Best markets given the current economic conditions

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Eric475
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Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby Eric475 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:49 pm

in the process of applying to law schools now. the subject pretty much says it all. Suppose I don't care where I live for the rest of my life, but want to put myself in the best place to find a jobl; which market is currently the easiest to break into?

I heard NYC is bouncing back? Syracuse undergrad so NYC is obviously a big draw

I'm originally from the Boston area but I've heard that market is small and insulated and has not bounced back.

Warm weather is nice too; how are some of the south eastern (or southwestern) markets doing?

Just some ideas but i'm interested to hear your opinions on which markets are currently the easiest to find a job in.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby megaTTTron » Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:06 am

Eric475 wrote:in the process of applying to law schools now. the subject pretty much says it all. Suppose I don't care where I live for the rest of my life, but want to put myself in the best place to find a jobl; which market is currently the easiest to break into?

I heard NYC is bouncing back? Syracuse undergrad so NYC is obviously a big draw

I'm originally from the Boston area but I've heard that market is small and insulated and has not bounced back.

Warm weather is nice too; how are some of the south eastern (or southwestern) markets doing?

Just some ideas but i'm interested to hear your opinions on which markets are currently the easiest to find a job in.


NYC is most def the strongest. I guess insofar as you don't need ties to NYC to get CBs. My experience (from CCN) was that cities like LA, Chicago, and DC required some type of tie to the area. Although, I did receive a few CBs in Chi and DC. Bottom line is that NYC is much stronger. Whether it's "best", as you ask, I'm not sure.

Eric475
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby Eric475 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:43 pm

megaTTTron wrote:
Eric475 wrote:in the process of applying to law schools now. the subject pretty much says it all. Suppose I don't care where I live for the rest of my life, but want to put myself in the best place to find a jobl; which market is currently the easiest to break into?

I heard NYC is bouncing back? Syracuse undergrad so NYC is obviously a big draw

I'm originally from the Boston area but I've heard that market is small and insulated and has not bounced back.

Warm weather is nice too; how are some of the south eastern (or southwestern) markets doing?

Just some ideas but i'm interested to hear your opinions on which markets are currently the easiest to find a job in.


NYC is most def the strongest. I guess insofar as you don't need ties to NYC to get CBs. My experience (from CCN) was that cities like LA, Chicago, and DC required some type of tie to the area. Although, I did receive a few CBs in Chi and DC. Bottom line is that NYC is much stronger. Whether it's "best", as you ask, I'm not sure.


Would you say that goingto a law school in an area is enough to demonstrate ties? Or would "ties" be more conctrete (like family, or where you grew up)

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megaTTTron
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby megaTTTron » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:17 pm

Eric475 wrote:
megaTTTron wrote:
Eric475 wrote:in the process of applying to law schools now. the subject pretty much says it all. Suppose I don't care where I live for the rest of my life, but want to put myself in the best place to find a jobl; which market is currently the easiest to break into?

I heard NYC is bouncing back? Syracuse undergrad so NYC is obviously a big draw

I'm originally from the Boston area but I've heard that market is small and insulated and has not bounced back.

Warm weather is nice too; how are some of the south eastern (or southwestern) markets doing?

Just some ideas but i'm interested to hear your opinions on which markets are currently the easiest to find a job in.


NYC is most def the strongest. I guess insofar as you don't need ties to NYC to get CBs. My experience (from CCN) was that cities like LA, Chicago, and DC required some type of tie to the area. Although, I did receive a few CBs in Chi and DC. Bottom line is that NYC is much stronger. Whether it's "best", as you ask, I'm not sure.


Would you say that goingto a law school in an area is enough to demonstrate ties? Or would "ties" be more conctrete (like family, or where you grew up)


As a general rule, going to a law school in a market you want to work is smart/ safe. I transferred to Chicago, and I'm not from Chicago. I still had a hard time convincing firms here I wanted to stay (this is a strange situation given that I was a transfer). The easiest market to obtain CBs in without a true connection is NYC, as I said. But if you want to work in a market, go to a law school there or go to a top law school.

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Doritos
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby Doritos » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:17 pm

My understanding is that going to school is good enough to establish ties to a region.

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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:24 pm

Doritos wrote:My understanding is that going to school is good enough to establish ties to a region.


I agree. I had never lived in CA before law school and have no family there, but I'm attending UCLA now. No LA firm really cared to grill me over my lack of connections (i.e., nothing more than the standard "how do you like LA?") and I even landed some NorCal callbacks.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby megaTTTron » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Doritos wrote:My understanding is that going to school is good enough to establish ties to a region.


I agree. I had never lived in CA before law school and have no family there, but I'm attending UCLA now. No LA firm really cared to grill me over my lack of connections (i.e., nothing more than the standard "how do you like LA?") and I even landed some NorCal callbacks.


Why is this thread anonymous?

