Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

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Anonymous User
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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:26 pm

tkgrrett wrote:
Miracle wrote:
AlanShore wrote:what happened to this thread.


I was wondering the same thing.


It was a dumb thread idea from the beginning. Everyone knows there are successful T14 people.. look at partners at any major firm or the entire federal government.


I just spent 2 days arguing with someone claiming all lawyers start of with a salary of 50,000+ no matter what school they graduate from, and that working in a big law is the worst move one can make after graduation because it pays the least.

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JazzOne
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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby JazzOne » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:
Miracle wrote:
AlanShore wrote:what happened to this thread.


I was wondering the same thing.


It was a dumb thread idea from the beginning. Everyone knows there are successful T14 people.. look at partners at any major firm or the entire federal government.


I just spent 2 days arguing with someone claiming all lawyers start of with a salary of 50,000+ no matter what school they graduate from, and that working in a big law is the worst move one can make after graduation because it pays the least.

What kind of moron argued that position?

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2011L1
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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby 2011L1 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:52 pm

TheStrand wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
You can live in a brownstone in Park Slope (where attorneys go to breed) 1500+


You cannot get a decent place in a Park Slope Brownstone for 1500. For an actual Park Slope (not some place in Gowanus or Sunset Park advertised as Park Slope), you are looking at 1800 at least unless you are talking studio. 2000 for North Slope.



I pay 1495 to live in a true one bedroom between 7th and 8th ave, and I am north of Garfield Pl on a side street, not facing an avenue. A friend of mine lives in an semi-open one bedroom for $1350 on Seventh Ave that's North of Berkeley. It happens. I'm not saying all the apartments are that cheap, but you can find it if you spend more than a week looking.


You live in a closet on a crooked block

A&O
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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby A&O » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:03 pm

I pay 1495 to live in a true one bedroom between 7th and 8th ave, and I am north of Garfield Pl on a side street, not facing an avenue. A friend of mine lives in an semi-open one bedroom for $1350 on Seventh Ave that's North of Berkeley. It happens. I'm not saying all the apartments are that cheap, but you can find it if you spend more than a week looking.


...or if you're willing to work through a broker, the fees for which a firm typically covers.

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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby IAFG » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:13 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
IAFG wrote:What's the rent in Liberia and Russia? Seriously that is a stupid comparison. After you get done paying basic expenses, a fat student loan payment and taxes, the remainder looks more like a pittance.


I don't think you actually think it's a pittance and i'd be surprised if you really thought that. 100k after taxes, even with a loan payment, puts your QOL far ahead of the rest of the city. Sure, it isn't what you dream of, you aren't living like a trump, but you are living well above the VAST majority of people in the city, in the state, in the country, and in the world. I love how in some threads people argue that NYC isn't that bad and show me stats on how to live cheaply in brooklyn and then in the next people tell me they can barely live off of 160k in NYC.

People, wake up, you don't deserve anything. You may have goals far and above 160k, sure, and you may reach them. But, that doesn't make 160k a pittance in any definition of the word. I'd love to be a millionaire, but that isn't going to cause me to act like i'm poor because I make 160k. The only people who act like that are, essentially, disconnected from reality.

you can probably live comfortably on $160k in NYC, BUT your loans will probably outlast your biglaw career. the job you "exit" to won't necessarily pay what you were making in biglaw, so you probably will want to pay down that debt faster than the minimum payment.

also, you can't live like a student when you're working. you just can't. wardrobe and other expenses go up. you don't have time to bargain shop and you are more willing to pay "convenience" fees.

oh, and if you want to have kids? lol you're fucked. if you have loans & a family & live in man-fucking-hattan, $160k won't go far at all.

Renzo
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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby Renzo » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:31 pm

Take it from someone who lives in NYC and manages to feed his family/children: you can live a comfortable life here for much less than $160k.

For the first few years out, my lifestyle will stay the same (since it's comfortable, if modest), and the loans will get paid quickly. If five years from now, I'm bringing in a mere $120k in-house someplace, with the loans all or mostly gone, life will be good for me and my kids.

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Unemployed
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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby Unemployed » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:32 pm

I don't know about success stories, but this thread is full of T14 FAIL.

