Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
D. H2Oman
Posts: 7469
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:47 am

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby D. H2Oman » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:05 pm

gwlaw2012 wrote:Try to get some empthay and understanding of humanism before you go to law school.



What's the point law school will just beat that out of you. And don't worry I seriously doubt that Apimpnamedslickback dude will ever get into anything resembling a legitimate law school.

User avatar
AreJay711
Posts: 3406
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:51 pm

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby AreJay711 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:07 pm

gwlaw2012 wrote:
APimpNamedSlickback wrote:i still don't understand why people felt the need to write these long-winded self-righteous screeds about the per capita income of bangladesh. like, holy shit, if am willing to work harder to make more money, and someone else would rather have a less stressful life with less money, i don't see an issue. if 80k makes you happy, fantastic! if that number is 8 million, also great! why the fuck do we care this much about others' subjective perceptions of an optimal lifestyle?

to. each. his (or her). own.



If you think just about anyone in Bangladesh wouldn't LOVE to go to school and work as a lawyer making $160k and that YOU are somehow working harder in life, you just don't get it.

Try to get some empthay and understanding of humanism before you go to law school.


You are right we should all sacrifice our views of the good life so we don't live better than the unfortunate people of Bangladesh and offend your bleeding-heart sensibilities. My view is live it up if you are able and, if not, do the best you can. Why should anyone feel it necessary to bend their views to your notion of good taste?

A&O
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:08 am

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby A&O » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:10 pm

If you want to lease a BMW and go money-crazy in NYC on $160,000, you can do that too. Just opt for a longer loan repayment program.

Of course, it would make stupid financial sense to do that. But hey, if you want to live up to your "good taste," then go ahead and do it.

I'm surprised people think living rich in a place like Houston is "good taste." It's even more ironic that Southern cities like Houston try to emulate New York City rich constantly. If there's anything worse than a New Yorker, it's people who desperately try to act like New Yorkers.

rundoxierun
Posts: 1893
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:46 am

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby rundoxierun » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:18 pm

The most shocking thing ITT is how much people overestimate the price of living in NYC(Besides the ridiculous taxes). If you want to live in lower Manhattan then yeah it is expensive. But if you cant afford to live there then you dont. There is a trendy area in Memphis, TN where they have 2,000 sq ft. houses for 600k. The exact same house could be found elsewhere for about 250k. You know what I do, I dont live there b/c I cant afford it. There are plenty of multimillion dollar houses in Chicago that would cost one-fifth of the price elsewhere in the city.. Cant afford it then dont live there.

What Im trying to say is, there are plenty of nice places in NYC that cost 1/2 the price of Lower Manhattan. If you cant AFFORD to live in Lower Manhattan then DONT live there. It is NOT a right or necessity to live in Lower Manhattan just like it isnt in any other city. Its not like the only people allowed to shop/eat/visit in Lower Manhattan are the people who live there. You could live a few subway stops and a transfer away and be just fine in NYC.

A&O
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:08 am

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby A&O » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:23 pm

The most shocking thing ITT is how much people overestimate the price of living in NYC(Besides the ridiculous taxes). If you want to live in lower Manhattan then yeah it is expensive. But if you cant afford to live there then you dont.


Exactly.

And if you desperately want to live in lower Manhattan, the Financial District is cheap. If you want to pay a little more and be a little trendier, the Lower East Side and East Village are available. The most expensive lower Manhattan areas are West Village, Greenwich Village, Chelsea, Tribeca, Nolita, and SoHo. They're not any more "luxurious" than a place in the Upper West Side, but they're more expensive because the areas are just very trendy areas.

I'm thinking of moving into this glorious new development high-rise near Morningside Park. Prices are reasonable, commute is reasonable, and the place is like a luxury condo.

User avatar
AreJay711
Posts: 3406
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:51 pm

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby AreJay711 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:26 pm

A&O wrote:If you want to lease a BMW and go money-crazy in NYC on $160,000, you can do that too. Just opt for a longer loan repayment program.

Of course, it would make stupid financial sense to do that. But hey, if you want to live up to your "good taste," then go ahead and do it.