Anonymous User
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:28 pm

megaTTTron wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Doritos wrote:My understanding is that going to school is good enough to establish ties to a region.


I agree. I had never lived in CA before law school and have no family there, but I'm attending UCLA now. No LA firm really cared to grill me over my lack of connections (i.e., nothing more than the standard "how do you like LA?") and I even landed some NorCal callbacks.


Why is this thread anonymous?


Really? viewtopic.php?f=23&t=130748

Let me highlight some of the salient points for you:

The anonymous post feature is meant to be used in a limited sense for when someone is disclosing information that might actually be sensitive in some manner. This can include information about grades, where a person has interviewed/received job offers, and other information that might identify them if their username was known.


Do NOT post in the thread itself about what you perceive to be misuse or abuse of the anonymous feature, as this only serves to derail the thread.


HTH.

Edit: I won't derail this thread further by posting a new response to MegaTTTron; I will only say that any sensible person would quickly realize the two posts were written by the same person. Don't get so defensive...just follow the rules, friend.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby megaTTTron » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
megaTTTron wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Doritos wrote:My understanding is that going to school is good enough to establish ties to a region.


I agree. I had never lived in CA before law school and have no family there, but I'm attending UCLA now. No LA firm really cared to grill me over my lack of connections (i.e., nothing more than the standard "how do you like LA?") and I even landed some NorCal callbacks.


Why is this thread anonymous?


Really? viewtopic.php?f=23&t=130748

Let me highlight some of the salient points for you:

The anonymous post feature is meant to be used in a limited sense for when someone is disclosing information that might actually be sensitive in some manner. This can include information about grades, where a person has interviewed/received job offers, and other information that might identify them if their username was known.


Do NOT post in the thread itself about what you perceive to be misuse or abuse of the anonymous feature, as this only serves to derail the thread.


HTH.


Excellent use of the anonymous feature right here. :roll:

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joemoviebuff
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby joemoviebuff » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:46 pm

I'm a splitter and will be attending UVA next year. I'd love to be in LA after graduation, but have no ties to it other than I lived there for a summer. I didn't get into UCLA or USC (I assume) cuz of a lower GPA. The only California schools I got into were UC Davis and Pepperdine with some money. Figured UVA would give me a better shot there than those, in addition to all the other reasons to go there. I guess what I'm asking is what kind of grades would 1. give me a shot at, and 2. be a lock for, a job in CA?

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RVP11
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby RVP11 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:52 pm

joemoviebuff wrote:I'm a splitter and will be attending UVA next year. I'd love to be in LA after graduation, but have no ties to it other than I lived there for a summer. I didn't get into UCLA or USC (I assume) cuz of a lower GPA. The only California schools I got into were UC Davis and Pepperdine with some money. Figured UVA would give me a better shot there than those, in addition to all the other reasons to go there. I guess what I'm asking is what kind of grades would 1. give me a shot at, and 2. be a lock for, a job in CA?


There's no magic formula. You could strike out in LA with a 3.9, or you could get something with a 3.2.

Your ties are fine - obviously being born and raised in SoCal or having attended USC would help, but you at least have something, and LA is not a super insular market. Some LA firms (the higher end ones) don't seem to care a ton about ties as long as you can articulate a decent reason for being there (and "I lived here for a summer and would like to work here after graduation" is a decent reason).

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joemoviebuff
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby joemoviebuff » Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:02 pm

RVP11 wrote:
joemoviebuff wrote:I'm a splitter and will be attending UVA next year. I'd love to be in LA after graduation, but have no ties to it other than I lived there for a summer. I didn't get into UCLA or USC (I assume) cuz of a lower GPA. The only California schools I got into were UC Davis and Pepperdine with some money. Figured UVA would give me a better shot there than those, in addition to all the other reasons to go there. I guess what I'm asking is what kind of grades would 1. give me a shot at, and 2. be a lock for, a job in CA?


There's no magic formula. You could strike out in LA with a 3.9, or you could get something with a 3.2.

Your ties are fine - obviously being born and raised in SoCal or having attended USC would help, but you at least have something, and LA is not a super insular market. Some LA firms (the higher end ones) don't seem to care a ton about ties as long as you can articulate a decent reason for being there (and "I lived here for a summer and would like to work here after graduation" is a decent reason).


Excellent. Thanks for your response!

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megaTTTron
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby megaTTTron » Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:08 pm

RVP11 wrote:
joemoviebuff wrote:I'm a splitter and will be attending UVA next year. I'd love to be in LA after graduation, but have no ties to it other than I lived there for a summer. I didn't get into UCLA or USC (I assume) cuz of a lower GPA. The only California schools I got into were UC Davis and Pepperdine with some money. Figured UVA would give me a better shot there than those, in addition to all the other reasons to go there. I guess what I'm asking is what kind of grades would 1. give me a shot at, and 2. be a lock for, a job in CA?


