What's up with South Florida and law firms?

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Grizz
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby Grizz » Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:33 am

mrm2083 wrote:The firms may only hire a few people per year but its not like they have all of the 14 throwing themselves at them. Most associates are from UM and UF.


Not if Carlton Fields' last SAs are typical of the new economy. And they hire more SAs than most.

--LinkRemoved--

conn09
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby conn09 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:51 am

rad law wrote:
mrm2083 wrote:The firms may only hire a few people per year but its not like they have all of the 14 throwing themselves at them. Most associates are from UM and UF.


Not if Carlton Fields' last SAs are typical of the new economy. And they hire more SAs than most.

--LinkRemoved--


The places I interviewed with had most of their grads from UM/UF, but it wasn't the run of the mill graduates, they were all Order of the Coif multiple #1 exam UM/UF people and often times had MA's in other fields.

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RVP11
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby RVP11 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:01 am

conn09 wrote:
rad law wrote:
mrm2083 wrote:The firms may only hire a few people per year but its not like they have all of the 14 throwing themselves at them. Most associates are from UM and UF.


Not if Carlton Fields' last SAs are typical of the new economy. And they hire more SAs than most.

--LinkRemoved--


The places I interviewed with had most of their grads from UM/UF, but it wasn't the run of the mill graduates, they were all Order of the Coif multiple #1 exam UM/UF people and often times had MA's in other fields.


I wonder how they feel working with plenty of T14ers at or below median.

A&O
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby A&O » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:10 am

I wonder how they feel working with plenty of T14ers at or below median.


...people usually don't care about that stuff during the summer program.

But why do I get the feeling you're going to be "that guy?"

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RVP11
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby RVP11 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:12 am

A&O wrote:
I wonder how they feel working with plenty of T14ers at or below median.


...people usually don't care about that stuff during the summer program.

But why do I get the feeling you're going to be "that guy?"


Because you jump to stupid conclusions based on 10 seconds of snark?

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98234872348
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby 98234872348 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:21 pm

RVP11 wrote:
conn09 wrote:
rad law wrote:
mrm2083 wrote:The firms may only hire a few people per year but its not like they have all of the 14 throwing themselves at them. Most associates are from UM and UF.


Not if Carlton Fields' last SAs are typical of the new economy. And they hire more SAs than most.

--LinkRemoved--


The places I interviewed with had most of their grads from UM/UF, but it wasn't the run of the mill graduates, they were all Order of the Coif multiple #1 exam UM/UF people and often times had MA's in other fields.


I wonder how they feel working with plenty of T14ers at or below median.

As much as I hate to admit it, TITCR.

conn09
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby conn09 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:36 pm

RVP11 wrote:
conn09 wrote:
rad law wrote:
mrm2083 wrote:The firms may only hire a few people per year but its not like they have all of the 14 throwing themselves at them. Most associates are from UM and UF.


Not if Carlton Fields' last SAs are typical of the new economy. And they hire more SAs than most.

--LinkRemoved--


The places I interviewed with had most of their grads from UM/UF, but it wasn't the run of the mill graduates, they were all Order of the Coif multiple #1 exam UM/UF people and often times had MA's in other fields.


I wonder how they feel working with plenty of T14ers at or below median.



From my experience, I don't think they hire from the median or below from T-14s (Harvard included).

TheFriendlyBarber
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby TheFriendlyBarber » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:12 pm

conn09 wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
conn09 wrote:
rad law wrote:
Not if Carlton Fields' last SAs are typical of the new economy. And they hire more SAs than most.

--LinkRemoved--


The places I interviewed with had most of their grads from UM/UF, but it wasn't the run of the mill graduates, they were all Order of the Coif multiple #1 exam UM/UF people and often times had MA's in other fields.


I wonder how they feel working with plenty of T14ers at or below median.



From my experience, I don't think they hire from the median or below from T-14s (Harvard included).


You're not likely to get YHS talent paying $130,000--median, below median or otherwise. The rest of the T-14? Sure.

A&O
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby A&O » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:24 pm

And the douchiness of this thread increases by a factor of ten.

conn09
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby conn09 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:47 pm

conn09 wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
conn09 wrote:
rad law wrote:
Not if Carlton Fields' last SAs are typical of the new economy. And they hire more SAs than most.

--LinkRemoved--


The places I interviewed with had most of their grads from UM/UF, but it wasn't the run of the mill graduates, they were all Order of the Coif multiple #1 exam UM/UF people and often times had MA's in other fields.


