2L losing complete hope Forum

[A&O]

Hiring partners.

As far as I know, hiring partners don't typically peruse TLS for their interviewees and look for their grammatical errors and typos.

I could be wrong, though.

[johnnyutah]

Dude, you need to meet people. Like, go out and totally abandon all the pride that you feel like you should have and schmooze the shit out of every attorney you can. I was in a similar boat as you last year (somewhat above median at t-14, 2 callbacks but no offers from 2L OCI) and, since the fall of my 2L year, I have gotten only one interview (which turned into my 2L summer job) despite sending out hundreds of applications for both 2L and postgraduation employment. Outside of OCI, just about the only way you get interviews is to be well-connected. Start working on that ASAP.

[dresden doll]

Sorry if the truth hurts, folks. Someone posted that the on campus interviewers are "resume gatherers." While that is somewhat true, if you are chosen for an interview at the firm, every person who speaks with you will write notes on a form about you. All of those notes are gathered and reviewed by the employment committee.

You aren't chosen for interviews at schools that operate on a lottery system. Firms at my school aren't allowed to pick and choose their candidates.

Anyway, your truth doesn't hurt me any. What you listed as good prep is exactly what I did: I bought two beautiful suits at Ann Taylor with the assistance of a friend who's extremely well informed about professional attire (and who's also blunt and critical) and had my hair straightened the night before OCI began. (Luckily, I have no raging acne or weight issues). The trouble was, my classmates did the same: all looked sharp and well put together at all times during the interview period.

Most law students, far as I can tell, take decent care of themselves (certainly more so than the general population). Where no one is sloppy looking, it's hard to stand out just because you're dressed in an expensive suit.

[A&O]

You aren't chosen for interviews at schools that operate on a lottery system. Firms at my school aren't allowed to pick and choose their candidates.

...I think he was referring to callback interviews.

[Hoopster]

You aren't chosen for interviews at schools that operate on a lottery system. Firms at my school aren't allowed to pick and choose their candidates.

...I think he was referring to callback interviews.

That was my impression too. Also, to stand out among all those sharp dressers, he mentioned it helps to be attractive. So try not to look like a dog.

I can tell dresden doll is gorgeous.

[jchoggan]

Hiring partners.

As far as I know, hiring partners don't typically peruse TLS for their interviewees and look for their grammatical errors and typos.

I could be wrong, though.

Granted, but he didn't restrict the question to TLS. I know that's what he meant, but still... obviously nobody cares if you're sloppy on an online forum, but it seems like terrible writing is pretty pervasive ITT (which probably translates to at least some sloppiness in other writing, like cover letters).

[A&O]

(which probably translates to at least some sloppiness in other writing, like cover letters).

I think that's a silly generalization. I'm just a lazy writer when I know it doesn't matter. How would that translate into sloppiness when I decide to be meticulous for some formal email or letter?

[Aqualibrium]

You aren't chosen for interviews at schools that operate on a lottery system. Firms at my school aren't allowed to pick and choose their candidates.

...I think he was referring to callback interviews.

That was my impression too. Also, to stand out among all those sharp dressers, he mentioned it helps to be attractive. So try not to look like a dog.

I can tell dresden doll is gorgeous.

Why is it that every time some one can confirm with any certainty that a person on the internet is a girl we get comments like "I bet she's hot" or "Pics!!!" etc... I want someone to say "I bet that broad is fugly." Just once...that'd make my day.

[jchoggan]

(which probably translates to at least some sloppiness in other writing, like cover letters).

I think that's a silly generalization. I'm just a lazy writer when I know it doesn't matter. How would that translate into sloppiness when I decide to be meticulous for some formal email or letter?

I don't disagree with you generally (and I'm not knocking your posts), but if someone doesn't know how to spell "certain," and they make numerous posts that are almost impossible to understand, my guess is that even their most meticulous writing will still have issues...

