out of state.


Cav's credited. But I'd stick it out for this year. You need to (a) talk to all your profs, (b) read some of the guides on here for success, make a plan (this will involve changing your habits), (c) get ahold of past exams for your spring classes and start familiarizing, (d) try to lock up some good experience for this summer.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby bgdddymtty » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:49 am

If you are at UVa, and if grades have only posted for classes for which evals have also posted, then you're getting ahead yourself because you don't have all four of your grades yet. If this is the case, relax and wait until you know what your actual GPA is.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Kohinoor » Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:35 am

Cavalier wrote:I'm guessing Virginia since quite a few 1L grades were released today. If you enter OCI with around a 3.1, you're probably not going to get big law, and if that's what you came to law school for (or if you are depending on big law to pay off your loans), you might think aboutdropping out.But you should consider (a) your chances of improving your grades next semester, and (b) how strong of a job applicant you will be. If you think you are capable of pulling your GPA closer to the median, and you have other factors in your favor (good work experience, good interviewing skills, etc.), staying in law school may still be wise.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:32 pm

Not trying to be a dick, but I am indeed becoming a bit wary of the flooding of posts from 1Ls who are .1 or .2 below median at a T14 hence contemplating dropping out after ONLY ONE TERM at law school.

@ OP and others who are similarly situated:

1) Law school should be an integral part of a coherent career plan instead of a 50/50 gamble to win six figures. If your mentality and financial situation put you in the "biglaw or bust" category, you probably should not be here in the first place.

2) One of my profs at my MVP said something which I largely agree (retrospectively): the first term is when you have the least degree of control to your grades because everyone takes classes on exactly the same curve, and no one has an idea on how to "read the law". Second term is somewhat different because: a) you are getting better at your method of studying; b) there are people (though not many) who will get lazy and fall backwards, and c) your are able to choose at least one elective class with an easier curve (not sure whether it's universal, but true for most of the schools).

3) I am saying all of these as someone who bombed a B- in my first 1L exam but managed to pull out marginally at top 1/3 and got biglaw from MVP. Good grade in a top law school is never a sure thing except for the few extremely smart + hardworking ones. However, if you enter your second semester with the "I should have dropped out" mindset, there will be guaranteed failure.

Good luck.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:37 pm

3.1 isn't the end of the world. I had a 3.0 my first semester at a MVP. I got a 3.6 second semester. Got a big firm job.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:05 pm

Cavalier wrote:I'm guessing Virginia since quite a few 1L grades were released today. If you enter OCI with around a 3.1, you're probably not going to get big law, and if that's what you came to law school for (or if you are depending on big law to pay off your loans), you might think about dropping out. But you should consider (a) your chances of improving your grades next semester, and (b) how strong of a job applicant you will be. If you think you are capable of pulling your GPA closer to the median, and you have other factors in your favor (good work experience, good interviewing skills, etc.), staying in law school may still be wise.


Don't listen to that stuff dude. I'm a non-URM with a 3.20 (3.0 first semester) and am working at a V15 firm. You would be amazed at what good interview skills can do- keep studying and don't let anyone tell you that below median grades eliminate you.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Anonymous Loser » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:18 pm

3L here. Many of my classmates have made dramatic improvements in their GPA's since fall semester of 1L year. Unfortunately, no on cares. All of the critical hiring decisions relevant to large law firms are made almost exclusively on the basis of 1L grades. This means that the OP has a very limited opportunity to raise his GPA: even straight A's spring semester will likely not shift his GPA much above median. The OP may well graduate with latin honors after padding his GPA with 2L and 3L seminars, but by that point many employment opportunities will be foreclosed. Moreover, after doing so poorly fall semester, there is little reason to believe that the OP will surpass his classmates, the majority of whom are much better at law school than he is.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Veyron » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:22 pm

Anonymous Loser wrote:3L here. Many of my classmates have made dramatic improvements in their GPA's since fall semester of 1L year. Unfortunately, no on cares. All of the critical hiring decisions relevant to large law firms are made almost exclusively on the basis of 1L grades. This means that the OP has a very limited opportunity to raise his GPA: even straight A's spring semester will likely not shift his GPA much above median. The OP may well graduate with latin honors after padding his GPA with 2L and 3L seminars, but by that point many employment opportunities will be foreclosed. Moreover, after doing so poorly fall semester, there is little reason to believe that the OP will surpass his classmates, the majority of whom are much better at law school than he is.


Meh, he doesn't need to shift above median. Near median and killer interview skills and a good bid strategy can still win the day at MVP [the bottom 1/3 is going to be permafucked no matter what tho] (now, on my part, I just HOAP and PRAY that I'm not so far below median that even a recovery to around median is out of the cards).

