Something I never understood about legal employment

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jblev1
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Something I never understood about legal employment

Postby jblev1 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:41 pm

Everyone says you need to attend the best school ever, and we all know Patent Law probably pays the best right out of law school. or some variation of corporate law. But doesn't the experience you have in a certain field and your success in it lead to better jobs, more than the 150k right out of law school jobs. As in, someone who was a lowly 50k a year nobody for a mid sized regional firm that had years of success in any field of law, would they not be more qualified to get a 150k job than someone right out of law school with little to no experience? Or better still, someone from a great university with years of ho hum experience versus a regional law school grad who has worked with huge cases?

LurkerNoMore
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Re: Something I never understood about legal employment

Postby LurkerNoMore » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:12 pm

How do you get your first job?
What type of work does your first job expose you to?
What do clients pay for the type of work you do?

That is the reason where you go to law school matters. It opens up the first door. It is also always on your resume, and in a field that is overpopulated, recruiters look for short cuts to cull through the pile.

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nealric
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Re: Something I never understood about legal employment

Postby nealric » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:36 pm

Everyone says you need to attend the best school ever, and we all know Patent Law probably pays the best right out of law school. or some variation of corporate law.


Large law firms in major markets pay 160k to start for every specialty.

As in, someone who was a lowly 50k a year nobody for a mid sized regional firm that had years of success in any field of law, would they not be more qualified to get a 150k job than someone right out of law school with little to no experience?


Yes and no. Entry level jobs in "mid sized regional firms" are in many cases even harder to find than those in large law firms. Even so, working in a small firm wouldn't necessarily make you more qualified than someone fresh out of law school because you wouldn't necessarily get relevant experience. For example, doing small-time corporate formations in no way prepares you to do work on billion dollar M&A deals. It is possible to get experience relevant to a large firm at a smaller firm, it's just not all that common.

Black-Blue
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Re: Something I never understood about legal employment

Postby Black-Blue » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:36 pm

One of the central principles of the biglaw model is to only recruit fresh graduates because experience lawyers have taken on "bad habits."

MrAnon
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Re: Something I never understood about legal employment

Postby MrAnon » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:22 pm

jblev1 wrote:Everyone says you need to attend the best school ever, and we all know Patent Law probably pays the best right out of law school. or some variation of corporate law. But doesn't the experience you have in a certain field and your success in it lead to better jobs, more than the 150k right out of law school jobs. As in, someone who was a lowly 50k a year nobody for a mid sized regional firm that had years of success in any field of law, would they not be more qualified to get a 150k job than someone right out of law school with little to no experience? Or better still, someone from a great university with years of ho hum experience versus a regional law school grad who has worked with huge cases?



The guy who has been in law for years and has been successful gains much of that success through repetition and maturation and gaining knowledge as he goes along. He problems with his college GPA, LSAT, on law school grades that landed him in a 50K starting job show that he cannot handle certain basic measuring tasks at a younger age as deftly as the biglaw-fresh-out-of-law-school type can. Both had, say, 5 months to learn contracts and take an exam, and the smarter guy won out. He'll also be quicker and better at learning unfamiliar tasks in biglaw, and while it isn't the best mind exercise anyone can ever experience, in 5 years he'll be able to do what the other guy took 7 to master.

Renzo
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Re: Something I never understood about legal employment

Postby Renzo » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:24 pm

Oh, man. This thread gives me a headache.

Big firms hire three kinds of people. 1) people who can bring in business 2) less experienced attorneys who they believe will turn into people who can bring in business and 3) slaves who grind out hours and make the firm profitable.

New grad lawyers are category three. After a few years, they'll know whether or not you are category two, and since most aren't, they'll fire most. And, if they passed you over when hiring for category three, they aren't coming back to hire you for category two.

That leaves one chance at getting into a big firm as an "experienced" attorney: being in category one.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Something I never understood about legal employment

Postby Aqualibrium » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:29 pm

Renzo wrote:Oh, man. This thread gives me a headache.

Big firms hire three kinds of people. 1) people who can bring in business 2) less experienced attorneys who they believe will turn into people who can bring in business and 3) slaves who grind out hours and make the firm profitable.