[Hoopster]

Why is it that every time some one can confirm with any certainty that a person on the internet is a girl we get comments like "I bet she's hot" or "Pics!!!" etc... I want someone to say "I bet that broad is fugly." Just once...that'd make my day.

Well, if calling a broad fugly means being dateless the rest of your life, go for it and make your day.

[Aqualibrium]

Why is it that every time some one can confirm with any certainty that a person on the internet is a girl we get comments like "I bet she's hot" or "Pics!!!" etc... I want someone to say "I bet that broad is fugly." Just once...that'd make my day.

Well, if calling a broad fugly means being dateless the rest of your life, go for it and make your day.

That's just the thing though, calling a girl on the internet fugly has as much to do with your actual dating life as calling a girl pretty on the internet...

[nn223]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chJgaksG ... re=related

[dresden doll]

You aren't chosen for interviews at schools that operate on a lottery system. Firms at my school aren't allowed to pick and choose their candidates.

...I think he was referring to callback interviews.

I assumed his post attempted at least in part to analyze where OP went wrong, and OP clearly stated he received no CBs in the first place.

[dresden doll]

You aren't chosen for interviews at schools that operate on a lottery system. Firms at my school aren't allowed to pick and choose their candidates.

...I think he was referring to callback interviews.

That was my impression too. Also, to stand out among all those sharp dressers, he mentioned it helps to be attractive. So try not to look like a dog.

I can tell dresden doll is gorgeous.

Why is it that every time some one can confirm with any certainty that a person on the internet is a girl we get comments like "I bet she's hot" or "Pics!!!" etc... I want someone to say "I bet that broad is fugly." Just once...that'd make my day.

You can take comfort from the fact that I actually rag on my looks pretty frequently.

[Voyager]

This thread might give you some inspiration:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=117187

Start speaking with professors.

[vanwinkle]

OP: I feel your pain, and I have no bullshit 0L "You-can-gets-a-jerb" suggestions for you.

However I do have a cool black guy suggestion. Have you considered selling dope?

Banned for racism, and unauthorized alting.

[Hoopster]

You can take comfort from the fact that I actually rag on my looks pretty frequently.

I knew I liked you for a reason: you're also very modest.

Now back to studying for finals. Sucks to have finals after Christmas break. YLS likes to mess with us in that way.

[09042014]

You can take comfort from the fact that I actually rag on my looks pretty frequently.

I knew I liked you for a reason: you're also very modest.

Now back to studying for finals. Sucks to have finals after Christmas break. YLS likes to mess with us in that way.

That is the most awful thing I've heard of but isn't it pass fail?

[Anonymous User]

I’m a CCN transfer that struck out at OCI. To be fair, the majority of transfers at my school did manage to snag something during OCI, but I’d still say that a solid ¼ or so came out of it with nothing. In hindsight, I wish I had just bid entirely on NYC as that appears to have been the easiest market to crack this year, but I wanted to move back home after law school (I’ll throw it out there that I still grew up in one of the biggest legal markets in the country). I’m not really sure what else I could have done differently in order to improve my chances of finding a job (had significantly above average grades at a top 10 undergrad, my old law school was a top 50 school where I graded right around the top of my class, and without outing myself, I think that it would be safe to say that my previous work experience was pretty legit). Also, I’ll throw it out there that although I wouldn’t put myself in the top 5% of people in terms of interviewing ability, I don’t think that I’m particularly awkward, my dating history wouldn’t make sense if I were below average in looks, and you can be sure that I dressed stylishly for OCI.

I completely agree with the poster that started this thread. It sucks pretty hard to be in this kind of position. A lot of the clerkships and good government jobs aren’t any easier to land than BigLaw, and I’m having trouble finding ANYTHING by this point. After spending the entire last semester debating about dropping out, I ultimately decided to stick it out and to finish the degree, though I feel like there’s probably a pretty decent chance that I won’t end up practicing as an attorney after graduating now. I guess that I could probably get a public defender or legal aid job, but at the risk of sounding like a complete jerk, I didn’t exactly take on an enormous amount in debt and transfer to CCN to do that.

