My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

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Lawguru
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My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby Lawguru » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:33 pm

I don't know what happened to me this semester. I was fortunate to be in the top 10 % of my class when this semester started. I received offers in NYC, Chi, Minneapolis, DC, and Boston. My cumulative GPA dipped bad this semester. I went from a 3.67 to a 3.59. I got the highest grade in one summer course and (somehow) the 2nd lowest in another. I then did well (3.4 . . . okay and a 4.0) in 2 of my classes this semester, and bombed the last one (2.8 ) making my GPA dip to where it is.

This said, my class rank has not dipped substantially. I applied to law firms stating I was in the top 15 % and and I am still in the top 15 to 20 % of my class.

Am I screwed? How substantial are 2L grades? I know it is firmed dependent. I know my firm requests a transcript, but most attorneys tell me it is very secondary at that point. Is my dip substantial enough to ruin me?

Insight welcomed and only serious responses please. I am legitimately concerned.

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drdolittle
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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby drdolittle » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:40 pm

Lawguru wrote:Is my dip substantial enough to ruin me?


Are you serious?! I vote NO.

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Lawguru
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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby Lawguru » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:45 pm

drdolittle wrote:
Lawguru wrote:Is my dip substantial enough to ruin me?


Are you serious?! I vote NO.


I am very serious.

Aqualibrium
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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:47 pm

Not a big deal. Especially if you rebound and have a strong spring semester.

Bounce back this semester, then go to work and do your best. From my experience as an SA, being likable and doing good work is king. Especially if you do a good enough job that a partner or senior associate takes a liking to you...
Last edited by Aqualibrium on Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lisjjen
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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby lisjjen » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:48 pm

I'm having the same worry but on the other end of school. Spring '10 looked like a 3.9. Fall '10 looked like a 3.3. Something, something, something debate team captain, three hardest classes in my major and a full time job for a congressman. I'm just hoping none of my offers get revoked... if they even do that with law school.

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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:03 pm

I wouldn't worry about the drop from top 10% to top 20%. But getting the second lowest grade in one of you class I would be fairly surprised if law firms didn't ask about that grade. What happened in that class? You should have a good reason for that grade when firms ask you about it.

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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I wouldn't worry about the drop from top 10% to top 20%. But getting the second lowest grade in one of you class I would be fairly surprised if law firms didn't ask about that grade. What happened in that class? You should have a good reason for that grade when firms ask you about it.



I don't think you ever need to formulate a "reason" for a bad grade that is an anomaly of sorts. Sound's like you're making excuses imo. The best thing you could do is some variation of this:

Laugh it off and say "every partner, attorney, and professor I've talked to has had those one or two grades that just comes out of nowhere."

Then get serious and say "I worked hard in that class just as I have in all the others, but for whatever reason, that effort didn't translate into the type of grade I'm used to. I can't really make any excuses for it. I spoke to the professor and got some valuable insights about how to perform better on his exams in the future. All I can say is rather than worry about it too much, I took it as an opportunity to learn, and I honestly don't believe that it's indicative of my abilities."

That's what I would do/have done, and it worked pretty well.

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drdolittle
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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby drdolittle » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:14 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I wouldn't worry about the drop from top 10% to top 20%. But getting the second lowest grade in one of you class I would be fairly surprised if law firms didn't ask about that grade. What happened in that class? You should have a good reason for that grade when firms ask you about it.



I don't think you ever need to formulate a "reason" for a bad grade that is an anomaly of sorts. Sound's like you're making excuses imo. The best thing you could do is some variation of this:

Laugh it off and say "every partner, attorney, and professor I've talked to has had those one or two grades that just comes out of nowhere."

Then get serious and say "I worked hard in that class just as I have in all the others, but for whatever reason, that effort didn't translate into the type of grade I'm used to. I can't really make any excuses for it. I spoke to the professor and got some valuable insights about how to perform better on his exams in the future. All I can say is rather than worry about it too much, I took it as an opportunity to learn, and I honestly don't believe that it's indicative of my abilities."

That's what I would do/have done, and it worked pretty well.


I agree, this is far more honorable than making up some bullshit excuse.

