1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

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romothesavior
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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby romothesavior » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:40 pm

Stephanie13 wrote:I also don't really see how we're overrepresented in law school. I know most of the Asians at WUSTL are actually the LLM students.

The majority are definitely LLMs, but don't you think we have a pretty sizeable Asian JD population? It seems like it to me anyways. Overall I feel like we have a pretty diverse class (although perhaps not that many Hispanic students, from what I've seen).

In any case, that Stephanie girl is the coolest azn in the whole school, without question!

keg411
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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby keg411 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:43 pm

Aqua, it seems to be restricted to certain states. Though I suppose it couldn't hurt to talk to my school anyway.

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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby Stephanie13 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:48 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Stephanie13 wrote:I also don't really see how we're overrepresented in law school. I know most of the Asians at WUSTL are actually the LLM students.

The majority are definitely LLMs, but don't you think we have a pretty sizeable Asian JD population? It seems like it to me anyways. Overall I feel like we have a pretty diverse class (although perhaps not that many Hispanic students, from what I've seen).

In any case, that Stephanie girl is the coolest azn in the whole school, without question!

Haha awesome :) Thanks Romo. I guess it can be considered pretty sizable.. but it definitely seems much smaller than our AA population and I think the respective BALSA and APALSA groups are a testament to that.

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snowpeach06
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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby snowpeach06 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:53 pm

I've always wished jews would be counted as minorities. But, since it's a religion and we're like half the law school population, we can't be. Ohh well. Although I also don't know that I buy the female thing. If it's a boost, it's probably minimal at best.

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romothesavior
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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby romothesavior » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:57 pm

ITT: Everyone wants a boost.

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snowpeach06
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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby snowpeach06 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:59 pm

Random question: how many people get paying jobs their 2l summer? Is it still a freakishly small percentage, or is it more common? My 2l friend is trying to convince me it happens a lot, but, she is top of her class with an engineering degree from undergrad, so I think she might just not know the reality. For people doing patents, of course your going to get paid.

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romothesavior
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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby romothesavior » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:08 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:Random question: how many people get paying jobs their 2l summer? Is it still a freakishly small percentage, or is it more common? My 2l friend is trying to convince me it happens a lot, but, she is top of her class with an engineering degree from undergrad, so I think she might just not know the reality. For people doing patents, of course your going to get paid.

You don't know this?

Depends on your school, but far, far more people get paying jobs than 1L summer. The percentage of people getting firm jobs will be much higher, and government agencies will be more likely to pay. It may not be this way at lower ranked schools, but the percent of people being paid at a Tier 1 school next summer will be much higher.

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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby snowpeach06 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:21 pm

romothesavior wrote:
snowpeach06 wrote:Random question: how many people get paying jobs their 2l summer? Is it still a freakishly small percentage, or is it more common? My 2l friend is trying to convince me it happens a lot, but, she is top of her class with an engineering degree from undergrad, so I think she might just not know the reality. For people doing patents, of course your going to get paid.

You don't know this?

Depends on your school, but far, far more people get paying jobs than 1L summer. The percentage of people getting firm jobs will be much higher, and government agencies will be more likely to pay. It may not be this way at lower ranked schools, but the percent of people being paid at a Tier 1 school next summer will be much higher.

Higher, I'm sure. But higher than a few kids isn't saying much. Plus, I'm at a T2.

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romothesavior
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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby romothesavior » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:33 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:Higher, I'm sure. But higher than a few kids isn't saying much. Plus, I'm at a T2.

The job search at a T2 is obviously very tough sledding, but the number should be noticeably higher. Obviously firms do the majority of their hiring for the 2L summer, so that will push the number a little higher, but it seems like a lot of PI/government positions that don't pay 1Ls will at least consider paying 2Ls. For example, most DA's offices, government offices and AG's offices (or at least the ones that I have applied to) will at least consider paying 2Ls. If you can get a 2L summer job (no small feat, even at a T20), the odds of it paying are a lot higher than your 1L summer job.

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romothesavior
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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby romothesavior » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:34 pm

What is a good timeline for a follow up call? I have applied to some smaller firms that I haven't heard back from, and I'm thinking about calling to follow up and ask about their timeline for hiring. How long should I wait? I want to call while the iron is still hot and they're still possibly hiring, but I don't want to be a nuisance.

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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby snowpeach06 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:48 pm

Our CSO says between 10 days and 2 weeks.