I wonder how they feel working with plenty of T14ers at or below median.



From my experience, I don't think they hire from the median or below from T-14s (Harvard included).


You're not likely to get YHS talent paying $130,000--median, below median or otherwise. The rest of the T-14? Sure.[/quote]

130,000 in Miami > 160,00 in NY by a wide margin. There's not as much to do in Miami, but 130 goes way further.

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RVP11
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby RVP11 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:35 pm

conn09 wrote:
130,000 in Miami > 160,00 in NY by a wide margin. There's not as much to do in Miami, but 130 goes way further.


True, but the problem is a lot of people at T14s live for prestige and are willing to take the COL hit to work in NY/DC. Miami = no prestige.

A&O
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby A&O » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:25 am

I think (and am glad) that the poor bonuses from Cravath and peer are making law students and associates rightfully reconsider whether the "prestige" is worth it.

Aqualibrium
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby Aqualibrium » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:48 am

A&O wrote:I think (and am glad) that the poor bonuses from Cravath and peer are making law students and associates rightfully reconsider whether the "prestige" is worth it.



I think all things considered, 7,500 on top of 160k is anything but "poor."

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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby sundance95 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:02 am

Aqualibrium wrote:
A&O wrote:I think (and am glad) that the poor bonuses from Cravath and peer are making law students and associates rightfully reconsider whether the "prestige" is worth it.



I think all things considered, 7,500 on top of 160k is anything but "poor."


In exchange for 2200 billable or GTFO?

Aqualibrium
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby Aqualibrium » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:04 am

sundance95 wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:
A&O wrote:I think (and am glad) that the poor bonuses from Cravath and peer are making law students and associates rightfully reconsider whether the "prestige" is worth it.



I think all things considered, 7,500 on top of 160k is anything but "poor."


In exchange for 2200 billable or GTFO?


Fact is, 1st years are ridiculously over payed for their skill set, and 2200 hours comes with the territory. Period.

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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:45 am

RVP11 wrote:
conn09 wrote:
130,000 in Miami > 160,00 in NY by a wide margin. There's not as much to do in Miami, but 130 goes way further.


True, but the problem is a lot of people at T14s live for prestige and are willing to take the COL hit to work in NY/DC. Miami = no prestige.


As a T14er in top 1/3 who targeted and interviewed with many South Florida firms, I can attest to fact that Miami firms are as competitive, if not more competitive, in their hiring than their NY offices, since they are hiring only a handful at most of associates.

A firm like Weil (V10), hires 2 SAs, to do top-level litigation in its Miami office, and pays NY salary ($160k). You are really going to tell me that is less prestigious than the same job at their NYC office? You are getting paid significantly more when adjusted for COL, working in a smaller office (with all the advantages that brings), doing the same work. And despite the elitism (an apparent xenophobia) of certain posters here, Miami is a great city to live in and I find it hard to fathom that all things being equal, someone rather be in NYC.

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sundance95
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby sundance95 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:53 am

Aqualibrium wrote:
sundance95 wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:
A&O wrote:I think (and am glad) that the poor bonuses from Cravath and peer are making law students and associates rightfully reconsider whether the "prestige" is worth it.



I think all things considered, 7,500 on top of 160k is anything but "poor."


In exchange for 2200 billable or GTFO?


Fact is, 1st years are ridiculously over payed for their skill set, and 2200 hours comes with the territory. Period.


If you are billing 2200 outside of NY/DC...you are probably doing it wrong. Or more right than you need to.

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sundance95
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby sundance95 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:A firm like Weil (V10), hires 2 SAs, to do top-level litigation in its Miami office, and pays NY salary ($160k). You are really going to tell me that is less prestigious than the same job at their NYC office? You are getting paid significantly more when adjusted for COL, working in a smaller office (with all the advantages that brings), doing the same work. And despite the elitism (an apparent xenophobia) of certain posters here, Miami is a great city to live in and I find it hard to fathom that all things being equal, someone rather be in NYC.


Valid points. Still less prestigious.

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NoleinNY
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby NoleinNY » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
conn09 wrote:
130,000 in Miami > 160,00 in NY by a wide margin. There's not as much to do in Miami, but 130 goes way further.


True, but the problem is a lot of people at T14s live for prestige and are willing to take the COL hit to work in NY/DC. Miami = no prestige.


As a T14er in top 1/3 who targeted and interviewed with many South Florida firms, I can attest to fact that Miami firms are as competitive, if not more competitive, in their hiring than their NY offices, since they are hiring only a handful at most of associates.