You grow up spending your whole life constantly hearing about how education is the golden pathway to success. You succeed in following that path to an extent that I think it would be safe to say not many people in this country will. You see endless baby boomers thriving as lawyers who never would have been able to get their foot in the door were they applying to their first job today. And yet you can’t even find a job that will make paying back your student loans a reality. I think that the law school dream is getting pretty close to being dead. I’m not exactly sure what else I’d be doing were I not in law school right now, but I’m worried that I’m ultimately going to look back on the decision to go to law school (or at least the decision to transfer) as being the worst decision that I ever made in my life.


P.S. because I KNOW someone will bring this up. Last year all but 1 or 2 transfers at my school landed BigLaw, so don’t say that it was unrealistic to transfer to CCN this year expecting NLJ 250 or a good clerkship/government position… Transfers this year really had no way of knowing.

[duckfan00]

Exactly my thoughts....never believed I would be in this position after hitting on most of my goals...

[Anonymous User]

I’m a CCN transfer that struck out at OCI. To be fair, the majority of transfers at my school did manage to snag something during OCI, but I’d still say that a solid ¼ or so came out of it with nothing. In hindsight, I wish I had just bid entirely on NYC as that appears to have been the easiest market to crack this year, but I wanted to move back home after law school (I’ll throw it out there that I still grew up in one of the biggest legal markets in the country). I’m not really sure what else I could have done differently in order to improve my chances of finding a job (had significantly above average grades at a top 10 undergrad, my old law school was a top 50 school where I graded right around the top of my class, and without outing myself, I think that it would be safe to say that my previous work experience was pretty legit). Also, I’ll throw it out there that although I wouldn’t put myself in the top 5% of people in terms of interviewing ability, I don’t think that I’m particularly awkward, my dating history wouldn’t make sense if I were below average in looks, and you can be sure that I dressed stylishly for OCI.

I completely agree with the poster that started this thread. It sucks pretty hard to be in this kind of position. A lot of the clerkships and good government jobs aren’t any easier to land than BigLaw, and I’m having trouble finding ANYTHING by this point. After spending the entire last semester debating about dropping out, I ultimately decided to stick it out and to finish the degree, though I feel like there’s probably a pretty decent chance that I won’t end up practicing as an attorney after graduating now. I guess that I could probably get a public defender or legal aid job, but at the risk of sounding like a complete jerk, I didn’t exactly take on an enormous amount in debt and transfer to CCN to do that.

You grow up spending your whole life constantly hearing about how education is the golden pathway to success. You succeed in following that path to an extent that I think it would be safe to say not many people in this country will. You see endless baby boomers thriving as lawyers who never would have been able to get their foot in the door were they applying to their first job today. And yet you can’t even find a job that will make paying back your student loans a reality. I think that the law school dream is getting pretty close to being dead. I’m not exactly sure what else I’d be doing were I not in law school right now, but I’m worried that I’m ultimately going to look back on the decision to go to law school (or at least the decision to transfer) as being the worst decision that I ever made in my life.


P.S. because I KNOW someone will bring this up. Last year all but 1 or 2 transfers at my school landed BigLaw, so don’t say that it was unrealistic to transfer to CCN this year expecting NLJ 250 or a good clerkship/government position… Transfers this year really had no way of knowing.

I'm one of the other CCNers posting in this thread. I won't drop out (don't think I haven't considered it) but I'm just not sure what to do now. Nobody at my school seems to have any idea what life is like for a CCN person who doesn't have the ability to get biglaw or doesn't have a demonstrated commitment to public interest. It's like we're a new breed of law student nobody's ever seen before.

I'm sure there is some way we could get jobs and advance up the ladder in time, accepting right now that we won't be making a ton of money out of law school (where I'm from, 160K is a ton of money for a 25-27 year old). And maybe 10-15 years from now we'll look back and realize law school really wasn't a bad long term investment after all, though in the short term it might not give us the returns we'd hoped for.

