Straight Ps at Stanford Forum

[vamedic03]

Corporate work, will matter a lot. An associate at a top corporate firm will be exposed to bigger (billion dollar deals instead of millions), more complicated deals than a V50 associate. Goldman Sachs works mostly with s&c. Morgan Stanley with DPW. KKR/Blackstone with STB. They will farm work out elsewhere but not their big deals. Maybe they'll have a lower ranked firm do their run-of-the-mill credit default swap; but s&c orchestrated their $10B CDS with the German banks betting that Greece would default.

Just want to add to this that second tier firms will often find themselves on these mega-deals, but not in lead roles, so the quality of work also suffers as a result.

the three firms consistently at the table were S&C, DPW and STB.

Don't forget Cleary.

They might be the forgotten child. I didn't hear their name mentioned when I was interviewing with the above-mentioned-firms as the counterpart lawyers in the bailout deals.

Btw, when you pick a firm, don't use the same mentality as you did with picking law schools. The vault rankings don't correlate as much as USNWR in terms of exit options.

and finally, figure out who the predominant clients of a firm are and you'll know what the exit options are if you want to lateral in-house. The in-house positions usually come about from direct client relationships rather than resume bombing.

Though, outside of Weil, the V10 is a pretty good proxy. (when taken as a group)

[A&O]

Though, outside of Weil, the V10 is a pretty good proxy. (when taken as a group)

Well... interviewing at these firms clearly makes one an expert on these things, at the very least!

[vamedic03]

Though, outside of Weil, the V10 is a pretty good proxy. (when taken as a group)

Well... interviewing at these firms clearly makes one an expert on these things, at the very least!

Probably overly harsh towards Weil... still though, it'd be hard for someone to go wrong with a V10 firm so long one is well informed on what it's particular strengths are.

[A&O]

Probably overly harsh towards Weil... still though, it'd be hard for someone to go wrong with a V10 firm so long one is well informed on what it's particular strengths are.

Sorry. I was referencing the other poster.

[Anonymous User]

Question here-

You get ALL P's in your first year, or maybe 1 H or 2 Hs.

How screwed are you? I get the impression you're actually OK.

But - does second year give you a second chance if you pull your grades up? Are you truly bound by your first year? I am unclear about this.

[ArthurDigbySellers]

Wait...wait...straight P's at Stanford and you might get shut out of SF or DC? Then why bother going there over scholly elsewhere!

[Anonymous User]

I'm gonna bump this, also curious. what about secondary markets? anecdotal experience from SLS students please...

[Anonymous User]

2L at SLS here--straight Ps at SLS *might* get you shut out at SF/DC. But not necessarily. In other words, you can be the literally last person in the class at SLS and still have a decent shot at the two most competitive markets out there. That's why you go to SLS over scholly elsewhere (there are countless other reasons I won't get into).

My sense for secondary markets is that if you have a connection, your grades don't matter that much. As with everything else, good grades will smooth things out, but I think if you get straight Ps your 1L year and want to go to, say, Houston, and have strong Houston connections, you won't have a problem.

[Anonymous User]

Two related questions for SLS folks:

1) How much would membership on Law Review make up for all Ps?

2) Should someone with all Ps even try out for Law Review during spring quarter, or instead focus on improving their grades?

[Anonymous User]

SLR student here--

I'll answer your second question (I have no idea about the answer to the first part of your question other than it can only help): doing the candidate exercise for SLR isn't likely to be the difference in any grades for you Spring Quarter (as 90% of it comes after your last final), so that shouldn't be a reason not to try out for law review.

[Anonymous User]

SLR student here--

I'll answer your second question (I have no idea about the answer to the first part of your question other than it can only help): doing the candidate exercise for SLR isn't likely to be the difference in any grades for you Spring Quarter (as 90% of it comes after your last final), so that shouldn't be a reason not to try out for law review.

What if you have to take it during the second option (during spring quarter)?

[Anonymous User]

As in, you will be doing the editing portion of the exercise during the quarter? Or you will be doing the writing portion?

[09042014]

Wait...wait...straight P's at Stanford and you might get shut out of SF or DC? Then why bother going there over scholly elsewhere!

Because straight B's and B-'s at a t14 is more fucked.

[Anonymous User]

I'm going to bump this thread and ask how someone with 3 or 4 Hs at SLS is looking for OCI. For SF, DC, and NY?

[Anonymous User]

I'm going to bump this thread and ask how someone with 3 or 4 Hs at SLS is looking for OCI. For SF, DC, and NY?

Sort of on-point: I believe that 4-5 Hs is around median at SLS.

[Kronk]

I love how people at Stanford have taken 13 graded classes at the end of their 1L year and we've taken 7.

[Anonymous User]

SLS 2L here. Was wondering if anyone had any idea how firms will take it if they see straight P's 2L year? Is this a deal breaker or cause for a cold offer? Assume v10.