I'm surprised people think living rich in a place like Houston is "good taste." It's even more ironic that Southern cities like Houston try to emulate New York City rich constantly. If there's anything worse than a New Yorker, it's people who desperately try to act like New Yorkers.

I certainly never said it was good taste but that is what people are getting on each other about here: their views about how much money would make them happy. I've been dirt poor in college and my family has been pretty well off for the last 15 years (not so much when I was young) and in my experience it doesn't really matter than much as long as you aren't worried about paying the bills but that might not be true for everyone.

gwlaw2012
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:58 pm

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby gwlaw2012 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:28 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
gwlaw2012 wrote:
APimpNamedSlickback wrote:i still don't understand why people felt the need to write these long-winded self-righteous screeds about the per capita income of bangladesh. like, holy shit, if am willing to work harder to make more money, and someone else would rather have a less stressful life with less money, i don't see an issue. if 80k makes you happy, fantastic! if that number is 8 million, also great! why the fuck do we care this much about others' subjective perceptions of an optimal lifestyle?

to. each. his (or her). own.



If you think just about anyone in Bangladesh wouldn't LOVE to go to school and work as a lawyer making $160k and that YOU are somehow working harder in life, you just don't get it.

Try to get some empthay and understanding of humanism before you go to law school.


You are right we should all sacrifice our views of the good life so we don't live better than the unfortunate people of Bangladesh and offend your bleeding-heart sensibilities. My view is live it up if you are able and, if not, do the best you can. Why should anyone feel it necessary to bend their views to your notion of good taste?



Have whatever lifestyle you want. The point I made was don't think for one second that being a high-priced lawyer is somehow working harder in life than a person in Bangladesh or that they wouldn't choose to have all of these privledges and opportunities (points that poster tried to make).

A&O
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:08 am

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby A&O » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:35 pm

I've been dirt poor in college and my family has been pretty well off for the last 15 years (not so much when I was young) and in my experience it doesn't really matter than much as long as you aren't worried about paying the bills but that might not be true for everyone.


Yeah, of course it's subjective and people have different standards and such. In the grand scheme of things, I think biglaw lawyers are pretty rich. They might not be as rich as the ibankers they have to report to or the general counsel they receive work from, but in the grand scheme of the American populace, biglaw attorneys are rich in my opinion. Even in this economy, the job security, pay, and benefits are matched or exceed only by a handful of other professions, and they're usually even more difficult to get into.

User avatar
BruceWayne
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:50 pm

A&O wrote:I'm just seeing this other silly post from BruceWayne:

Again, if you don't think law school/working at a big firm is a good way to substantially improve your income, you've been living in NYC for way too long.


Nope. If you wanted the highest probability of improving your income significantly, you chose the wrong profession altogether. I stick by this claim. You seem to use enough xoxo lingo, so you should know this too: If you want money, law is not the field. I'm sorry the economic crisis hasn't taught this to you. Many of my fellow law students would be happy to tell you the same thing.

The fact that there right really let's you know how unbelievably expensive New York is--you're practically paying to breath when you live there.


Now you're just exaggerating. First, living in NYC is not so vastly financially different from living in other markets. The picture you paint is cute, but inaccurate. Second, law students shouldn't be expecting models & bottles in any market out of a top law school, even when in big law.

Does law school make financial sense? Maybe. It depends on a person's circumstances. It still makes financial sense to do BigLaw in NYC with the loans and the taxes. All I'm saying is, don't expect models & bottles.

You seem to want models & bottles. Hate to break to you, but that ain't happening in either Houston or Atlanta. Well, you might find some plus-sized models in Houston if you're into that sort of thing.


LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! You clearly have never ever been to Atlanta if you think a starting salary of 160K won't get a young single Black guy plenty of hot women! You've officially outed yourself as a Northeastern WASP with this post!!! But honestly, even for female ethnic groups with a higher average income than Blacks and latinos, 160K in Houston/Atlanta etc. is still more than enough to pull "models and bottles" as you say. I'm not sure why you brought up models and bottles though.