I know it will be hard those first few years out of law school. But nobody at my school is coming out and telling us how we can regroup, come back, and still have a great life in 5, 10, 15 years, and that's really the scariest part of this whole thing. It's like we have to spend two years worrying about it, instead of two years planning our long term career path. Instead, most of the "alternative career paths." academia, AUSA, are geared to people who already have biglaw as a fallback. They need to go out and find people who never had that option, then invite them back and tell us how they got where they did.

[daesonesb]

I’m a CCN transfer that struck out at OCI. To be fair, the majority of transfers at my school did manage to snag something during OCI, but I’d still say that a solid ¼ or so came out of it with nothing. In hindsight, I wish I had just bid entirely on NYC as that appears to have been the easiest market to crack this year, but I wanted to move back home after law school (I’ll throw it out there that I still grew up in one of the biggest legal markets in the country). I’m not really sure what else I could have done differently in order to improve my chances of finding a job (had significantly above average grades at a top 10 undergrad, my old law school was a top 50 school where I graded right around the top of my class, and without outing myself, I think that it would be safe to say that my previous work experience was pretty legit). Also, I’ll throw it out there that although I wouldn’t put myself in the top 5% of people in terms of interviewing ability, I don’t think that I’m particularly awkward, my dating history wouldn’t make sense if I were below average in looks, and you can be sure that I dressed stylishly for OCI.

I completely agree with the poster that started this thread. It sucks pretty hard to be in this kind of position. A lot of the clerkships and good government jobs aren’t any easier to land than BigLaw, and I’m having trouble finding ANYTHING by this point. After spending the entire last semester debating about dropping out, I ultimately decided to stick it out and to finish the degree, though I feel like there’s probably a pretty decent chance that I won’t end up practicing as an attorney after graduating now. I guess that I could probably get a public defender or legal aid job, but at the risk of sounding like a complete jerk, I didn’t exactly take on an enormous amount in debt and transfer to CCN to do that.

You grow up spending your whole life constantly hearing about how education is the golden pathway to success. You succeed in following that path to an extent that I think it would be safe to say not many people in this country will. You see endless baby boomers thriving as lawyers who never would have been able to get their foot in the door were they applying to their first job today. And yet you can’t even find a job that will make paying back your student loans a reality. I think that the law school dream is getting pretty close to being dead. I’m not exactly sure what else I’d be doing were I not in law school right now, but I’m worried that I’m ultimately going to look back on the decision to go to law school (or at least the decision to transfer) as being the worst decision that I ever made in my life.


P.S. because I KNOW someone will bring this up. Last year all but 1 or 2 transfers at my school landed BigLaw, so don’t say that it was unrealistic to transfer to CCN this year expecting NLJ 250 or a good clerkship/government position… Transfers this year really had no way of knowing.

I'm one of the other CCNers posting in this thread. I won't drop out (don't think I haven't considered it) but I'm just not sure what to do now. Nobody in the school seems to have any idea what life is like for a CCN person who doesn't have the ability to get biglaw or doesn't have a demonstrated commitment to public interest. It's like we're a new breed.

I'm sure there is some way we could get jobs and advance up the ladder in time, accepting right now that we won't be making a ton of money out of law school (yes, 160K is a ton of money for a 25-27 year old where I'm from). And maybe 10-15 years from now we'll look back and realize law school really wasn't a bad long term investment after all, though in the short term it might not give us the returns we'd hoped for.

I know it will be hard those first few years out of law school. But nobody at my school is coming out and telling us how we can regroup, come back, and still have a great life in 5, 10, 15 years, and that's really the scariest part of this whole thing. It's like we have to spend two years worrying about it, instead of two years planning our long term career path. Instead, most of the "alternative career paths." academia, AUSA, are geared to people who already have biglaw as a fallback. They need to go out and find people who never had that option, then invite them back and tell us how they got where they did.

Not to be a dick, but why not start demonstrating an interest in PI work now? I'm sure there's plenty of clinics and whatnot in your area that could use you... Anything's a start right?