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homestyle28
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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby homestyle28 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:38 pm

JazzOne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I just spent 2 days arguing with someone claiming all lawyers start of with a salary of 50,000+ no matter what school they graduate from, and that working in a big law is the worst move one can make after graduation because it pays the least.

What kind of moron argued that position?


And why did you spend 2 days on it?

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SemperLegal
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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby SemperLegal » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:39 pm

IAFG wrote:... & live in man-fucking-hattan, $160k won't go far at all.


Of course you could live in NJ. My father commuted everyday until I was thirteen and he worked hours that would make an I-banker throw in the towel and/or commit seppuku. He managed to travel about an hour and fifteen minutes a day so the five of us could have a pretty great QOL on about 100k less than 160k, with pretty high student loans (though obviously not t14 high). Life is full of trade-offs.

Good man, my dad was. He would literally beat me if he ever heard me even hoping for six figures right out of school with zero experience in my chosen industry, let alone calling it a "pittance."

Probally a flame though.

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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:49 pm

c
Last edited by APimpNamedSlickback on Sun May 15, 2011 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

HITeacher2
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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby HITeacher2 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:18 am

Renzo wrote:Take it from someone who lives in NYC and manages to feed his family/children: you can live a comfortable life here for much less than $160k.

For the first few years out, my lifestyle will stay the same (since it's comfortable, if modest), and the loans will get paid quickly. If five years from now, I'm bringing in a mere $120k in-house someplace, with the loans all or mostly gone, life will be good for me and my kids.


Thank you for the breath of fresh air Renzo.

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:i still don't understand why people felt the need to write these long-winded self-righteous screeds about the per capita income of bangladesh. like, holy shit, if am willing to work harder to make more money, and someone else would rather have a less stressful life with less money, i don't see an issue. if 80k makes you happy, fantastic! if that number is 8 million, also great! why the fuck do we care this much about others' subjective perceptions of an optimal lifestyle?

to. each. his (or her). own.


If you don't care how other people go about living their lives, why did you make that post? :) People are allowed to have opinions about what other people think. Forums thrive off these opinions.

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lolschool2011
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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby lolschool2011 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:03 am

I owe the thread an apology for using a relativist approach coupled with the term "pittance."

I really didn't expect it to be taken so literally, and by literally I should also say the lowest denominator of what pittance can describe. My bad?

Guys, gals, I know you'd be relatively comfortable with 160k/year anywhere unless you had bad habits beyond the scope of describing in this post, but if you want to own a nice home or condo in a pricey city as well as have wife and kids in your 30's... you're really just going to be a 60+ hr/week wage slave until you (hopefully) advance in you career. (bonuses, higher salary, etc)

Anyways, here's where I'm coming from. I present my expenses below...

Mortgage: 3,200/mo w/prop taxes escrowed
Assesments: 250/mo
Car: 650 w/insurance
Cable/utilites/cell phone: 600/mo
Food: 500/mo
Misc/gym/entertainment/etc: 500/mo

That's $5,700/month.... yes, I have a pretty sizable mortgage, but have any of you priced out homes in a city? If you want to own, prepare for a financial slap in the face. It's humbling, to say the least. It also adjusts (relatively speaking) your idea of what a 160k salary means/is. It is, dare I say again, a "pittance" if you consider it from this point of view.

160k is only 8-9k/month cash. If I had a student loan payment of around 1k/month.... I'd only be saving about 2k/month. Who here thinks that's working towards financial security for you or your family? Maybe you'll be able to retire in 100 years, assuming inflation doesn't completely rape the value of your low-risk investments and we don't suffer another recession (read: depression) every 6-8 years which strips your higher risk stuff. (good luck w/that not happening in the US) I think our generation will be lucky if we avoid a total collapse of the dollar in the next 20 years.

Anyways, I apologize for the relativist approach, but I do think (after reading some posts) a lot of you are a bit out of touch with what goes on in adult land.


Now, does anyone have any success stories or not?

p.s. I came from nothing which is probably why I (admittedly) overcompensate w/relatively expensive things/tastes.

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SemperLegal
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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby SemperLegal » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:35 am

lolschool2011 wrote:If I had a student loan payment of around 1k/month.... I'd only be saving about 2k/month. .


That is, more or less, three times as much as the average college-educated person's discretionary income was pre-recession, according to the BLS.