As far as exaggerating the COL difference between NYC and other major cities I'll let the facts speak for themselves. Frankly not only are you wrong about the differences not being that major, you're even more wrong than I thought you were. Apparently, even DC is drastically cheaper than NYC. Atlanta is 118% less expensive than NYC. 160K in Atlanta equals 350K in NYC. Houston is 128 percent less expensive than NYC--160K in Houston=365K in NYC.

http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/sav ... lator.aspx
http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/sav ... lator.aspx
http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/sav ... lator.aspx
http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/sav ... lator.aspx
http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/sav ... lator.aspx
http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/sav ... lator.aspx


As far as law being the wrong profession to substantially riase your income, you clearly went to elite undergrad or have some sort of connections. Outside of medicine, law is the only field where someone from a modest background who went to an average school can work hard and quickly have access to a six figure salary. These ibanking, consulting, private equity etc. positions that you are probably considering a better avenue to high salaries are essentially cut off to those who didn't figure out at 18 that they needed to go to Yale. Top MBA programs and these elite financial companies won't accept someone who hasn't had elite WE; which generally requires that you were hired straight out of undergrad--which means you needed to go to an elite school to be recruited.
Last edited by BruceWayne on Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

A&O
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:08 am

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby A&O » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:59 pm

First, even according to that income calculator, you're not "paying to breathe" in NYC, as you so eloquently and graphically wrote in your original post.

Second, the "models and bottles" comment was primarily humorous in purpose, but I was referring more to the lifestyle. Atlanta and Houston, as suburb-oriented cities, don't really lend themselves to the "models and bottles" lifestyle: Clubbing, dating models, getting bottle service every night, hanging with celebrities. Those cities tend to be NYC, Los Angeles, Miami, Las Vegas, etc. Even if biglaw attorneys did make that kind of money, models and bottles would be impossible simply because of the work demands of a big law lawyer.

Third, regarding your actual calculator, those are based on averages and educated estimates. Since I've lived in both markets, and since I had big firm offers from both markets, I actually did the math. There wasn't a huge difference. NYC is certainly more expensive, but not to the level you're painting.

Try actually living here before commenting on how much it actually costs to live here. It's one thing to do the math in the abstract, it's another thing to be street-smart and to have lived in both places, and hence have intimate knowledge of what it takes to live in different cities. I hope you understand the difference.

User avatar
BruceWayne
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:03 pm

A&O wrote:First, even according to that income calculator, you're not "paying to breathe" in NYC, as you so eloquently and graphically wrote in your original post.

Second, the "models and bottles" comment was primarily humorous in purpose, but I was referring more to the lifestyle. Atlanta and Houston, as suburb-oriented cities, don't really lend themselves to the "models and bottles" lifestyle: Clubbing, dating models, getting bottle service every night, hanging with celebrities. Those cities tend to be NYC, Los Angeles, Miami, Las Vegas, etc. Even if biglaw attorneys did make that kind of money, models and bottles would be impossible simply because of the work demands of a big law lawyer.

Third, regarding your actual calculator, those are based on averages and educated estimates. Since I've lived in both markets, and since I had big firm offers from both markets, I actually did the math. There wasn't a huge difference. NYC is certainly more expensive, but not to the level you're painting.

Try actually living here before commenting on how much it actually costs to live here. It's one thing to do the math in the abstract, it's another thing to be street-smart and to have lived in both places, and hence have intimate knowledge of what it takes to live in different cities. I hope you understand the difference.


OMG man we're getting off topic but really? Atlanta doesn't lend itself to the models and bottles lifestyle? I know that you are probably not familiar with the hip hop culture and video models, but Atlanta is THE CAPITAL of the country for video models. Atlanta and Houston are loaded with clubs! There are a ton of entertainment/music celebrities that frequent Atlanta in particular. The city is loaded with sexy ethnic video models. And you yourself mentioned LA--which is 57 percent cheaper than NYC.

It's funny that you mention the hours nullifying the ability to have fun--you're right--at least in NYC. Firms in other markets work you hard but not with as many hours as NYC does. Hey it's the city that never sleeps right?!