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:39 pm

Veyron wrote:
Anonymous Loser wrote:3L here. Many of my classmates have made dramatic improvements in their GPA's since fall semester of 1L year. Unfortunately, no on cares. All of the critical hiring decisions relevant to large law firms are made almost exclusively on the basis of 1L grades. This means that the OP has a very limited opportunity to raise his GPA: even straight A's spring semester will likely not shift his GPA much above median. The OP may well graduate with latin honors after padding his GPA with 2L and 3L seminars, but by that point many employment opportunities will be foreclosed. Moreover, after doing so poorly fall semester, there is little reason to believe that the OP will surpass his classmates, the majority of whom are much better at law school than he is.


Meh, he doesn't need to shift above median. Near median and killer interview skills and a good bid strategy can still win the day at MVP [the bottom 1/3 is going to be permafucked no matter what tho] (now, on my part, I just HOAP and PRAY that I'm not so far below median that even a recovery to around median is out of the cards).


"Killer interview skills" are a rarity. That's why grades and school are such an important part of the equation for most people.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Cavalier » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Cavalier wrote:I'm guessing Virginia since quite a few 1L grades were released today. If you enter OCI with around a 3.1, you're probably not going to get big law, and if that's what you came to law school for (or if you are depending on big law to pay off your loans), you might think about dropping out. But you should consider (a) your chances of improving your grades next semester, and (b) how strong of a job applicant you will be. If you think you are capable of pulling your GPA closer to the median, and you have other factors in your favor (good work experience, good interviewing skills, etc.), staying in law school may still be wise.

Don't listen to that stuff dude. I'm a non-URM with a 3.20 (3.0 first semester) and am working at a V15 firm. You would be amazed at what good interview skills can do- keep studying and don't let anyone tell you that below median grades eliminate you.

You may have done fine, but most people in your shoes didn't.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:47 pm

Cavalier wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Cavalier wrote:I'm guessing Virginia since quite a few 1L grades were released today. If you enter OCI with around a 3.1, you're probably not going to get big law, and if that's what you came to law school for (or if you are depending on big law to pay off your loans), you might think about dropping out. But you should consider (a) your chances of improving your grades next semester, and (b) how strong of a job applicant you will be. If you think you are capable of pulling your GPA closer to the median, and you have other factors in your favor (good work experience, good interviewing skills, etc.), staying in law school may still be wise.

Don't listen to that stuff dude. I'm a non-URM with a 3.20 (3.0 first semester) and am working at a V15 firm. You would be amazed at what good interview skills can do- keep studying and don't let anyone tell you that below median grades eliminate you.

You may have done fine, but most people in your shoes didn't.


+1 Again, good interview skills are rare.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Veyron » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:49 pm

Cavalier wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Cavalier wrote:I'm guessing Virginia since quite a few 1L grades were released today. If you enter OCI with around a 3.1, you're probably not going to get big law, and if that's what you came to law school for (or if you are depending on big law to pay off your loans), you might think about dropping out. But you should consider (a) your chances of improving your grades next semester, and (b) how strong of a job applicant you will be. If you think you are capable of pulling your GPA closer to the median, and you have other factors in your favor (good work experience, good interviewing skills, etc.), staying in law school may still be wise.

Don't listen to that stuff dude. I'm a non-URM with a 3.20 (3.0 first semester) and am working at a V15 firm. You would be amazed at what good interview skills can do- keep studying and don't let anyone tell you that below median grades eliminate you.

You may have done fine, but most people in your shoes didn't.


I've also heard-tell of stories of 3.2s at Penn winding up at V ranked firms last year. I also know top 20% at T-14s that have struck out entirely. A great deal comes down to presentation, more then I think most people give credit for. That being said, below median is in for a tough slog.

One thing I'm interested in, how can I objectively assess my interview abilities. I've done mock interview-ish stuff with some biglaw and midlaw partners who are acquaintances of mine and gotten good reviews (didn't solicit feedback, reviews were unprompted). However, these people were pre-disposed to be friendly - I can't imagine them telling me that I suck.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:15 pm

Veyron wrote:
Cavalier wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Cavalier wrote:I'm guessing Virginia since quite a few 1L grades were released today. If you enter OCI with around a 3.1, you're probably not going to get big law, and if that's what you came to law school for (or if you are depending on big law to pay off your loans), you might think about dropping out. But you should consider (a) your chances of improving your grades next semester, and (b) how strong of a job applicant you will be. If you think you are capable of pulling your GPA closer to the median, and you have other factors in your favor (good work experience, good interviewing skills, etc.), staying in law school may still be wise.

Don't listen to that stuff dude. I'm a non-URM with a 3.20 (3.0 first semester) and am working at a V15 firm. You would be amazed at what good interview skills can do- keep studying and don't let anyone tell you that below median grades eliminate you.

