1L Summer Job - NY Appellate Division or midsize firm

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Anonymous User
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1L Summer Job - NY Appellate Division or midsize firm

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:04 am

So I have these two opportunities. One is certainly more prestigious (judicial internship) but the other is more practical (midsize firm), and can lead to part time employment during my 2L year. Which should I choose?

acdisagod
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Re: 1L Summer Job - NY Appellate Division or midsize firm

Postby acdisagod » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:26 am

I called the NY appellate division's third department and was told they don't take first year law students, how did you get the job?

Sup Kid
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Re: 1L Summer Job - NY Appellate Division or midsize firm

Postby Sup Kid » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:43 am

I disagree that a judicial internship is more "prestigious" -- LOTS of 1Ls do judicial internships. If your goal is biglaw from 2L on-campus recruiting, I think working in a firm can be just as good, if not better, than a judicial internship. It shows that you know how to work in a firm environment, will probably give you a better writing sample (since lots of times you can't use something you do for a judge), and of course you get to make some money.

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Re: 1L Summer Job - NY Appellate Division or midsize firm

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:55 am

Sup Kid wrote:I disagree that a judicial internship is more "prestigious" -- LOTS of 1Ls do judicial internships. If your goal is biglaw from 2L on-campus recruiting, I think working in a firm can be just as good, if not better, than a judicial internship. It shows that you know how to work in a firm environment, will probably give you a better writing sample (since lots of times you can't use something you do for a judge), and of course you get to make some money.

I think you right, working in a firm is an overall smarter plan for those planning planing on big law, or any kind of practice for that matter. I guess the question is, why do so many people shoot for judicial internships instead of focusing on getting real work experience?

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L Summer Job - NY Appellate Division or midsize firm

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sup Kid wrote:I disagree that a judicial internship is more "prestigious" -- LOTS of 1Ls do judicial internships. If your goal is biglaw from 2L on-campus recruiting, I think working in a firm can be just as good, if not better, than a judicial internship. It shows that you know how to work in a firm environment, will probably give you a better writing sample (since lots of times you can't use something you do for a judge), and of course you get to make some money.

I think you right, working in a firm is an overall smarter plan for those planning planing on big law, or any kind of practice for that matter. I guess the question is, why do so many people shoot for judicial internships instead of focusing on getting real work experience?


Take the midlaw job especially for the option to continue working part-time during the year. The ability to get extra $ off your debt load and actually get experience is way more valuable than sitting in Corporations. Structure your schedule to maximize hours. (I am totally jealous btw).

Not very many people get substantive firm work experience because they don't know what firms to look at where they would have a shot. Judges usually hire 1Ls (same with professors for RAs), but finding these midlaw firms that hire 1Ls is really hard. There isn't a list like NALP or a list of judges or the law school faculty directory. IMO the midlaw job is way better for your OCI chances than the judicial internship. The judge or professor might be more prestigious, but the midlaw job itself has way more value in terms of the kind of work you'll be doing for the firm.

Cogburn87
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Re: 1L Summer Job - NY Appellate Division or midsize firm

Postby Cogburn87 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:00 pm

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Last edited by Cogburn87 on Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L Summer Job - NY Appellate Division or midsize firm

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:07 pm

Cogburn87 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I think you right, working in a firm is an overall smarter plan for those planning planing on big law, or any kind of practice for that matter. I guess the question is, why do so many people shoot for judicial internships instead of focusing on getting real work experience?

lol wut?

It seems that most people just mass mail judges, and don't even seek out working for firms. And, since most people don't end up becoming judges, it isn't the most practical use of time. Most people end up in the for-profit sector, so working in a like environment is bound to be more practical.

If the firm is pretty low on the midsize scale (i.e. borderline small law firm), would that be that make a difference?

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GeePee
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Re: 1L Summer Job - NY Appellate Division or midsize firm

Postby GeePee » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Cogburn87 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I think you right, working in a firm is an overall smarter plan for those planning planing on big law, or any kind of practice for that matter. I guess the question is, why do so many people shoot for judicial internships instead of focusing on getting real work experience?

lol wut?

It seems that most people just mass mail judges, and don't even seek out working for firms. And, since most people don't end up becoming judges, it isn't the most practical use of time. Most people end up in the for-profit sector, so working in a like environment is bound to be more practical.

If the firm is pretty low on the midsize scale (i.e. borderline small law firm), would that be that make a difference?

So, basically, you're also suggesting that clerking is a waste of time if you don't plan to be a judge *roll*

How much money is this "midlaw" firm paying you?

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L Summer Job - NY Appellate Division or midsize firm

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:05 pm

GeePee wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Cogburn87 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I think you right, working in a firm is an overall smarter plan for those planning planing on big law, or any kind of practice for that matter. I guess the question is, why do so many people shoot for judicial internships instead of focusing on getting real work experience?

lol wut?