A&O
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:08 am

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby A&O » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:06 pm

Outside of medicine, law is the only field where someone from a modest background who went to an average school can work hard and quickly have access to a six figure salary. These ibanking, consulting, private equity etc. positions that you are probably considering a better avenue to high salaries are essentially cut off to those who didn't figure out at 18 that they needed to go to Yale. Top MBA programs and these elite financial companies won't accept someone who hasn't had elite WE; which generally requires that you were hired straight out of undergrad--which means you needed to go to an elite school to be recruited.


This is incorrect. There are plenty of lucrative professions outside if biglaw that are available to state school graduates: engineering, information technology, dentistry, psychiatry, and (as you mentioned) medicine. Consulting and investment banking opportunities are available at (though harder to obtain from) state universities as well. One of my closest friends, who attended UT-Austin, just nabbed a position at Goldman Sachs in NYC. Not bad at all.

If you're a liberal arts major from a state school, yes, law is pretty much one of your only options for the possibility of making a huge sum of money. But, as I've been trying to state repeatedly in this thread, going to law school for just this reason is terrible. I know too many dissatisfied big firm attorneys, both in NYC and in secondary markets, who hate their lives because they went for that reason.

And keep in mind, I said that it's their only option for the possibility of making a huge sum of money. One shouldn't expect a big firm job. You will suffer through this yourself when you eventually interview, and you end up offer-less because no one can stand your personality. In the boom years, you might have survived, though.

A&O
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:08 am

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby A&O » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:09 pm

Firms in other markets work you hard but not with as many hours as NYC does. Hey it's the city that never sleeps right?!


Even if you're billing 2,000 or so hours at your plush secondary market firm, you're still working something like 2,500 hours. That's still 52 hours a week (10 hours a day if you try to do it all in 5-day weeks, or 8.5 hours a day if you work on Saturdays).

But then again, you're a 1L. I would expect you to think that working at a big firm in Houston is the equivalent of working at a lifestyle firm. I eagerly await the day a firm, if any, bursts your happy little bubble.

User avatar
BruceWayne
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:15 pm

A&O wrote:
Outside of medicine, law is the only field where someone from a modest background who went to an average school can work hard and quickly have access to a six figure salary. These ibanking, consulting, private equity etc. positions that you are probably considering a better avenue to high salaries are essentially cut off to those who didn't figure out at 18 that they needed to go to Yale. Top MBA programs and these elite financial companies won't accept someone who hasn't had elite WE; which generally requires that you were hired straight out of undergrad--which means you needed to go to an elite school to be recruited.


This is incorrect. There are plenty of lucrative professions outside if biglaw that are available to state school graduates: engineering, information technology, dentistry, psychiatry, and (as you mentioned) medicine. Consulting and investment banking opportunities are available at (though harder to obtain from) state universities as well. One of my closest friends, who attended UT-Austin, just nabbed a position at Goldman Sachs in NYC. Not bad at all.

If you're a liberal arts major from a state school, yes, law is pretty much one of your only options for the possibility of making a huge sum of money. But, as I've been trying to state repeatedly in this thread, going to law school for just this reason is terrible. I know too many dissatisfied big firm attorneys, both in NYC and in secondary markets, who hate their lives because they went for that reason.

And keep in mind, I said that it's their only option for the possibility of making a huge sum of money. One shouldn't expect a big firm job. You will suffer through this yourself when you eventually interview, and you end up offer-less because no one can stand your personality. In the boom years, you might have survived, though.


You're talking about UT-Austin like it's an average state school. That's one of the elite public universities; for people attending your average state or private university those jobs aren't happening. Dentistry and psychiatry don't count as they're a form of medicine. Engineering and IT require specialized majors and really don't compare to medicine and law salary wise. Not to mention people are outsourcing IT and engineering jobs like crazy.

Even if you're billing 2,000 or so hours at your plush secondary market firm, you're still working something like 2,500 hours. That's still 52 hours a week (10 hours a day if you try to do it all in 5-day weeks, or 8.5 hours a day if you work on Saturdays).

