Median, URM, T14

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Doritos
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Re: Median, URM, T14

Postby Doritos » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
But why send them in the first place? That is the point I am making.


Because it's a small cost compared to the benefit of adding just one more diverse member to the class.


Exactly. My point is that there exists such a benefit. Firms do not give out tons of offers to Howard students but they go there anyway in hopes of grabbing a top performer. They want these particular top performers (as opposed to New York Law School, Hofstra, Stetson, name your TTT) because of their URM status. Not to say they are just getting the job because of their URM status but the reason why SO MANY firms flock there is because of the diverse nature of Howard's student population.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Median, URM, T14

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
From personal experience (I'm a black male): When I was just above median, I routinely got interviews/callbacks at firms that had hard top 25% cutoffs. When I moved up and was just inside the top 25%, I routinely got interviews/callbacks at firms that had hard top 5-10% cutoffs.


This shouldn't be taken as evidence of anything. Published firm cut-offs are routinely ignored by the firms themselves, diversity or otherwise.



Besides that I've talked to my classmates/upperclassmen (urm and non) about their results, partners that I am close with at a variety of different firms, associates who graduated from a variety of different schools. Like I said, my impression is that a median URM at a t1 is generally going to perform as if they were top 25% at their school. Drop below median and you're just as screwed as your median classmates.

FWIW I clerked at 2 firms 1L summer. The two other 1L's at my first firm were both firmly inside the top 25%, and the firm had a top 25% cutoff. At the the second firm, the 5 other 1L's were also firmly in the top 25% and the firm had a top 25% cutoff. I was the only URM, and like I said before, I was just above median. Perhaps my own personal sample is a bit small, but all the other info I've gathered on top of that is what makes me feel the way I do.
Last edited by Aqualibrium on Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:09 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Median, URM, T14

Postby Kohinoor » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Why would the firm's clientele care about the demographics of the firm? Why does it matter to them?

http://www.law.com/jsp/cc/PubArticleCC. ... 6647128531

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Sinra
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Re: Median, URM, T14

Postby Sinra » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Why would the firm's clientele care about the demographics of the firm? Why does it matter to them?


If I ran a business and wanted the legal services of a firm and saw a sea of Caucasian faces only I would be completely turned off. Let's not forget that there are people of color in all kinds of businesses. There is no way I would hire a firm to represent the interests of me or my phantom shareholders or partners that didn't in some way reflect (or try to reflect) that the population is not 100% Caucasian.

Point is, firms will want to hire URMs because at the end of the day, there are so few in the legal field that they can afford to dip down to median or a bit below.

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Re: Median, URM, T14

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:06 pm

If I ran a business and wanted the legal services of a firm and saw a sea of Caucasian faces only I would be completely turned off. Let's not forget that there are people of color in all kinds of businesses. There is no way I would hire a firm to represent the interests of me or my phantom shareholders or partners that didn't in some way reflect (or try to reflect) that the population is not 100% Caucasian.


It's more than this. In-house counsel are, in general, getting more diverse, and they demand that the people they hire have similar diversity practices. Similarly, some people just don't feel comfortable buying clothes from sweatshops (no pun intended).

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Sinra
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Re: Median, URM, T14

Postby Sinra » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It's more than this. In-house counsel are, in general, getting more diverse, and they demand that the people they hire have similar diversity practices. Similarly, some people just don't feel comfortable buying clothes from sweatshops (no pun intended).


I agree with that. I'm a URM and if I were to be hired by a firm I would feel the same way. Wouldn't you? The dearth of numbers of URMs in law school and the legal profession (and in the order of African-American-->Mex/PR/etc-->other ethnically diverse) makes the idea that they would go lower than top 25-30% at a T14 more than believable. They have to. Where else are they going to get us from?--there's only so many top performing URMs to go around.

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Re: Median, URM, T14

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:52 pm

This is an interesting discussion.




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