SLS 2L here. People I talked to said that most V10 firm didn't ask for transcripts. Some made u sign a thing where you agree to let them have access but maybe they do that to make sure you will graduate.

V10 is not going to no offer SLS students, they have a hard enough time recruiting people to the NY firms as is...unless you're talking Williams and Connelly I have no clue. Take a look at the employment info and email the 3Ls if you're nervous.

To the OP, I have a good friend who got straight P and got 1 offer in SF. While this person was targeting multiple markets (and had offers there) it was tough for him/her. The offers were sub V50 IIRC. I recommend you take classes full of 2L/3L cause we're pretty checked out ATM.

You should do better 3rd quarter cause by then all the 3Ls don't care and some of the 2Ls who do are prolly doing clinic (supreme court most likely)

Curious to know which firms ask you to sign a waiver for transcript release. Is this common practice? Always feel uneasy about it and prefer to submit my transcript personally.

What if you agree to submit a transcript on demand instead of signing a waiver -- do they still force you to sign?

[Anonymous User]

I'm going to bump this thread and ask how someone with 3 or 4 Hs at SLS is looking for OCI. For SF, DC, and NY?

Bump

[Anonymous User]

I'm going to bump this thread and ask how someone with 3 or 4 Hs at SLS is looking for OCI. For SF, DC, and NY?

Bump

Anyone? Please?

[Haribo]

Have you spoken to career services? They were pretty realistic when I spoke to them.

I would guess that 3 or 4 H's is at or a bit below median and SF and DC are tough markets to break. If you really don't have a preference maybe focusing on NY is better? As a fellow 1L I don't have any secret insider information, so take my advice with a big grain of salt.

[Anonymous User]

Have you spoken to career services? They were pretty realistic when I spoke to them.

I would guess that 3 or 4 H's is at or a bit below median and SF and DC are tough markets to break. If you really don't have a preference maybe focusing on NY is better? As a fellow 1L I don't have any secret insider information, so take my advice with a big grain of salt.

I'm thinking that 4 Hs is median, rather than 3, in part since Fed Lit counts as 2 Hs and because a lot of people took seminars in the spring where 40% could get Hs. There's probably a large bunch of the class with 3-4 Hs, a smaller bunch with 6-7 Hs, and a slightly smaller bunch with 0-1 H.

[Anonymous User]

I have 9 Hs, no prizes.

Any idea what % that is?

[Anonymous User]

I have 9 Hs, no prizes.

Any idea what % that is?

You're probably top 10%, though possibly a bit lower and possibly a bit higher. Congratulations on such phenomenal grades! Almost no firm, government agency, or public interest group is out of your reach with 9 Hs.

[Anonymous User]

I made this:

It assumes 13 classes taken, and that grades are randomly distributed in each class between 33% H's and 67% P's. I know that many smaller classes have a 40% H cap, so my distribution probably overestimates the percentile you're in with a given number of H's. Because of the randomness assumption, this also does not take into account student ability. Lastly, this does not take into account class prizes.

So, if you were to randomly distribute 33% H's to each class, this is what you would end up seeing:

Number of H's - Probability

13 - 0.00006%
12 - 0.0016%
11 - 0.002%
10 - 0.14%
9 - 0.7%
8 - 2.6%
7 - 6.9%
6 - 13.8%
5 - 20.7%
4 - 23.0%
3 - 18.4%
2 - 10.0%
1 - 3.3%
0 - 0.5%

So, median is around 4. But accounting for the 40% H cap in many classes, it might even be bumped closer to 5. And factoring in students' "law school ability" might push more people to the extremes, but I'm not sure such a thing exists and it probably varies year to year. Enjoy.

[Anonymous User]

I made this:

It assumes 13 classes taken, and that grades are randomly distributed in each class between 33% H's and 67% P's. I know that many smaller classes have a 40% H cap, so my distribution probably overestimates the percentile you're in with a given number of H's. Because of the randomness assumption, this also does not take into account student ability. Lastly, this does not take into account class prizes.

So, if you were to randomly distribute 33% H's to each class, this is what you would end up seeing:

Number of H's - Probability

13 - 0.00006%
12 - 0.0016%
11 - 0.002%
10 - 0.14%
9 - 0.7%
8 - 2.6%
7 - 6.9%
6 - 13.8%
5 - 20.7%
4 - 23.0%
3 - 18.4%
2 - 10.0%
1 - 3.3%
0 - 0.5%

So, median is around 4. But accounting for the 40% H cap in many classes, it might even be bumped closer to 5. And factoring in students' "law school ability" might push more people to the extremes, but I'm not sure such a thing exists and it probably varies year to year. Enjoy.

Law students shouldn't attempt statistics. QED.