But then again, you're a 1L. I would expect you to think that working at a big firm in Houston is the equivalent of working at a lifestyle firm. I eagerly await the day a firm, if any, bursts your happy little bubble.


You're going wild with the strawmans here. By the way, what are you a 2L? It's hilarious to me how people in there 2nd year of law school (or even third) start talking like they've been working at a law firm for years and somehow are in another league than a 1L. Then again that's part of the culture of TLS. Anyway I never said that working at a big firm in Houston is the equivalent to being a "lifestyle" firm--why do you like strawmans so much? But in comparison to somewhere like Sullivan or Kirkland NYC (let alone a firm like Cravath) it's a hell of a lot better.
Last edited by BruceWayne on Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

A&O
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:08 am

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby A&O » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:18 pm

You're talking about UT-Austin like it's an average state school. That's one of the elite public universities; for people attending your average state or private university those jobs aren't happening. Dentistry and psychiatry don't count as they're a form of medicine. Engineering and IT require specialized majors and really don't compare to medicine and law salary wise. Not to mention people are outsourcing IT and engineering jobs like crazy.


It might be an elite state school, but it's not terribly difficult to get into, at all.

You seem to be advocating for the following (and correct me if I'm wrong): liberal arts majors from average state schools who want to make money should go to law school.

Pardon my French:

That's dumb.

A&O
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:08 am

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby A&O » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:20 pm

You're going wild with the strawmans here. By the way, what are you a 2L? Anyway I never said that working at a big firm in Houston is the equivalent to being a "lifestyle" firm--why do you like strawmans so much? But in comparison to somewhere like Sullivan or Kirkland NYC (let alone a firm like Cravath) it's a hell of a lot better.


I never said Cravath, Kirkland, or Sullivan were better in terms of hours. You seemed to imply that you can somehow have time for life outside of biglaw like at a big firm in Houston. That's incorrect. Biglaw hours are bad anywhere, they're just worse in a place like NYC.

PS: I'm a 3L.

User avatar
AreJay711
Posts: 3406
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:51 pm

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby AreJay711 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:27 pm

A&O wrote:
You're going wild with the strawmans here. By the way, what are you a 2L? Anyway I never said that working at a big firm in Houston is the equivalent to being a "lifestyle" firm--why do you like strawmans so much? But in comparison to somewhere like Sullivan or Kirkland NYC (let alone a firm like Cravath) it's a hell of a lot better.


I never said Cravath, Kirkland, or Sullivan were better in terms of hours. You seemed to imply that you can somehow have time for life outside of biglaw like at a big firm in Houston. That's incorrect. Biglaw hours are bad anywhere, they're just worse in a place like NYC.

PS: I'm a 3L.

Shoot, 9 hours a day for 6 days a week might not leave a lot of free time but it is far from soul crushing and it is actually pretty good for the type of money lawyers make.

wildcathighfive
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:11 pm

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby wildcathighfive » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:40 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
A&O wrote:
Outside of medicine, law is the only field where someone from a modest background who went to an average school can work hard and quickly have access to a six figure salary. These ibanking, consulting, private equity etc. positions that you are probably considering a better avenue to high salaries are essentially cut off to those who didn't figure out at 18 that they needed to go to Yale. Top MBA programs and these elite financial companies won't accept someone who hasn't had elite WE; which generally requires that you were hired straight out of undergrad--which means you needed to go to an elite school to be recruited.


This is incorrect. There are plenty of lucrative professions outside if biglaw that are available to state school graduates: engineering, information technology, dentistry, psychiatry, and (as you mentioned) medicine. Consulting and investment banking opportunities are available at (though harder to obtain from) state universities as well. One of my closest friends, who attended UT-Austin, just nabbed a position at Goldman Sachs in NYC. Not bad at all.

If you're a liberal arts major from a state school, yes, law is pretty much one of your only options for the possibility of making a huge sum of money. But, as I've been trying to state repeatedly in this thread, going to law school for just this reason is terrible. I know too many dissatisfied big firm attorneys, both in NYC and in secondary markets, who hate their lives because they went for that reason.

