2L losing complete hope

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ResolutePear
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby ResolutePear » Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:49 pm

General Tso wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:I've really had enough of this. Get on topic or go chill elsewhere.


I don't see how you guys agree to become mods. It's the same crap, day after day.


Hey! Just like the pope...

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JazzOne
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby JazzOne » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:14 pm

General Tso wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:I've really had enough of this. Get on topic or go chill elsewhere.


I don't see how you guys agree to become mods. It's the same crap, day after day.

Yeah, I thought about applying at one point, and then I thought to myself, "What the fuck for?"

A&O
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby A&O » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:25 pm

Yes, this is exactly why I'll never take a moderator position if it's offered to me.

:lol: :roll:

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JG Hall
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby JG Hall » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:30 am

HarlandBassett wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
HarlandBassett wrote:
What exactly are these bids?

I have a friend at Dartmouth Tuck (b-school) who said that Tuck gives 1000 points to bid on OCIs if the employers dont select your resume from the CDO resume pile. It seems counterintuitive that these student bid on interviews @ firms that didnt want to look at their resume in the first place.


CCN are straight up lottery schools, meaning the firms have to interview everyone who bids on them and receives an interview through the online lottery. There is no prescreening and the firms don't post grade cutoffs. The OCS does not provide much in the way of guidance as to what the grade cutoffs are, so people have to make judgment calls based on their preconceptions and the information they pick up from alternative sources like online forums, practicing attorneys, students who have been through the process, rankings, etc. I (the poster in the original quote above) bid on a secondary market and got shut out. I simply did not know how selective that market would be, made a judgment call to bid there instead of NYC, and got burned. It is bound to happen to a certain number of people when you are working with limited information.

Why does CCN all choose the lottery system? Why not just interview the most qualified ones? I'd be pissed if I were top 10% with relevant WE and didnt get a specific firm I wanted due to unluckiness from the lottery system.

You don't really know anything about anything, it seems.

If you end up not getting an interview you wanted come OCI, it's due to your own lack of hustle at CLS. CLS has add/drop of the extra interview slots (where people can pick up a bunch - I think I added 5ish), and every morning before interviews start all of the open interview slots are given away (first come, first serve, whether). And if you still don't get one, a lot of firms will squeeze you into the interview schedule if you try hard enough. Plus, bid wisely.

The bid system is really helpful for the majority of CLS students, because outside of certain firms/URMs/IPSECURE, the grade cut-offs aren't as stiff as one might think. A person with shit grades can definitely charm their way into K&E, Skadden, etc. (where otherwise they wouldn't have passed the screening process). And in the middle third, it's a bit of a free for all, and differentiating between grades isn't worth it, given the curve, so there's not a lot saying who is more "qualified." Lottery is definitely the way to go at CCN, as long as firms stay willing to deeper into the class.

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HarlandBassett
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby HarlandBassett » Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:00 pm

JG Hall wrote:
HarlandBassett wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
HarlandBassett wrote:
What exactly are these bids?

I have a friend at Dartmouth Tuck (b-school) who said that Tuck gives 1000 points to bid on OCIs if the employers dont select your resume from the CDO resume pile. It seems counterintuitive that these student bid on interviews @ firms that didnt want to look at their resume in the first place.


CCN are straight up lottery schools, meaning the firms have to interview everyone who bids on them and receives an interview through the online lottery. There is no prescreening and the firms don't post grade cutoffs. The OCS does not provide much in the way of guidance as to what the grade cutoffs are, so people have to make judgment calls based on their preconceptions and the information they pick up from alternative sources like online forums, practicing attorneys, students who have been through the process, rankings, etc. I (the poster in the original quote above) bid on a secondary market and got shut out. I simply did not know how selective that market would be, made a judgment call to bid there instead of NYC, and got burned. It is bound to happen to a certain number of people when you are working with limited information.

Why does CCN all choose the lottery system? Why not just interview the most qualified ones? I'd be pissed if I were top 10% with relevant WE and didnt get a specific firm I wanted due to unluckiness from the lottery system.

You don't really know anything about anything, it seems.

Hence, the name Harland Bassett :D

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JG Hall
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby JG Hall » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:39 am

HarlandBassett wrote:Hence, the name Harland Bassett :D

I don't know what that means, but I do know I'm too lazy to google it.

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HarlandBassett
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby HarlandBassett » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:23 pm

JG Hall wrote:
HarlandBassett wrote:Hence, the name Harland Bassett :D

I don't know what that means, but I do know I'm too lazy to google it.

