What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

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What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:13 pm

Why do people consider a joint JD/MBA, which can spill over 4 years at additional tuition and living expenses? Is it worth it in the long run?

Voyager
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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby Voyager » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:09 pm

It gives you a second set of excellent career paths to choose from. The problem is, law firms will not value the MBA and IBanks, consulting firms, etc... won't give a shit about the JD.

So, in that sense, it is a waste of money.

Sounds to me like you should get and MBA. Just make sure it is a top 7 or so school.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:19 pm

Which degree offers more in the long run, in terms of career advancement and salary potential?

bdubs
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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby bdubs » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:23 pm

Depends on which T14 and why you want to get a JD/MBA.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby HITeacher2 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:15 pm

Would you like to go into business? Stuff like consulting, banking, private equity, hedge funds, management, manufacturing, entrepreneurship? Get an MBA.

Would you like to go into law? Stuff like being a lawyer, being a judge, being an district attorney? Get a JD.

Would you like to be a partner at a law firm? Would you like to do tax law? Would you like to go into politics? Certain JD/MBAs can help.

A few Harvard JD/MBA alums I know have said that some law firms actually do value the MBA, especially as you move up. Certain private equity firms value the JD. But for the most part the overlap isn't that great.

That said, law school is 3 years. JD/MBA is 4 years. It's just one more year, not too different from taking 4 years to do college and getting a double-major instead of busting through in 3 years with one major.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby Veyron » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:17 pm

My impression is that its a waste of $ if you want to do law but can help compensate for relatively poor W/E or W/E in a different industry for people who want to go into buisness.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:37 pm

HITeacher2 wrote:
Would you like to be a partner at a law firm? Would you like to do tax law? Would you like to go into politics? Certain JD/MBAs can help.


Why does joint JD/MBA help with going into politics?

HITeacher2 wrote:That said, law school is 3 years. JD/MBA is 4 years. It's just one more year, not too different from taking 4 years to do college and getting a double-major instead of busting through in 3 years with one major.


I don't see justification for the extra tuition cost.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby HITeacher2 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:41 pm

Why anonymous?

The skillset you use to be successful in politics is actually the same skillset you use to be successful in business. I can use the analogy of what separates a lawyer who doesn't make partner from one that does and how the MBA helps. Making partner means building a book of business. By getting a good MBA (think HBS, Wharton, Stanford) you're going to meet a few hundred people who are going to be in the position to require legal services for their firms when you're in a position to bring in business for your law firm so you can make partner. Moreover, the MBA teaches you how to make it rain in the first place, which is the skill that so many good lawyers lack. Those are the same skills you use when trying to get elected to office. Knowing how to tap a competent and powerful group of friends who will benefit from helping you, and knowing how to sell yourself.

As for the tuition, you get an extra summer to work for a consulting firm, bank, or biglaw firm that will net you enough money to almost pay off the cost of that fourth year. That summer will help you figure out what you want to do for your career and position you to get a better job later on than if you didn't take that extra year to get the MBA.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby Voyager » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Which degree offers more in the long run, in terms of career advancement and salary potential?


Assuming a top 7 business school? The MBA.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby vamedic03 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:08 am

Voyager wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Which degree offers more in the long run, in terms of career advancement and salary potential?


Assuming a top 7 business school? The MBA.


Data please? Arguably, from a T-14 the average grad will have a higher long term salary; however, the outliers will have far higher salaries coming from MBA's.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby HITeacher2 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:59 am

Here's some data on the MBA side if you'd like: http://finance.yahoo.com/college-educat ... _education

I don't know if this data even exists for law school grads.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby Black-Blue » Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:11 am

HITeacher2 wrote:Here's some data on the MBA side if you'd like: http://finance.yahoo.com/college-educat ... _education

I don't know if this data even exists for law school grads.

Equivalent data probably doesn't exist. Lawyers don't last as long in the field as business people do.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby vamedic03 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:23 pm

Black-Blue wrote:
HITeacher2 wrote:Here's some data on the MBA side if you'd like: http://finance.yahoo.com/college-educat ... _education

I don't know if this data even exists for law school grads.

Equivalent data probably doesn't exist. Lawyers don't last as long in the field as business people do.


Really?

Consider some real data that I found:

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/files/manus ... wanson.pdf

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby bdubs » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:32 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
Black-Blue wrote:
HITeacher2 wrote:Here's some data on the MBA side if you'd like: http://finance.yahoo.com/college-educat ... _education

I don't know if this data even exists for law school grads.

Equivalent data probably doesn't exist. Lawyers don't last as long in the field as business people do.


Really?

Consider some real data that I found:

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/files/manus ... wanson.pdf



This is why people on this board are delusional about the benefits of an MBA. A law degree from a top school is (was) a much more likely road to high pay than an MBA is.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby HITeacher2 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:00 pm

bdubs wrote: This is why people on this board are delusional about the benefits of an MBA. A law degree from a top school is (was) a much more likely road to high pay than an MBA is.


Wait, what?

The Berkeley study states that the median household income for the lawyer 20-years down is $250k while the median cash compensation for just the MBA is $200k. Unless every single JD has a trophy wife/husband, that household income is what the couple makes with all compensation combined. The MBA just accounts for that single person's CASH compensation, not including the equity with which MBAs are typically compensated later in their careers.