And keep in mind, I said that it's their only option for the possibility of making a huge sum of money. One shouldn't expect a big firm job. You will suffer through this yourself when you eventually interview, and you end up offer-less because no one can stand your personality. In the boom years, you might have survived, though.


You're talking about UT-Austin like it's an average state school. That's one of the elite public universities; for people attending your average state or private university those jobs aren't happening. Dentistry and psychiatry don't count as they're a form of medicine. Engineering and IT require specialized majors and really don't compare to medicine and law salary wise. Not to mention people are outsourcing IT and engineering jobs like crazy.

Even if you're billing 2,000 or so hours at your plush secondary market firm, you're still working something like 2,500 hours. That's still 52 hours a week (10 hours a day if you try to do it all in 5-day weeks, or 8.5 hours a day if you work on Saturdays).

But then again, you're a 1L. I would expect you to think that working at a big firm in Houston is the equivalent of working at a lifestyle firm. I eagerly await the day a firm, if any, bursts your happy little bubble.


You're going wild with the strawmans here. By the way, what are you a 2L? It's hilarious to me how people in there 2nd year of law school (or even third) start talking like they've been working at a law firm for years and somehow are in another league than a 1L. Then again that's part of the culture of TLS. Anyway I never said that working at a big firm in Houston is the equivalent to being a "lifestyle" firm--why do you like strawmans so much? But in comparison to somewhere like Sullivan or Kirkland NYC (let alone a firm like Cravath) it's a hell of a lot better.



funny distinction---kirkland chicago's hours are def worse than ny

APimpNamedSlickback
Posts: 1126
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:33 am

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:25 pm

x
Last edited by APimpNamedSlickback on Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:43 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
A&O wrote:
Why the hell would you work your ass off at a top law school to end up working 70+ hours a week so that you can live "comfortably"?


This is a weird sense of entitlement. If you want models and bottles, you chose the wrong profession (and you're targeting the wrong market too).


Either you have a fundamental misunderstanding of "entitlement" or you've been living in NYC for too long. Outside of certain parts of California there is nowhere else in the country where you would be making that much money and working that much--yet taking home such a small percentage. You're essentially paying to say that you are living in NYC when you choose to live there. Ask your average blue collar American if they would choose to have a salary of 160K drop all the way to 40K just so they could say they're "cool" and live in NYC. I know you don't realize this but most people work their entire lives to make 160K, ask them how they feel about losing 80 percent of that just so they can say they live in NYC.

Oh... I don't know... to be a lawyer????

Again, if you went into law school expecting to substantially improve your income, you did the math wrong.

And I agree, I think $160,000 in NYC, even after taxes and loans, is a huge chunk of change.




Again, if you don't think law school/working at a big firm is a good way to substantially improve your income, you've been living in NYC for way too long. You're out of touch with what a 160K salary should be able to buy you because your idea of what things should cost is based on a NYC cost standard. NYC and California are about the only places in the nation where that kind of salary doesn't substantially improve your income.

I'm beginning to understand why so many people on here think going to law school is a terrible idea for making good money--even when they can go to a school like Yale. It's because many of them are thinking about doing it in the context of working in NYC. The fact that there right really let's you know how unbelievably expensive New York is--you're practically paying to breath when you live there.


I think I should know how expensive it is since i live there. 160,000 a year is plenty of money. I live comfortably on 50,000 salary not to mention that there is at least 70% of residents who make less than 50,000 a year.

rundoxierun
Posts: 1893
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:46 am

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby rundoxierun » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:45 pm

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:
you missed my point. also, you seem dumb.

also, i am already in law school. ok i think i am just going to talk to you like a child. tsk tsk, jumping to conclusions is NOT very lawyerly!


Lol.. TBF, you seem pretty dumb yourself when you say stuff like this.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:58 pm

A&O wrote:
Outside of medicine, law is the only field where someone from a modest background who went to an average school can work hard and quickly have access to a six figure salary. These ibanking, consulting, private equity etc. positions that you are probably considering a better avenue to high salaries are essentially cut off to those who didn't figure out at 18 that they needed to go to Yale. Top MBA programs and these elite financial companies won't accept someone who hasn't had elite WE; which generally requires that you were hired straight out of undergrad--which means you needed to go to an elite school to be recruited.