Harland Bassett is a fictional lawyer on The Practice. He is known as the "all-time-loser attorney" with zero trial wins and he is a product of the oversupply of lawyers. He reminds me of that fat guy from Office Space with the red stapler.

rose711
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby rose711 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:57 pm

To the OP - losing hope is the worst thing you can do; you need to stay positive and also realize that the economy isn't your fault, the lack of jobs isn't your fault and the crappy career services, who expect people to magically get jobs because the degree says CLS or NYU are not your fault. You have to work on stress management. That may seem like silly advice, but being stressed out and depressed makes everything seem so much harder. I wonder if perhaps that is why the thought of doing this all again next year feels futile and overwhelming. I understand that what you are experiencing would cause anyone to want to give up, but fighting that attitude is as important as anything else you can do in your job search. And I don't mean just think positive, I mean actual work at stress management.

I have one suggestion. The Association of the Bar of the City of New York has a group of career counselors. http://www.abcny.org/LegalCareerCenter/ ... s_list.htm

I think it may be worth talking to them, even if they don't work with students generally. I think you need to contact the center and tell them your situation and ask for a free or reduced rate consultation. I think you need professional career advice from people who have worked with lawyers for a long time. When working with a counselor, even before you met them, you should tell them your situation and see if they think they can help you.

The bar association has other resources for people looking for jobs - there is no reason that students can't avail themselves of it.

I am not sure about the cost of the student membership rate, but I think that if you explain your situation to the Membership person, you can get the fee, if any, waived. I was disabled for a while due to illness and they waived my fee until I could get back to work.

Good luck!

PS There are several bar associations in the city. I would check with each of them to see what career services they offer. All of them should welcome students.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:24 am

OP: Sorry for the delayed response/absence. Finally got a couple offers, but they are govt jobs that I feel would be detrimental to my career either b/c they involve another job in a field I have worked in twice before that I do not wish to pursue further or be pigeonholed in, or is in a state that I have no connections to and therefore little hope of a job offer or much of a career path in the future there. So now feel trapped into making these gambles throughout the semester in hopes of getting something that would better salvage my career and give me the greater prospects for a career in a practice I actually desire (which does not necessarily mean law firms). At the same time, I am stuck with everyone who had gotten a job at OCI giving me their advice that sounds like should just take whatever I can get and be happy to be relegated to the lower levels of the legal profession. I hate having to be in this completely irregular schedule for job searching and being treated like I am irrational by my peers and hoping that career services can give me more accurate advice.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP: Sorry for the delayed response/absence. Finally got a couple offers, but they are govt jobs that I feel would be detrimental to my career either b/c they involve another job in a field I have worked in twice before that I do not wish to pursue further or be pigeonholed in, or is in a state that I have no connections to and therefore little hope of a job offer or much of a career path in the future there. So now feel trapped into making these gambles throughout the semester in hopes of getting something that would better salvage my career and give me the greater prospects for a career in a practice I actually desire (which does not necessarily mean law firms). At the same time, I am stuck with everyone who had gotten a job at OCI giving me their advice that sounds like should just take whatever I can get and be happy to be relegated to the lower levels of the legal profession. I hate having to be in this completely irregular schedule for job searching and being treated like I am irrational by my peers and hoping that career services can give me more accurate advice.


You cannot be picky about jobs if you aren't a hot commodity....

Acquiring a job for the summer should be your first priority - after you get a job you can continue looking.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:56 am

OP: I'm not trying to be picky. I am trying to think about my career in the near future. And I don't want to do what you are suggesting in accepting jobs and then rescinding them later since that raises a host of other issues that I don't want to deal with.

rose711
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby rose711 » Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:46 pm

At the same time, I am stuck with everyone who had gotten a job at OCI giving me their advice that sounds like should just take whatever I can get and be happy to be relegated to the lower levels of the legal profession. I hate having to be in this completely irregular schedule for job searching and being treated like I am irrational by my peers and hoping that career services can give me more accurate advice.


Just quoting the relevant bit of the OPs post. I think you need to stop looking for validation and support by people who don't agree with your career thoughts. FWIW, I think you sound very smart and rational in what you are doing and the decisions you are making. I would follow you feel is best, you have good judgment. And good judgment, IMHO, is the single most essential requirement for a lawyer.