[Anonymous User]

I’m a CCN transfer that struck out at OCI. To be fair, the majority of transfers at my school did manage to snag something during OCI, but I’d still say that a solid ¼ or so came out of it with nothing. In hindsight, I wish I had just bid entirely on NYC as that appears to have been the easiest market to crack this year, but I wanted to move back home after law school (I’ll throw it out there that I still grew up in one of the biggest legal markets in the country). I’m not really sure what else I could have done differently in order to improve my chances of finding a job (had significantly above average grades at a top 10 undergrad, my old law school was a top 50 school where I graded right around the top of my class, and without outing myself, I think that it would be safe to say that my previous work experience was pretty legit). Also, I’ll throw it out there that although I wouldn’t put myself in the top 5% of people in terms of interviewing ability, I don’t think that I’m particularly awkward, my dating history wouldn’t make sense if I were below average in looks, and you can be sure that I dressed stylishly for OCI.

I completely agree with the poster that started this thread. It sucks pretty hard to be in this kind of position. A lot of the clerkships and good government jobs aren’t any easier to land than BigLaw, and I’m having trouble finding ANYTHING by this point. After spending the entire last semester debating about dropping out, I ultimately decided to stick it out and to finish the degree, though I feel like there’s probably a pretty decent chance that I won’t end up practicing as an attorney after graduating now. I guess that I could probably get a public defender or legal aid job, but at the risk of sounding like a complete jerk, I didn’t exactly take on an enormous amount in debt and transfer to CCN to do that.

You grow up spending your whole life constantly hearing about how education is the golden pathway to success. You succeed in following that path to an extent that I think it would be safe to say not many people in this country will. You see endless baby boomers thriving as lawyers who never would have been able to get their foot in the door were they applying to their first job today. And yet you can’t even find a job that will make paying back your student loans a reality. I think that the law school dream is getting pretty close to being dead. I’m not exactly sure what else I’d be doing were I not in law school right now, but I’m worried that I’m ultimately going to look back on the decision to go to law school (or at least the decision to transfer) as being the worst decision that I ever made in my life.


P.S. because I KNOW someone will bring this up. Last year all but 1 or 2 transfers at my school landed BigLaw, so don’t say that it was unrealistic to transfer to CCN this year expecting NLJ 250 or a good clerkship/government position… Transfers this year really had no way of knowing.

I'm one of the other CCNers posting in this thread. I won't drop out (don't think I haven't considered it) but I'm just not sure what to do now. Nobody in the school seems to have any idea what life is like for a CCN person who doesn't have the ability to get biglaw or doesn't have a demonstrated commitment to public interest. It's like we're a new breed.

I'm sure there is some way we could get jobs and advance up the ladder in time, accepting right now that we won't be making a ton of money out of law school (yes, 160K is a ton of money for a 25-27 year old where I'm from). And maybe 10-15 years from now we'll look back and realize law school really wasn't a bad long term investment after all, though in the short term it might not give us the returns we'd hoped for.

I know it will be hard those first few years out of law school. But nobody at my school is coming out and telling us how we can regroup, come back, and still have a great life in 5, 10, 15 years, and that's really the scariest part of this whole thing. It's like we have to spend two years worrying about it, instead of two years planning our long term career path. Instead, most of the "alternative career paths." academia, AUSA, are geared to people who already have biglaw as a fallback. They need to go out and find people who never had that option, then invite them back and tell us how they got where they did.

Not to be a dick, but why not start demonstrating an interest in PI work now? I'm sure there's plenty of clinics and whatnot in your area that could use you... Anything's a start right?

Trust me, I've been doing that for about a year. But I'm finding the public interest job market may be even more screwed than NYC biglaw. And by the time I get sufficient experience on there to convince people I'm serious, it may be too late. And I kind of feel bad, not to mention intimidated, trying to snag the same jobs as people who have spent significant time before law school in their fields.