This is incorrect. There are plenty of lucrative professions outside if biglaw that are available to state school graduates: engineering, information technology, dentistry, psychiatry, and (as you mentioned) medicine. Consulting and investment banking opportunities are available at (though harder to obtain from) state universities as well. One of my closest friends, who attended UT-Austin, just nabbed a position at Goldman Sachs in NYC. Not bad at all.

If you're a liberal arts major from a state school, yes, law is pretty much one of your only options for the possibility of making a huge sum of money. But, as I've been trying to state repeatedly in this thread, going to law school for just this reason is terrible. I know too many dissatisfied big firm attorneys, both in NYC and in secondary markets, who hate their lives because they went for that reason.

And keep in mind, I said that it's their only option for the possibility of making a huge sum of money. One shouldn't expect a big firm job. You will suffer through this yourself when you eventually interview, and you end up offer-less because no one can stand your personality. In the boom years, you might have survived, though.


Banking positions are NOT a ticket to success. With those positions you become slave to sales, and not everyone with a degree in business is made for sales. Actually most people do not posses qualifications needed to be a sales person. Those positions are all about how many clients you have; you need to find your own clients, and continue bringing business to bank to stay successful, and continue to have your job. They are demanding and do not pay as much as big law. Not even close.

As far as your liberal arts degree is concerned: its natural for people to study history, political science etc, because they plan on studying law. Its rare for someone to study biology and go to law school, and not know in details how the government works.

Voyager
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 2:52 pm

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby Voyager » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:04 pm

A&O wrote:
I don't think that is a weird sense of entitlement. Law school is a very large investment of time and money. If you are not substantially improving your income than law school was a poor investment. I feel the same way about working 70 hours a week: if I am not earning a six figure salary, then what the hell am I doing working that much?


Oh... I don't know... to be a lawyer???? You enjoy being an attorney? You enjoy doing legal work?

Again, if you went into law school expecting to substantially improve your income, you did the math wrong.

And I agree, I think $160,000 in NYC, even after taxes and loans, is a huge chunk of change.


No one enjoys doing legal work. And you certainly have no idea if you will as you have not done the job yet. I did go to law school to substantially improve my income and my income has been substantially improved.

If YOU dropped 200K + 3 years of lost wages in order to earn the same amount of money you are an idiot.

A&O
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:08 am

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby A&O » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:15 pm

No one enjoys doing legal work.


Look, voyager:

I respect that you've "seen the light" and think that you're better off for not heading into BigLaw, but please try not to impose what you believe on the rest of the profession.

You're right, I haven't practiced yet, so I can't speak to whether I enjoy law. But I know enough practitioners in the field to know you're wrong, and you should too.

I did go to law school to substantially improve my income and my income has been substantially improved.


So this means that if you go to law school to substantially improve your income, your income should be substantially improved?

I don't think your statement does what you want it to do.

If YOU dropped 200K + 3 years of lost wages in order to earn the same amount of money you are an idiot.


If the person's goal was to earn more money, then yes, that person is probably an idiot. If the person's goal was to do legal work, then no. It's shocking, yet telling, that you view this purely in terms of dollars and cents.

User avatar
20160810
Posts: 19648
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 pm

Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby 20160810 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:47 pm

lolschool2011 wrote:Hear me out Proletariat/Patriot (you deserve that for f-bomb drop).... we've established that 160k post-tax is about 100k/year... lets say 8k/month. Even if I was slightly exaggerating what a "nice" (again, a relative idea) 1br would run in NYC, 8k/month really isn't that much dough.

After a 3k apartment, 1k student loan payment, lets say you enjoy having a car w/insurance, parking, utilities, cable, food, enterainment, dry cleaning, and an attempt to aproximate the semblance of "saving" something per month, etc, etc.... 160k seems, at least to me, just getting by in a city like NYC.

If you consider $160,000 "just getting by," then I honestly don't think law school is for you. I'd instead suggest getting into another field, such as plastic surgery, being DeSean Jackson, or inheritance receipt.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.