I still think the bar association is worth looking into - there are two women there who works with students. You only need one meeting - this isn't a lifetime undertaking. I can't urge you more to get professional advice and follow your own judgement of what will work best for you. All of these people have been vetted by the ABCNY.

http://www.abcny.org/LegalCareerCenter/ ... _Julia.htm
http://www.abcny.org/LegalCareerCenter/ ... illary.htm

If you choose not to do this, that is up to you, I just wanted you, and others, to know this service is available.

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Unemployed
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby Unemployed » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:18 pm

How did you do last semester?

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bostlaw
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby bostlaw » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:26 pm

General Tso wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:I've really had enough of this. Get on topic or go chill elsewhere.


I don't see how you guys agree to become mods. It's the same crap, day after day.


whats the point of being a mod? pretend power or something?
oh and OP dnt lose hope stick through it.

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ResolutePear
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:32 pm

bostlaw wrote:
General Tso wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:I've really had enough of this. Get on topic or go chill elsewhere.


I don't see how you guys agree to become mods. It's the same crap, day after day.


whats the point of being a mod? pretend power or something?
oh and OP dnt lose hope stick through it.


It means you're not a selfish SOB and can do some community work for free. It's a job - anybody telling you otherwise is lying - more or less.

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bostlaw
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby bostlaw » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:34 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
bostlaw wrote:
General Tso wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:I've really had enough of this. Get on topic or go chill elsewhere.


I don't see how you guys agree to become mods. It's the same crap, day after day.


whats the point of being a mod? pretend power or something?
oh and OP dnt lose hope stick through it.


It means you're not a selfish SOB and can do some community work for free. It's a job - anybody telling you otherwise is lying - more or less.


so screwing around on the internet power tripping is both a job and helps the community? Im confused

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ResolutePear
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:38 pm

bostlaw wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
bostlaw wrote:
General Tso wrote:
I don't see how you guys agree to become mods. It's the same crap, day after day.


whats the point of being a mod? pretend power or something?
oh and OP dnt lose hope stick through it.


It means you're not a selfish SOB and can do some community work for free. It's a job - anybody telling you otherwise is lying - more or less.


so screwing around on the internet power tripping is both a job and helps the community? Im confused


So screwing around on the street power tripping/frisking people is both a job and helps the community? I'm confused.

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bostlaw
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby bostlaw » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:39 pm

are you attempting to compare a life saving police officer to a sub-par forum mod?

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ResolutePear
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:42 pm

bostlaw wrote:are you attempting to compare a life saving police officer to a sub-par forum mod?


Life saving? Have people been feeding you with Officer Friendly's spoon?

It has herpes, fwiw.

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bostlaw
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby bostlaw » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:43 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
bostlaw wrote:are you attempting to compare a life saving police officer to a sub-par forum mod?


Life saving? Have people been feeding you with Officer Friendly's spoon?

It has herpes, fwiw.


convo doesn't belong here but if your being serious, it sickens me.

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Veyron
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby Veyron » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:44 pm

bostlaw wrote:
General Tso wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:I've really had enough of this. Get on topic or go chill elsewhere.


I don't see how you guys agree to become mods. It's the same crap, day after day.


whats the point of being a mod? pretend power or something?
oh and OP dnt lose hope stick through it.


For the most part its just TTT students enjoying their one opportunity to exert power over people with higher intelligence and better job prospects - same concept as the power-tripping high school security guard.

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ResolutePear
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:46 pm

bostlaw wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
bostlaw wrote:are you attempting to compare a life saving police officer to a sub-par forum mod?


Life saving? Have people been feeding you with Officer Friendly's spoon?

It has herpes, fwiw.


convo doesn't belong here but if your being serious, it sickens me.


What sickens you? The fact that I don't trust police?

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forza
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby forza » Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:00 pm

This thread is a steaming pile.

Image

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nygrrrl
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby nygrrrl » Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:17 pm

Just FYI? If this thread goes an entire page without an on-topic post, I'll have to release my inner "power-tripping high school security guard" and shut this thing down.
Have a super afternoon!

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bostlaw
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Re: 2L losing complete hope

Postby bostlaw » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:02 pm

nygrrrl wrote:Just FYI? If this thread goes an entire page without an on-topic post, I'll have to release my inner "power-tripping high school security guard" and shut this thing down.
Have a super afternoon!


hahahahaha

anyways,
no pear. Not trusting police is not the issue, it seemed to me that you were like anti police but I may have jumped the gun.




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