There's no magic formula. You could strike out in LA with a 3.9, or you could get something with a 3.2.

Your ties are fine - obviously being born and raised in SoCal or having attended USC would help, but you at least have something, and LA is not a super insular market. Some LA firms (the higher end ones) don't seem to care a ton about ties as long as you can articulate a decent reason for being there (and "I lived here for a summer and would like to work here after graduation" is a decent reason).


The bolded is credited. It's really up in the air right now, but just fyi: I struck out at 10+ LA firms at OCI from Chicago as a transfer. I lived in LA for a summer. I know 2 others who had worked in LA for 1+ years who struck out as well.

Wavelet
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby Wavelet » Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:11 pm

joemoviebuff wrote:I'm a splitter and will be attending UVA next year. I'd love to be in LA after graduation, but have no ties to it other than I lived there for a summer. I didn't get into UCLA or USC (I assume) cuz of a lower GPA. The only California schools I got into were UC Davis and Pepperdine with some money. Figured UVA would give me a better shot there than those, in addition to all the other reasons to go there. I guess what I'm asking is what kind of grades would 1. give me a shot at, and 2. be a lock for, a job in CA?


The perverse thing is the only firms that really don't care about your connection to LA are the most difficult to get (Irell and Munger). Grades that shut you out of those two might still make you eligible for other LA firms, but most of those care quite a bit about ties to LA, so you won't have a "lock" on LA short of having extraordinary grades.

Unless you're top 10%, bid conservatively. That is, even if you want LA, make sure to have a healthy dose of NYC/DC firms (where UVA has better placement) in your bid list. I know some people with good (but not great) grades who bid mostly away from their schools' primary market and struck out because of it.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:38 pm

Doritos wrote:My understanding is that going to school is good enough to establish ties to a region.


Depending on the market this isn't true - namely Boston. Those with local connections + local school outperformed those from say CA or NYC in Boston. Those at the top of the class were fine either way.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby Lawquacious » Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:42 pm

I've heard that the Seattle market has stayed relatively strong.

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RVP11
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby RVP11 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:59 pm

Wavelet wrote:The perverse thing is the only firms that really don't care about your connection to LA are the most difficult to get (Irell and Munger). Grades that shut you out of those two might still make you eligible for other LA firms, but most of those care quite a bit about ties to LA, so you won't have a "lock" on LA short of having extraordinary grades.

Unless you're top 10%, bid conservatively. That is, even if you want LA, make sure to have a healthy dose of NYC/DC firms (where UVA has better placement) in your bid list. I know some people with good (but not great) grades who bid mostly away from their schools' primary market and struck out because of it.


I agree that the best firms in LA are also the ones who care least about ties. But I'll just add that, based on my experience and what I witnessed in who got callbacks from GDC, OMM, and Latham, those three weren't insistent on strong ties. It was, however, very difficult to get offers (i.e. they're not dishing out 3 offers for every 4 callbacks like S&C, STB, or some other NYC firms - it was probably more like 1 offer for every 4 callbacks).

The firms that grilled me the most on LA ties were "lesser" Vault firms with LA satellite offices. I have no experience with Munger and Irell but I imagine they would have trouble demanding strong LA ties with their high GPA cutoffs. They're probably just looking for the very best people they can get.

I second the "bid conservatively" caution. I'll add that "bidding conservatively" means bidding on NYC, not bidding on lower ranked or smaller firms. And not bidding on DC.

NYC is a fantastic backup market for someone shooting for LA because very few NYC firms will question your ties and the LA firms understand that you can't fill up your entire bid sheet with SoCal, so they presumably won't hold your NYC bidding against you.

2LLLL
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby 2LLLL » Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:17 am

Anyone think that NY becomes a tougher market to crack next year due to all of the "Bid NY" advice floating around?

A&O
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby A&O » Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:17 pm

2LLLL wrote:Anyone think that NY becomes a tougher market to crack next year due to all of the "Bid NY" advice floating around?


Maybe, maybe not. It might not be more competitive because those who bid on NYC as a "back-up" aren't really taking stuff away from those who bid on it as their primary market, since the latter will rank the NYC firms higher. Even if there is increased competition, more and more law firms will probably be increasing their class sizes in NYC, and that might counterbalance it.

solidsnake
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby solidsnake » Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:25 pm

RVP11 wrote:
I second the "bid conservatively" caution. I'll add that "bidding conservatively" means bidding on NYC, not bidding on lower ranked or smaller firms. And not bidding on DC.

NYC is a fantastic backup market for someone shooting for LA because very few NYC firms will question your ties and the LA firms understand that you can't fill up your entire bid sheet with SoCal, so they presumably won't hold your NYC bidding against you.


this is all highly credited

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newyorker88
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Re: Best markets given the current economic conditions

Postby newyorker88 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:41 pm

Doritos wrote:My understanding is that going to school is good enough to establish ties to a region.


Not true for Boston




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