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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby keg411 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:48 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:Higher, I'm sure. But higher than a few kids isn't saying much. Plus, I'm at a T2.


So am I. You pretty much have to do a lot of legwork yourself. Even if you try and transfer to a T14. It pretty much means a lot of targeted mailings in late July and really doing homework on firms. There are actually some good TLS threads that might help.

Still, I'm already nervous about OCI and I still have to "repeat" another semester of grades to even qualify, which will not be easy.

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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby moandersen » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:59 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:
moandersen wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:The diverse kids probably wish they weren't the only ones in the class. I'm one of two black males in my class of nearly 200, and I definitely get tired of being the "black male correspondent" on every issue.


In my class they put all 4 asians in the same section. I had a good laugh. I guess the AZNs cant survive on our own. :mrgreen:

How do URMs let firms know that they are URMs other than through applying to a diversity program? In their resume? cover letter? I can see listing something like Black Law Student Association in the resume, but is there another way to do it? Just curious.


thanks for the insight.

Im definitely signing up for the SEMJF and plan on being smart with my bids. Because if fall oci is anything like this spring 1L oci, the same 20-30 people will be getting all the interviews. Aqua, expect some PMs later in the semester. :D

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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby snowpeach06 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:05 pm

keg411 wrote:
snowpeach06 wrote:Higher, I'm sure. But higher than a few kids isn't saying much. Plus, I'm at a T2.


So am I. You pretty much have to do a lot of legwork yourself. Even if you try and transfer to a T14. It pretty much means a lot of targeted mailings in late July and really doing homework on firms. There are actually some good TLS threads that might help.

Still, I'm already nervous about OCI and I still have to "repeat" another semester of grades to even qualify, which will not be easy.

I'm only top 25%, so, I think I just need to really improve. I mean, I was all happy with my grades at first, until I realized I needed to be top 10% to have even small firms not laugh at my application.

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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:00 pm

welp
got a 1L offer today in maryland, just out of DC
not "market" but a comfortable amount
smaller firm

basically i spammed a lot of places and this one clicked. i went in for an interview a week or so ago and the interviewer and i just talked for a couple of hours. i am from the DC area and have never left, went to high school, college, and law school in/around DC, so we talked about that for most of it.

I am at GW.. not sure of exact class rank but somewhere between 50% (since I know what median is) and 35% (since I am not a "thurgood marshall scholar" or whatever, though I don't know if they've even announced those yet). The dude didn't really care, he gave me an assignment and told me to get back to him with a memo in 24 hrs and I'm pretty sure based everything on that. It is odd, because I got destroyed in LRW but the work I did for him was apparently satisfactory.

i guess the point is, cast a wide net, and it always helps if you can really demonstrate ties to where you are. don't let grades eat you up because apparently not everyone cares that much. this isn't "biglaw" paying 3k a week and that probably is different, but i have <$5k in loans so i have no need for that.

also for those of you in DC, this guy went on and on about how he's surprised at the local market's move towards recovery, so that's a refreshing professional opinion. take it with a grain of salt, though, because he substantiated that with a number of reasons that i didn't really understand.

so all of you slightly above median folk, if you are decent human beings and that comes through in your behavior and demeanor someone will want you on board, it just takes time and a lot of correspondence.

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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby Grizz » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:07 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:Women definitely count. If I were you, I'd make extra sure to sign up for the Southeastern Minority Job Fair, and to also ask your CSO about any others.

hahahaha



Seriously. If you are an Asian, Latino, African American, Female, White guy with a funny last name, etc... I'd advise you to sign up for the SEMJF.


I'm signing up. You're like 5/5 on advice to me so far.

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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby phonepro » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:10 am

keg411 wrote:
snowpeach06 wrote:Higher, I'm sure. But higher than a few kids isn't saying much. Plus, I'm at a T2.


So am I. You pretty much have to do a lot of legwork yourself. Even if you try and transfer to a T14. It pretty much means a lot of targeted mailings in late July and really doing homework on firms. There are actually some good TLS threads that might help.

Still, I'm already nervous about OCI and I still have to "repeat" another semester of grades to even qualify, which will not be easy.


what do you mean by "qualify"

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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:52 am

JazzOne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:unpaid usao or paid midsized (200+) summer associate? 1L T2 school.

If you want biglaw as a career, I'd take the paid firm gig.


why?