You may have done fine, but most people in your shoes didn't.


I've also heard-tell of stories of 3.2s at Penn winding up at V ranked firms last year. I also know top 20% at T-14s that have struck out entirely. A great deal comes down to presentation, more then I think most people give credit for. That being said, below median is in for a tough slog.

One thing I'm interested in, how can I objectively assess my interview abilities. I've done mock interview-ish stuff with some biglaw and midlaw partners who are acquaintances of mine and gotten good reviews (didn't solicit feedback, reviews were unprompted). However, these people were pre-disposed to be friendly - I can't imagine them telling me that I suck.


The proof is in the results. When you have 10 interviews and walk away with 9 offers, you'll know you're a good interviewer.

IMO, mock interviews only fix glaring turnoffs you might have. Most people are simply average interviewers, so they'll leave mock interviews not really knowing where they stand. The really good interviewers will leave mock interviews with an actual interview scheduled for a later date with the firm.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Veyron » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:33 pm


I've also heard-tell of stories of 3.2s at Penn winding up at V ranked firms last year. I also know top 20% at T-14s that have struck out entirely. A great deal comes down to presentation, more then I think most people give credit for. That being said, below median is in for a tough slog.

One thing I'm interested in, how can I objectively assess my interview abilities. I've done mock interview-ish stuff with some biglaw and midlaw partners who are acquaintances of mine and gotten good reviews (didn't solicit feedback, reviews were unprompted). However, these people were pre-disposed to be friendly - I can't imagine them telling me that I suck.


The proof is in the results. When you have 10 interviews and walk away with 9 offers, you'll know you're a good interviewer.

IMO, mock interviews only fix glaring turnoffs you might have. Most people are simply average interviewers, so they'll leave mock interviews not really knowing where they stand. The really good interviewers will leave mock interviews with an actual interview scheduled for a later date with the firm.


This happens? If so, is it really the only way to evaluate interview skills.

I mean, I think I have a fair shot at getting an interview at some of these firms (assuming no grade epic fail) but that is more because conversations over the years with these guys have given me a really, really good idea what qualities these firms look for and have allowed me to tailor my resume and experiences accordingly.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:40 pm

Veyron wrote:
This happens? If so, is it really the only way to evaluate interview skills.

I mean, I think I have a fair shot at getting an interview at some of these firms (assuming no grade epic fail) but that is more because conversations over the years with these guys have given me a really, really good idea what qualities these firms look for and have allowed me to tailor my resume and experiences accordingly.



Happened to me...

I don't think that it's the only way to evaluate your skills, but again, as with most things in life, the proof is generally in the results.

If you've had opportunities to talk with partners and associates at large firms about what they're looking for, you'll more than likely be able to turn that into some success.

My whole point with the mock interviews though is that you don't teach someone to be a good interviewer. Either they are or they aren't. You can teach someone to not be a bad interviewer though.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:09 pm

If you really try to figure out what went wrong on your fall exams, you can hopefully raise your GPA by the end of the year. Remember, OCI isn't based on just your fall grades but your entire 1L GPA. Plus, if they ask about the difference in semesters, being able to say "I had a bad first semester but learned and kept trying and did much better the second" is great during an interview.

You should E-mail your professors immediately and ask to schedule a time to review your exams and see what you did wrong and could have done better. Try to pay attention to the way you approached the exam, ask for advice on how to approach one, and try to take away things that will help you prepare for spring finals. Just learning "I missed this one thing in Torts" won't help you in Property, you need to figure out how to do better on law exams in general.

It really depends on how dedicated you are to the idea of improving this spring. If you really want to try and work hard and fight for a chance to make it work, then do it. If your instinct is that this isn't what you really want to do anyway and you don't want to do anything more than you've already done, then dropping out is probably credited.

You've got a lot to think about.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:53 pm

You're going to need to haul ass second semester and get some As/A-s. Fwiw, my grades were all over the ballpark 1L year, and I ended up getting a job through on-campus recruiting. (I got a B- and B 1L year, which were balanced out with As.) Firms pretty much just look at the cumulative GPA. Change your study methods, study more, bring up that GPA. I would wait to see how the second semester goes before deciding whether to drop out or not.

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Re: ~3.1 at one of MVP

Postby sperry » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:16 am

Don't drop out. A 3.1 won't cut it for big law, but it also means you're not hopelessly clueless either. Go talk to your professors and see what went right, what went wrong. Tailor your studying habits accordingly. Be willing to work really long hours if you weren't already doing so. Bust your ass for 3 months and see where it takes you. A 3.5 GPA, which is obviously good, but not insane, would pull you up to median giving you a legitimate shot at big law. If you get a 3.1 again second semester, than it's probably time to cut your losses and drop out.




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