However, as for success stories, my older brother's friend went to a T15-20, class of 2007, hung out his own shingle and cleared a half million in bills receivable this year (I setup his billing program). I think he actually collected far less, but still lives a pretty sweet life well beyond what you can expect in big law.


Full disclosure, my friend inherited much of his 40+ year practicing attorney father's clients, guidance, and good name.

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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:21 am

IAFG wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
IAFG wrote:What's the rent in Liberia and Russia? Seriously that is a stupid comparison. After you get done paying basic expenses, a fat student loan payment and taxes, the remainder looks more like a pittance.


I don't think you actually think it's a pittance and i'd be surprised if you really thought that. 100k after taxes, even with a loan payment, puts your QOL far ahead of the rest of the city. Sure, it isn't what you dream of, you aren't living like a trump, but you are living well above the VAST majority of people in the city, in the state, in the country, and in the world. I love how in some threads people argue that NYC isn't that bad and show me stats on how to live cheaply in brooklyn and then in the next people tell me they can barely live off of 160k in NYC.

People, wake up, you don't deserve anything. You may have goals far and above 160k, sure, and you may reach them. But, that doesn't make 160k a pittance in any definition of the word. I'd love to be a millionaire, but that isn't going to cause me to act like i'm poor because I make 160k. The only people who act like that are, essentially, disconnected from reality.

you can probably live comfortably on $160k in NYC, BUT your loans will probably outlast your biglaw career. the job you "exit" to won't necessarily pay what you were making in biglaw, so you probably will want to pay down that debt faster than the minimum payment.

also, you can't live like a student when you're working. you just can't. wardrobe and other expenses go up. you don't have time to bargain shop and you are more willing to pay "convenience" fees.

oh, and if you want to have kids? lol you're fucked. if you have loans & a family & live in man-fucking-hattan, $160k won't go far at all.


I think you have issues. Not to mention your math is off. People live on 50,000 salary comfortably in NYC, let alone you on 160,000 salary.

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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:21 am

IAFG wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
IAFG wrote:What's the rent in Liberia and Russia? Seriously that is a stupid comparison. After you get done paying basic expenses, a fat student loan payment and taxes, the remainder looks more like a pittance.


I don't think you actually think it's a pittance and i'd be surprised if you really thought that. 100k after taxes, even with a loan payment, puts your QOL far ahead of the rest of the city. Sure, it isn't what you dream of, you aren't living like a trump, but you are living well above the VAST majority of people in the city, in the state, in the country, and in the world. I love how in some threads people argue that NYC isn't that bad and show me stats on how to live cheaply in brooklyn and then in the next people tell me they can barely live off of 160k in NYC.

People, wake up, you don't deserve anything. You may have goals far and above 160k, sure, and you may reach them. But, that doesn't make 160k a pittance in any definition of the word. I'd love to be a millionaire, but that isn't going to cause me to act like i'm poor because I make 160k. The only people who act like that are, essentially, disconnected from reality.

you can probably live comfortably on $160k in NYC, BUT your loans will probably outlast your biglaw career. the job you "exit" to won't necessarily pay what you were making in biglaw, so you probably will want to pay down that debt faster than the minimum payment.

also, you can't live like a student when you're working. you just can't. wardrobe and other expenses go up. you don't have time to bargain shop and you are more willing to pay "convenience" fees.

oh, and if you want to have kids? lol you're fucked. if you have loans & a family & live in man-fucking-hattan, $160k won't go far at all.


I think you have issues. Not to mention your math is off. People live on 50,000 salary comfortably in NYC, let alone you on 160,000 salary.

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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:I think you have issues. Not to mention your math is off. People live on 50,000 salary comfortably in NYC, let alone you on 160,000 salary.


Why the hell would you work your ass off at a top law school to end up working 70+ hours a week so that you can live "comfortably"?
It's not that there's anything wrong with making 45K after taxes and expenses (which is what happens to 160K in NYC), it's just that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you think about it.

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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby A&O » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:30 am

Why the hell would you work your ass off at a top law school to end up working 70+ hours a week so that you can live "comfortably"?


This is a weird sense of entitlement. If you want models and bottles, you chose the wrong profession (and you're targeting the wrong market too).

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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby Voyager » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:36 am

A&O wrote:
Why the hell would you work your ass off at a top law school to end up working 70+ hours a week so that you can live "comfortably"?