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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby quadsixm » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:03 am

Stephanie13 wrote:Being Asian stinks, and I can say that b/c I am asian. We don't get URM boost yet we get counted in the school's minority percentage numbers that they get to show off as having diversity. I guess having a boost for firm work is kinda cool.. I also don't really see how we're overrepresented in law school. I know most of the Asians at WUSTL are actually the LLM students.

Anyway, not trying to be controversial here but thought I would add my 2 cents!


Don't mean to derail the thread but i agree, not enough asian americans at WUSTL. I'm pretty sure i'm friends with all 8-9 or so of the american-born asians in our class.

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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby beach_terror » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:04 am

To those in the running for 1L SA jobs, what's the typical time frame before a callback?

keg411
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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby keg411 » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:05 am

phonepro wrote:
keg411 wrote:
snowpeach06 wrote:Higher, I'm sure. But higher than a few kids isn't saying much. Plus, I'm at a T2.


So am I. You pretty much have to do a lot of legwork yourself. Even if you try and transfer to a T14. It pretty much means a lot of targeted mailings in late July and really doing homework on firms. There are actually some good TLS threads that might help.

Still, I'm already nervous about OCI and I still have to "repeat" another semester of grades to even qualify, which will not be easy.


what do you mean by "qualify"


I mean that if I don't stay in the top 5%-ish of my class, I likely won't get into the transfer schools I plan to apply to and won't get anything at OCI whether I stay or go. And neither of these things are guaranteed even if I keep my grades or do better. Honestly, part of me wishes I had never done well in the first place -- because now I have something to lose.

Honestly, I don't think you have much to worry about -- getting a 1L SA is pretty much gold; especially if you get an offer to come back for your 2L summer. So you already qualify :). I'm also really not talking about this in any other context than of what I personally need to do; not what people at T2's or non-T14's as a whole need to do.

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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby JazzOne » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:unpaid usao or paid midsized (200+) summer associate? 1L T2 school.

If you want biglaw as a career, I'd take the paid firm gig.


why?

I did a 1L SA, and I talked about it quite a bit during my 2L interviews. A lot of interviewers asked me about the work I did at my 1L firm. The experience gave me a better idea how law firms work because I had access to a lot of firm attorneys who could answer questions for me. Plus, getting a firm job 1L year is basically like getting a mulligan. If I screwed up the 1L SA, it wasn't going to ruin my chances for a full-time job. Having never worked at a law firm before, I appreciated the practice swing before the real deal 2L summer.

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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby Stanford4Me » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:unpaid usao or paid midsized (200+) summer associate? 1L T2 school.

If you want biglaw as a career, I'd take the paid firm gig.


why?


1 - You get paid
2 - You get experience in a field related to what you want to do long-term
3 - You can relate your experience from your 1L SA gig whenever your talking with interviews at other firms during OCI and what not


At least, that's what I imagine the reasons are.

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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby Stephanie13 » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:14 am

JazzOne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:unpaid usao or paid midsized (200+) summer associate? 1L T2 school.

If you want biglaw as a career, I'd take the paid firm gig.


why?

I did a 1L SA, and I talked about it quite a bit during my 2L interviews. A lot of interviewers asked me about the work I did at my 1L firm. The experience gave me a better idea how law firms work because I had access to a lot of firm attorneys who could answer questions for me. Plus, getting a firm job 1L year is basically like getting a mulligan. If I screwed up the 1L SA, it wasn't going to ruin my chances for a full-time job. Having never worked at a law firm before, I appreciated the practice swing before the real deal 2L summer.

I'm actually curious about this. If say you have a 1L SA job but through diversity hire measures, what are the chances that you'll get a 2L SA job? Couldn't the 1L gig be seen as unrepresentative of actual chances for the 2L gig since 2L hiring is less about diversity? Or am I getting this completely wrong and mixed up? :oops:

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Re: 1L summer job application apathy/encouragement thread

Postby JazzOne » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:17 am

Stephanie13 wrote:Couldn't the 1L gig be seen as unrepresentative of actual chances for the 2L gig since 2L hiring is less about diversity? Or am I getting this completely wrong and mixed up? :oops:

You could be right. I knew people who got 1L SAs but are not returning to the firm this summer (I assume they were no offered). I also know people with 1L SAs who knocked it out of the park and are returning. And I definitely know lots of cats who had no job last summer but do have a job this summer. OCI for 1Ls is just weird. It's even less of a meritocracy than 2L OCI, which isn't much of a meritocracy anyway.




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