It seems that most people just mass mail judges, and don't even seek out working for firms. And, since most people don't end up becoming judges, it isn't the most practical use of time. Most people end up in the for-profit sector, so working in a like environment is bound to be more practical.

If the firm is pretty low on the midsize scale (i.e. borderline small law firm), would that be that make a difference?

So, basically, you're also suggesting that clerking is a waste of time if you don't plan to be a judge *roll*

How much money is this "midlaw" firm paying you?


What advantage does interning for judge give you other than saying you were good enough to get the job?

Renzo
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Re: 1L Summer Job - NY Appellate Division or midsize firm

Postby Renzo » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:10 pm

Sup Kid wrote:I disagree that a judicial internship is more "prestigious" -- LOTS of 1Ls do judicial internships.

This. Judicial interns are basically free labor for the clerks, and don't always get much exposure to real, challenging work. If you can get a job that pays money, I'd take it.

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L Summer Job - NY Appellate Division or midsize firm

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:14 pm

Renzo wrote:
Sup Kid wrote:I disagree that a judicial internship is more "prestigious" -- LOTS of 1Ls do judicial internships.

This. Judicial interns are basically free labor for the clerks, and don't always get much exposure to real, challenging work. If you can get a job that pays money, I'd take it.

I think even taking a non-paying small/mid law job is better choice for people who plan on working in the private sector than even a federal circuit court internship. It's more hands on experience and is better for the resume you will try to sell.

LurkerNoMore
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Re: 1L Summer Job - NY Appellate Division or midsize firm

Postby LurkerNoMore » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:36 pm

It is impossible to make generalizations about judicial internships. Some interns do research for clerks in the library and barely see the judge or even inside of the chambers. Some interns are treated like clerks (hopefully with a bit more supervision, though most clerks come in not knowing much either). If you are lucky enough to get a judge in the latter category, then you can get a lot of really good experience. If you are in the former category, it will probably be a less rewarding summer, but you can still generally find something to talk about in interviews.

You should take the position you think will give you the better experience. Absent that, take the one that pays (ie, not the internship). However, it is generally bad form to turn down an offer from a judge unless they indicate otherwise, so if you already have the internship offer, tread carefully.

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ntugwater
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Re: 1L Summer Job - NY Appellate Division or midsize firm

Postby ntugwater » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Renzo wrote:
Sup Kid wrote:I disagree that a judicial internship is more "prestigious" -- LOTS of 1Ls do judicial internships.

This. Judicial interns are basically free labor for the clerks, and don't always get much exposure to real, challenging work. If you can get a job that pays money, I'd take it.

I think even taking a non-paying small/mid law job is better choice for people who plan on working in the private sector than even a federal circuit court internship. It's more hands on experience and is better for the resume you will try to sell.

firms dont care about what you did your 1l summer and you can sell w/e you did if you spend 10 minutes thinking about it

dakatz
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Re: 1L Summer Job - NY Appellate Division or midsize firm

Postby dakatz » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sup Kid wrote:I disagree that a judicial internship is more "prestigious" -- LOTS of 1Ls do judicial internships. If your goal is biglaw from 2L on-campus recruiting, I think working in a firm can be just as good, if not better, than a judicial internship. It shows that you know how to work in a firm environment, will probably give you a better writing sample (since lots of times you can't use something you do for a judge), and of course you get to make some money.

I think you right, working in a firm is an overall smarter plan for those planning planing on big law, or any kind of practice for that matter. I guess the question is, why do so many people shoot for judicial internships instead of focusing on getting real work experience?


Firstly, you have the statistical likelihood of success. Not that many firms hire 1L's, especially among the big firms. And among the small firms, the jobs are really hard to discover or find out about. And even then, many people only end up with such firms during 1L summer because they know someone or have some connection. Quite the contrary, we all know that many judges hire 1L's. And don't forget that firms could not care less about your 1L summer experience. It will make for a few minutes of trivial conversation. So I wouldn't worry too much about it. Pick whatever you think you will enjoy more.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: 1L Summer Job - NY Appellate Division or midsize firm

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:24 pm

acdisagod wrote:I called the NY appellate division's third department and was told they don't take first year law students, how did you get the job?

Seek out individual judges on the appellate division in their hometown chambers. Usually you'd intern and work with their individual clerk, since the judges are in their home offices the vast majority of the time and only go to Albany (for third dep't) a couple days a month to hear oral arguments.

Also know that the third department is pretty much dead during the month of July, so interns for third dep't judges often work in June and August but intern elsewhere (some do supreme court judges) in July.




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