This is a weird sense of entitlement. If you want models and bottles, you chose the wrong profession (and you're targeting the wrong market too).


I don't think that is a weird sense of entitlement. Law school is a very large investment of time and money. If you are not substantially improving your income than law school was a poor investment. I feel the same way about working 70 hours a week: if I am not earning a six figure salary, then what the hell am I doing working that much?

On the other hand, $160k is a ton of money even with loans in NYC.

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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby A&O » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:39 am

I don't think that is a weird sense of entitlement. Law school is a very large investment of time and money. If you are not substantially improving your income than law school was a poor investment. I feel the same way about working 70 hours a week: if I am not earning a six figure salary, then what the hell am I doing working that much?


Oh... I don't know... to be a lawyer???? You enjoy being an attorney? You enjoy doing legal work?

Again, if you went into law school expecting to substantially improve your income, you did the math wrong.

And I agree, I think $160,000 in NYC, even after taxes and loans, is a huge chunk of change.
Last edited by A&O on Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:39 am

A&O wrote:
Why the hell would you work your ass off at a top law school to end up working 70+ hours a week so that you can live "comfortably"?


This is a weird sense of entitlement. If you want models and bottles, you chose the wrong profession (and you're targeting the wrong market too).


Either you have a fundamental misunderstanding of "entitlement" or you've been living in NYC for too long. Outside of certain parts of California there is nowhere else in the country where you would be making that much money and working that much--yet taking home such a small percentage. You're essentially paying to say that you are living in NYC when you choose to live there. Ask your average blue collar American if they would choose to have a salary of 160K drop all the way to 40K just so they could say they're "cool" and live in NYC. I know you don't realize this but most people work their entire lives to make 160K, ask them how they feel about losing 80 percent of that just so they can say they live in NYC.

Oh... I don't know... to be a lawyer????

Again, if you went into law school expecting to substantially improve your income, you did the math wrong.

And I agree, I think $160,000 in NYC, even after taxes and loans, is a huge chunk of change.




Again, if you don't think law school/working at a big firm is a good way to substantially improve your income, you've been living in NYC for way too long. You're out of touch with what a 160K salary should be able to buy you because your idea of what things should cost is based on a NYC cost standard. NYC and California are about the only places in the nation where that kind of salary doesn't substantially improve your income.

I'm beginning to understand why so many people on here think going to law school is a terrible idea for making good money--even when they can go to a school like Yale. It's because many of them are thinking about doing it in the context of working in NYC. The fact that there right really let's you know how unbelievably expensive New York is--you're practically paying to breath when you live there.

A&O
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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby A&O » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:46 am

Ask your average blue collar American if they would choose to have a salary of 160K drop all the way to 40K just so they could say they're "cool" and live in NYC.


I think you misunderstand the motives people have for living in New York City. The vast majority don't do it just so they can say, "I'm cool. I live in NYC." It's usually for some other reason. I enjoy NYC in itself, for example.

The drop isn't to 40,000$. Take-home after taxes is around $96,000. However much you choose to put toward loans is your decision. Having $50,000 in cash for the year (assuming you put $46,000 toward the loans) after all is said and done is not just comfortable. It's downright luxurious.

And yes, a blue-collar worker would opt for this. Your typical blue-collar worker is living paycheck to paycheck, and has terrible benefits. Law firms provide significant benefits aside from the $160,000 salary.

As an aside, you seem particularly bitter about people who live in New York City. What did they ever do to you? Did kids from NYC pick on you in high school?

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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby AreJay711 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:53 am

BruceWayne wrote:
A&O wrote:
Why the hell would you work your ass off at a top law school to end up working 70+ hours a week so that you can live "comfortably"?


This is a weird sense of entitlement. If you want models and bottles, you chose the wrong profession (and you're targeting the wrong market too).


Either you have a fundamental misunderstanding of "entitlement" or you've been living in NYC for too long. Outside of certain parts of California there is nowhere else in the country where you would be making that much money and working that much--yet taking home such a small percentage. You're essentially paying to say that you are living in NYC when you choose to live there. Ask your average blue collar American if they would choose to have a salary of 160K drop all the way to 40K just so they could say they're "cool" and live in NYC. I know you don't realize this but most people work their entire lives to make 160K, ask them how they feel about losing 80 percent of that just so they can say they live in NYC.