New grad lawyers are category three. After a few years, they'll know whether or not you are category two, and since most aren't, they'll fire most. And, if they passed you over when hiring for category three, they aren't coming back to hire you for category two.

That leaves one chance at getting into a big firm as an "experienced" attorney: being in category one.


Category 4: Doc Review Monkey. You can get into the basement of big law firms if you are in this category.

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iagolives
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Re: Something I never understood about legal employment

Postby iagolives » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:31 pm

Renzo wrote:Oh, man. This thread gives me a headache.

Big firms hire three kinds of people. 1) people who can bring in business 2) less experienced attorneys who they believe will turn into people who can bring in business and 3) slaves who grind out hours and make the firm profitable.

New grad lawyers are category three. After a few years, they'll know whether or not you are category two, and since most aren't, they'll fire most. And, if they passed you over when hiring for category three, they aren't coming back to hire you for category two.

That leaves one chance at getting into a big firm as an "experienced" attorney: being in category one.


Well-stated, Renzo.

Renzo
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Re: Something I never understood about legal employment

Postby Renzo » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:34 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:
Renzo wrote:Oh, man. This thread gives me a headache.

Big firms hire three kinds of people. 1) people who can bring in business 2) less experienced attorneys who they believe will turn into people who can bring in business and 3) slaves who grind out hours and make the firm profitable.

New grad lawyers are category three. After a few years, they'll know whether or not you are category two, and since most aren't, they'll fire most. And, if they passed you over when hiring for category three, they aren't coming back to hire you for category two.

That leaves one chance at getting into a big firm as an "experienced" attorney: being in category one.


Category 4: Doc Review Monkey. You can get into the basement of big law firms if you are in this category.

True. I suppose category 5 would be arranging a tour. But if you want a desk with your name on it, it's 1 through 3.

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iagolives
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Re: Something I never understood about legal employment

Postby iagolives » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:41 pm

Renzo wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:
Renzo wrote:Oh, man. This thread gives me a headache.

Big firms hire three kinds of people. 1) people who can bring in business 2) less experienced attorneys who they believe will turn into people who can bring in business and 3) slaves who grind out hours and make the firm profitable.

New grad lawyers are category three. After a few years, they'll know whether or not you are category two, and since most aren't, they'll fire most. And, if they passed you over when hiring for category three, they aren't coming back to hire you for category two.

That leaves one chance at getting into a big firm as an "experienced" attorney: being in category one.


Category 4: Doc Review Monkey. You can get into the basement of big law firms if you are in this category.

True. I suppose category 5 would be arranging a tour. But if you want a desk with your name on it, it's 1 through 3.


Hahaha, one of those double-decker bus tours but of NYC law firms would be the most boring thing imaginable. But hey, if they existed and someone wanted to pay off my loans for me, I might consider it. Always wanted to do one of those things, anyway.

Renzo
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Re: Something I never understood about legal employment

Postby Renzo » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:00 am

iagolives wrote:
Renzo wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:
Renzo wrote:Oh, man. This thread gives me a headache.

Big firms hire three kinds of people. 1) people who can bring in business 2) less experienced attorneys who they believe will turn into people who can bring in business and 3) slaves who grind out hours and make the firm profitable.

New grad lawyers are category three. After a few years, they'll know whether or not you are category two, and since most aren't, they'll fire most. And, if they passed you over when hiring for category three, they aren't coming back to hire you for category two.

That leaves one chance at getting into a big firm as an "experienced" attorney: being in category one.


Category 4: Doc Review Monkey. You can get into the basement of big law firms if you are in this category.

True. I suppose category 5 would be arranging a tour. But if you want a desk with your name on it, it's 1 through 3.


Hahaha, one of those double-decker bus tours but of NYC law firms would be the most boring thing imaginable. But hey, if they existed and someone wanted to pay off my loans for me, I might consider it. Always wanted to do one of those things, anyway.

Man have I got a business model for you! Angry protest tours of financial institutions!

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iagolives
Posts: 687
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Something I never understood about legal employment

Postby iagolives » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:09 am

Renzo wrote:Man have I got a business model for you! Angry protest tours of financial institutions!


PERFECT countercyclical business: the worse the economy gets, the angrier people will get and more protest tours we can schedule!

Man, some day, business schools will offer courses in our brilliance, haha.




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