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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby Sup Kid » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:16 pm

Lawguru wrote:I don't know what happened to me this semester. I was fortunate to be in the top 10 % of my class when this semester started. I received offers in NYC, Chi, Minneapolis, DC, and Boston. My cumulative GPA dipped bad this semester. I went from a 3.67 to a 3.59.


Seriously?? You have a 3.59 cum and you're worried about being no-offered? So long as you stay above a 3.4 or so, and DO QUALITY WORK over the summer, you'll be fine.

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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby Lawguru » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:18 pm

Yeah . . . I don't know for SURE if it is the second lowest grade in the class. I am just assuming a 2.8 is one of the lower grades. It is still a B- though. I got the same grade in a summer class, but the professor's highest grade in the class was a freaking 3.5 (I don't know why). There was no curve, and it was very harsh. It just sucks because all of my bad grades really happened within a 1.5 semester period (summer class and then this semester).

Would it be appropriate to ask an associate at my firm (who has offered to answer any questions) about it, and just be forthright?

Also: Does the fact that the class I bombed is Professional Responsibility make a big difference? I have no idea why I did poorly but I didn't get to the end of the test for whatever reason (failure in timing) which I think screwed me bad.

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KMaine
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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby KMaine » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:23 pm

Sup Kid wrote:
Lawguru wrote:I don't know what happened to me this semester. I was fortunate to be in the top 10 % of my class when this semester started. I received offers in NYC, Chi, Minneapolis, DC, and Boston. My cumulative GPA dipped bad this semester. I went from a 3.67 to a 3.59.


Seriously?? You have a 3.59 cum and you're worried about being no-offered? So long as you stay above a 3.4 or so, and DO QUALITY WORK over the summer, you'll be fine.


This is the ONLY credited response. Noboby will care or ever ask you about any of this.

Aqualibrium
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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:25 pm

I wouldn't draw attention to it. Just relax.

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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:26 pm

Lawguru wrote:Yeah . . . I don't know for SURE if it is the second lowest grade in the class. I am just assuming a 2.8 is one of the lower grades. It is still a B- though. I got the same grade in a summer class, but the professor's highest grade in the class was a freaking 3.5 (I don't know why). There was no curve, and it was very harsh. It just sucks because all of my bad grades really happened within a 1.5 semester period (summer class and then this semester).

Would it be appropriate to ask an associate at my firm (who has offered to answer any questions) about it, and just be forthright?

Also: Does the fact that the class I bombed is Professional Responsibility make a big difference? I have no idea why I did poorly but I didn't get to the end of the test for whatever reason (failure in timing) which I think screwed me bad.


Oh ok, when you said second lowest grade I was thinking like a D or something. B- is not that bad. I don't think firms will care that much as long you keep decent grades.

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James Bond
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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby James Bond » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:31 pm

Lawguru wrote: I went from a 3.67 to a 3.59. I am legitimately concerned.


:lol: OMG I had a .08 dip in GPA! I'll NEVER get a job!

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Lawguru
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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby Lawguru » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:34 pm

To be honest, the I find tremendous comfort in the fact that people are giving me hell for even starting this thread. Sorry if you all think this is a flame. I am sort of stunned at my PR grade, and at the dive. The firm I am working for is a Vault 15 and all those from my law school that got jobs there were order of the Coif, etc., so that also drew some panic to may situation.

Thanks all for the responses, continued comments (giving me hell or not) are appreciated.

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underdawg
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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby underdawg » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:49 pm

pr would be the best class of all to bomb too...

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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby Voyager » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:59 pm

Lawguru wrote:To be honest, the I find tremendous comfort in the fact that people are giving me hell for even starting this thread. Sorry if you all think this is a flame. I am sort of stunned at my PR grade, and at the dive. The firm I am working for is a Vault 15 and all those from my law school that got jobs there were order of the Coif, etc., so that also drew some panic to may situation.

Thanks all for the responses, continued comments (giving me hell or not) are appreciated.


Dude. You need to relax and get some perspective on life.

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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:28 am

James Bond wrote:
Lawguru wrote: I went from a 3.67 to a 3.59. I am legitimately concerned.


:lol: OMG I had a .08 dip in GPA! I'll NEVER get a job!


This.