Oh... I don't know... to be a lawyer????

Again, if you went into law school expecting to substantially improve your income, you did the math wrong.

And I agree, I think $160,000 in NYC, even after taxes and loans, is a huge chunk of change.




Again, if you don't think law school/working at a big firm is a good way to substantially improve your income, you've been living in NYC for way too long. NYC and California are about the only places in the nation where that kind of salary doesn't substantially improve your income.

I'm beginning to understand why so many people on here think going to law school is a terrible idea for making good money--even when they can go to a school like Yale. It's because many of them are thinking about doing it in the context of working in NYC. That really let's you know how unbelievably expensive New York is--you're practically paying to breath when you live there.


According to that paycheck calculator earlier in the thread, there isn't a huge difference in take home pay in NYC and other places (I just checked NYC vs DC vs VA so I could be wrong) since most of the big time taxes are national level taxes. What screws you is rent. My parents rented out a 3 br house on the water, across the street from a yacht club, with its own private pier for $2200 a month only one hour from DC. They might have under-priced it a little but 2200 won't get you very much in NYC but you do have to admit that is is a choice to take biglaw in NYC vs a small firm in a small city for the same after-rent income

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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby gwlaw2012 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:54 am

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:i still don't understand why people felt the need to write these long-winded self-righteous screeds about the per capita income of bangladesh. like, holy shit, if am willing to work harder to make more money, and someone else would rather have a less stressful life with less money, i don't see an issue. if 80k makes you happy, fantastic! if that number is 8 million, also great! why the fuck do we care this much about others' subjective perceptions of an optimal lifestyle?

to. each. his (or her). own.



If you think just about anyone in Bangladesh wouldn't LOVE to go to school and work as a lawyer making $160k and that YOU are somehow working harder in life, you just don't get it.

Try to get some empthay and understanding of humanism before you go to law school.

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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby A&O » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:59 am

I'm just seeing this other silly post from BruceWayne:

Again, if you don't think law school/working at a big firm is a good way to substantially improve your income, you've been living in NYC for way too long.


Nope. If you wanted the highest probability of improving your income significantly, you chose the wrong profession altogether. I stick by this claim. You seem to use enough xoxo lingo, so you should know this too: If you want money, law is not the field. I'm sorry the economic crisis hasn't taught this to you. Many of my fellow law students would be happy to tell you the same thing.

The fact that there right really let's you know how unbelievably expensive New York is--you're practically paying to breath when you live there.


Now you're just exaggerating. First, living in NYC is not so vastly financially different from living in other markets. The picture you paint is cute, but inaccurate. Second, law students shouldn't be expecting models & bottles in any market out of a top law school, even when in big law.

Does law school make financial sense? Maybe. It depends on a person's circumstances. It still makes financial sense to do BigLaw in NYC with the loans and the taxes. All I'm saying is, don't expect models & bottles.

You seem to want models & bottles. Hate to break to you, but that ain't happening in either Houston or Atlanta. Well, you might find some plus-sized models in Houston if you're into that sort of thing.

A&O
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Re: Detailed T14 Success Stories w/Salary Info.

Postby A&O » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:03 pm

My parents rented out a 3 br house on the water, across the street from a yacht club, with its own private pier for $2200 a month only one hour from DC. They might have under-priced it a little but 2200 won't get you very much in NYC but you do have to admit that is is a choice to take biglaw in NYC vs a small firm in a small city for the same after-rent income


If you're willing to commute one hour into NYC, and don't mind taking a train, there are some fine, spacious houses in even the better parts of NJ (Short Hills, Livingston, Chatham), or you can take the train in from Connecticut, Long Island, or Westchester. There are many options.

DC might be a more solid proposition. But compared to other markets like Atlanta and Houston, NY "suburbs" are superior for raising a family. The school systems, even public, are leaps and bounds beyond Atlanta and Houston systems. The private schools are even better. The areas are safer. Real estate has much better residual and appreciation value in these areas than in the South (as a reminder, the depreciation in real estate happened mostly in Southern states, where McMansions ruled the roost). Same with DC. Land value there has been increasing even more rapidly since the economic crisis began (isn't Donald Trump building a golf club out there?).




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