[daesonesb]

I’m a CCN transfer that struck out at OCI. To be fair, the majority of transfers at my school did manage to snag something during OCI, but I’d still say that a solid ¼ or so came out of it with nothing. In hindsight, I wish I had just bid entirely on NYC as that appears to have been the easiest market to crack this year, but I wanted to move back home after law school (I’ll throw it out there that I still grew up in one of the biggest legal markets in the country). I’m not really sure what else I could have done differently in order to improve my chances of finding a job (had significantly above average grades at a top 10 undergrad, my old law school was a top 50 school where I graded right around the top of my class, and without outing myself, I think that it would be safe to say that my previous work experience was pretty legit). Also, I’ll throw it out there that although I wouldn’t put myself in the top 5% of people in terms of interviewing ability, I don’t think that I’m particularly awkward, my dating history wouldn’t make sense if I were below average in looks, and you can be sure that I dressed stylishly for OCI.

I completely agree with the poster that started this thread. It sucks pretty hard to be in this kind of position. A lot of the clerkships and good government jobs aren’t any easier to land than BigLaw, and I’m having trouble finding ANYTHING by this point. After spending the entire last semester debating about dropping out, I ultimately decided to stick it out and to finish the degree, though I feel like there’s probably a pretty decent chance that I won’t end up practicing as an attorney after graduating now. I guess that I could probably get a public defender or legal aid job, but at the risk of sounding like a complete jerk, I didn’t exactly take on an enormous amount in debt and transfer to CCN to do that.

You grow up spending your whole life constantly hearing about how education is the golden pathway to success. You succeed in following that path to an extent that I think it would be safe to say not many people in this country will. You see endless baby boomers thriving as lawyers who never would have been able to get their foot in the door were they applying to their first job today. And yet you can’t even find a job that will make paying back your student loans a reality. I think that the law school dream is getting pretty close to being dead. I’m not exactly sure what else I’d be doing were I not in law school right now, but I’m worried that I’m ultimately going to look back on the decision to go to law school (or at least the decision to transfer) as being the worst decision that I ever made in my life.


P.S. because I KNOW someone will bring this up. Last year all but 1 or 2 transfers at my school landed BigLaw, so don’t say that it was unrealistic to transfer to CCN this year expecting NLJ 250 or a good clerkship/government position… Transfers this year really had no way of knowing.

I'm one of the other CCNers posting in this thread. I won't drop out (don't think I haven't considered it) but I'm just not sure what to do now. Nobody in the school seems to have any idea what life is like for a CCN person who doesn't have the ability to get biglaw or doesn't have a demonstrated commitment to public interest. It's like we're a new breed.

I'm sure there is some way we could get jobs and advance up the ladder in time, accepting right now that we won't be making a ton of money out of law school (yes, 160K is a ton of money for a 25-27 year old where I'm from). And maybe 10-15 years from now we'll look back and realize law school really wasn't a bad long term investment after all, though in the short term it might not give us the returns we'd hoped for.

I know it will be hard those first few years out of law school. But nobody at my school is coming out and telling us how we can regroup, come back, and still have a great life in 5, 10, 15 years, and that's really the scariest part of this whole thing. It's like we have to spend two years worrying about it, instead of two years planning our long term career path. Instead, most of the "alternative career paths." academia, AUSA, are geared to people who already have biglaw as a fallback. They need to go out and find people who never had that option, then invite them back and tell us how they got where they did.

Not to be a dick, but why not start demonstrating an interest in PI work now? I'm sure there's plenty of clinics and whatnot in your area that could use you... Anything's a start right?

Trust me, I've been doing that for about a year. But I'm finding the public interest job market may be even more screwed than NYC biglaw. And by the time I get sufficient experience on there to convince people I'm serious, it may be too late. And I kind of feel bad, not to mention intimidated, trying to snag the same jobs as people who have spent significant time before law school in their fields.

I see. Well good luck... I'm a 1L just about to start the job hunt... I really do hope for the best for everyone on here.

[badfish]

ITT: The anonymous feature function is abused so much, it makes me wonder just how psychotic TLS posters really are.