Granted, MBAs don't make buckets of money more than law students, but there's no clear evidence to suggest that law results in higher pay.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby bdubs » Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:08 pm

HITeacher2 wrote:
bdubs wrote: This is why people on this board are delusional about the benefits of an MBA. A law degree from a top school is (was) a much more likely road to high pay than an MBA is.


Wait, what?

The Berkeley study states that the median household income for the lawyer 20-years down is $250k while the median cash compensation for just the MBA is $200k. Unless every single JD has a trophy wife/husband, that household income is what the couple makes with all compensation combined. The MBA just accounts for that single person's CASH compensation, not including the equity with which MBAs are typically compensated later in their careers.

Granted, MBAs don't make buckets of money more than law students, but there's no clear evidence to suggest that law results in higher pay.


Look at table 5, the average compensation for those who remain in large law firms was ~$500k/yr while smaller firms are more around the $250k that you mention. Those who go into government or public interest are dragging down the mean, which is probably a much larger portion than those who do similar work coming out of a top 5 business school. Also the average compensation for a newly minted JD is higher than that for a newly minted MBA (160k vs 120k salary, total comp is probably a bit closer but there is more bonus risk for an MBA).

My point was that most people on this board tend to think that a top MBA is a road to riches because it is beyond their grasp. The salary distribution for MBA grads is much much wider than that for a JD. If you wanted a more secure route to an upper middle class income 20 years ago, law school was a much safer bet than an MBA.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby HarlandBassett » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:29 pm

HITeacher2 wrote:Would you like to be a partner at a law firm? Would you like to do tax law? Would you like to go into politics? Certain JD/MBAs can help.

On the whole, JD/MBA are just another way for schools to collect more tuition money.

For tax law, it is far better to have a NYU JD/LLM in tax than a top14 JD/MBA.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby Voyager » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:29 pm

lol. are you people kidding me? on the first day of my corporations class the professor told us we "made the wrong decision if we wanted riches" and "the place for that is a top business school."

T-14 law schools? jesus. T-14 means zero at this point. When only the top 1/3 of Michigan is getting big law, how the hell are you going to say law school gives you a better chance at lots of money than a top business school.

Nonsense.

MBAs from the top 5 or 7 programs will make much more than the biglaw kids.

Never mind the fact that MBA programs are currently having a much easier time with employers. Hiring has picked up.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby NBPPIsnotforme » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:43 pm

Voyager wrote:lol. are you people kidding me?
T-14 means zero at this point. When only the top 1/3 of Michigan is getting big law, how the hell are you going to say law school gives you a better chance at lots of money than a top business school.

Nonsense.



This.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby ntugwater » Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:03 pm

it scares me that people may one day rely on some of your advice

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby Voyager » Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:21 pm

HarlandBassett wrote:
HITeacher2 wrote:Would you like to be a partner at a law firm? Would you like to do tax law? Would you like to go into politics? Certain JD/MBAs can help.

On the whole, JD/MBA are just another way for schools to collect more tuition money.

For tax law, it is far better to have a NYU JD/LLM in tax than a top14 JD/MBA.

Exactly.

JD/MBA is fine if you want as many options as possible or if you just really enjoy having extra degrees, but it is better to either pick law or business and then go with that choice.

Again, though, anyone who thinks you will, on average, make more money with a "t-14" JD in this economy than a T-7 business degree is delusional.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby magicman554 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:25 pm

A JD/MBA can also be helpful if you work at a large corporation. You might start out in the legal department, make general counsel, and then work your way up the ladder to CEO. I've seen that happen quite a bit.

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby Voyager » Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:27 pm

magicman554 wrote:A JD/MBA can also be helpful if you work at a large corporation. You might start out in the legal department, make general counsel, and then work your way up the ladder to CEO. I've seen that happen quite a bit.


You've personally seen a bunch of people become a CEO, let alone a bunch of general counsels?

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:30 pm

Voyager wrote:
magicman554 wrote:A JD/MBA can also be helpful if you work at a large corporation. You might start out in the legal department, make general counsel, and then work your way up the ladder to CEO. I've seen that happen quite a bit.


You've personally seen a bunch of people become a CEO, let alone a bunch of general counsels?


lol

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Re: What are the benefits of a joint JD/MBA at T14?

Postby vamedic03 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:40 pm

Voyager wrote:
HarlandBassett wrote:
HITeacher2 wrote:Would you like to be a partner at a law firm? Would you like to do tax law? Would you like to go into politics? Certain JD/MBAs can help.

On the whole, JD/MBA are just another way for schools to collect more tuition money.

For tax law, it is far better to have a NYU JD/LLM in tax than a top14 JD/MBA.

Exactly.

JD/MBA is fine if you want as many options as possible or if you just really enjoy having extra degrees, but it is better to either pick law or business and then go with that choice.

Again, though, anyone who thinks you will, on average, make more money with a "t-14" JD in this economy than a T-7 business degree is delusional.


FWIW the study I found above looked at people who graduated in 1990 - right around a major legal downturn.




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