Wavelet
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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby Wavelet » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:33 am

Lawguru wrote:To be honest, the I find tremendous comfort in the fact that people are giving me hell for even starting this thread. Sorry if you all think this is a flame. I am sort of stunned at my PR grade, and at the dive. The firm I am working for is a Vault 15 and all those from my law school that got jobs there were order of the Coif, etc., so that also drew some panic to may situation.

Thanks all for the responses, continued comments (giving me hell or not) are appreciated.


V15? I'd only be worried if it's Gibson Dunn. And even then, by "worried" I mean make sure you don't get another B-.

A&O
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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby A&O » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:39 am

Wavelet wrote:
Lawguru wrote:To be honest, the I find tremendous comfort in the fact that people are giving me hell for even starting this thread. Sorry if you all think this is a flame. I am sort of stunned at my PR grade, and at the dive. The firm I am working for is a Vault 15 and all those from my law school that got jobs there were order of the Coif, etc., so that also drew some panic to may situation.

Thanks all for the responses, continued comments (giving me hell or not) are appreciated.


V15? I'd only be worried if it's Gibson Dunn. And even then, by "worried" I mean make sure you don't get another B-.


Sounds more like Debevoise then Gibson Dunn. Though Debevoise isn't too selective, I can imagine that they're one of those firms with lots of coif people. Gibson Dunn was never really selective on the grades front.

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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby Wavelet » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:46 am

A&O wrote:
Wavelet wrote:
Lawguru wrote:To be honest, the I find tremendous comfort in the fact that people are giving me hell for even starting this thread. Sorry if you all think this is a flame. I am sort of stunned at my PR grade, and at the dive. The firm I am working for is a Vault 15 and all those from my law school that got jobs there were order of the Coif, etc., so that also drew some panic to may situation.

Thanks all for the responses, continued comments (giving me hell or not) are appreciated.


V15? I'd only be worried if it's Gibson Dunn. And even then, by "worried" I mean make sure you don't get another B-.


Sounds more like Debevoise then Gibson Dunn. Though Debevoise isn't too selective, I can imagine that they're one of those firms with lots of coif people. Gibson Dunn was never really selective on the grades front.


In NY, yes. But Gibson Dunn DC is very selective with grades, and GDC in general is infamous for scrutinizing 2L grades.

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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby nyulawguy » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:50 am

Do good work over the summer. Period. Once you get an offer, the summer is where they truly evaluate. If you do excellent work and they were to ding you based on a grade in a class, you probably don't really want to be there.

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underdawg
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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby underdawg » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:55 am

nyulawguy wrote:Do good work over the summer. Period. Once you get an offer, the summer is where they truly evaluate. If you do excellent work and they were to ding you based on a grade in a class, you probably don't really want to be there.

why do people say dumb shit like this? even if the firm is unusually picky about 2L grades, i'm sure OP would rather work there than be unemployed.

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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby nyulawguy » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:59 am

underdawg wrote:
nyulawguy wrote:Do good work over the summer. Period. Once you get an offer, the summer is where they truly evaluate. If you do excellent work and they were to ding you based on a grade in a class, you probably don't really want to be there.

why do people say dumb shit like this? even if the firm is unusually picky about 2L grades, i'm sure OP would rather work there than be unemployed.


That is your assumption, but some people realize that one firm job is pretty much the same as the other, with certain exceptions regarding types of work. The difference maker is culture. Even if you don't realize it going in, you will in a few months on the job, Mr. 3L.

Aqualibrium
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Re: My Grades -- a potential no offer waiting to happen?

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:04 am

underdawg wrote:
nyulawguy wrote:Do good work over the summer. Period. Once you get an offer, the summer is where they truly evaluate. If you do excellent work and they were to ding you based on a grade in a class, you probably don't really want to be there.

why do people say dumb shit like this? even if the firm is unusually picky about 2L grades, i'm sure OP would rather work there than be unemployed.



Maybe that's the problem with the current law school system?

A bunch of people justifying six figure debt based on their percentage chance of getting a job that will enable them to pay it off. The jobs that fit that description are built on a model that understands already that the overwhelming majority of it's hires will in fact be miserable, and won't last more than 2-5 years.

Why torture yourself?




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