A firm like Weil (V10), hires 2 SAs, to do top-level litigation in its Miami office, and pays NY salary ($160k). You are really going to tell me that is less prestigious than the same job at their NYC office? You are getting paid significantly more when adjusted for COL, working in a smaller office (with all the advantages that brings), doing the same work. And despite the elitism (an apparent xenophobia) of certain posters here, Miami is a great city to live in and I find it hard to fathom that all things being equal, someone rather be in NYC.


But... Have you actually lived in Miami? There is a reason Michael Weston is always trying to leave...

Aqualibrium
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby Aqualibrium » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:14 am

sundance95 wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:
A&O wrote:I think (and am glad) that the poor bonuses from Cravath and peer are making law students and associates rightfully reconsider whether the "prestige" is worth it.



I think all things considered, 7,500 on top of 160k is anything but "poor."



Fact is, 1st years are ridiculously over payed for their skill set, and 2200 hours comes with the territory. Period.


If you are billing 2200 outside of NY/DC...you are probably doing it wrong. Or more right than you need to.


Don't know about you, but every firm I interviewed with in secondary markets had an expectation of at least 1800 hours at most, and more often, 2000; even the one's that prided themselves on having "no billable requirement."

That said, in the context of the quoted comments, I think it's pretty clear that we were in fact referencing NYC/DC firms.

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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:38 am

Fact is, 1st years are ridiculously over payed for their skill set, and 2200 hours comes with the territory. Period.


Whether they're overpaid or not is irrelevant. The pay becomes poor when associates have the opportunity to make either slightly less money with better hours, or the same money with better hours. The pay in biglaw becomes poor when the pay-out makes no economic sense compared to the other options associates have.

Moreover, the pay is definitely poor when associates bill 3,000 hours to be paid 167,500$. No economic sense in doing that when you can be paid the same amount billing less at a less prestigious firm.

TheFriendlyBarber
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby TheFriendlyBarber » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
conn09 wrote:
130,000 in Miami > 160,00 in NY by a wide margin. There's not as much to do in Miami, but 130 goes way further.


True, but the problem is a lot of people at T14s live for prestige and are willing to take the COL hit to work in NY/DC. Miami = no prestige.


As a T14er in top 1/3 who targeted and interviewed with many South Florida firms, I can attest to fact that Miami firms are as competitive, if not more competitive, in their hiring than their NY offices, since they are hiring only a handful at most of associates.

A firm like Weil (V10), hires 2 SAs, to do top-level litigation in its Miami office, and pays NY salary ($160k). You are really going to tell me that is less prestigious than the same job at their NYC office? You are getting paid significantly more when adjusted for COL, working in a smaller office (with all the advantages that brings), doing the same work. And despite the elitism (an apparent xenophobia) of certain posters here, Miami is a great city to live in and I find it hard to fathom that all things being equal, someone rather be in NYC.


Weil Miami is a satellite of their NYC office. It is essentially a 30 member outpost (outhouse?) that does no Miami work. Sure, you get 160, but you're not talking prestige, much less Cravath prestige. In fact, it carries the cachet of an over-the-phone internet helpline technician based somewhere in Bangalore.
Last edited by TheFriendlyBarber on Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

A&O
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby A&O » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:47 pm

Technically, even Weil NYC is not talking "Cravath Prestige." :lol:

Aqualibrium
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby Aqualibrium » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fact is, 1st years are ridiculously over payed for their skill set, and 2200 hours comes with the territory. Period.


Whether they're overpaid or not is irrelevant. The pay becomes poor when associates have the opportunity to make either slightly less money with better hours, or the same money with better hours. The pay in biglaw becomes poor when the pay-out makes no economic sense compared to the other options associates have.

Moreover, the pay is definitely poor when associates bill 3,000 hours to be paid 167,500$. No economic sense in doing that when you can be paid the same amount billing less at a less prestigious firm.



Eye roll How many people are billing 3,000 hours?

Anonymous User
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Re: What's up with South Florida and law firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:48 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Fact is, 1st years are ridiculously over payed for their skill set, and 2200 hours comes with the territory. Period.


Whether they're overpaid or not is irrelevant. The pay becomes poor when associates have the opportunity to make either slightly less money with better hours, or the same money with better hours. The pay in biglaw becomes poor when the pay-out makes no economic sense compared to the other options associates have.

Moreover, the pay is definitely poor when associates bill 3,000 hours to be paid 167,500$. No economic sense in doing that when you can be paid the same amount billing less at a less prestigious firm.



Eye roll How many people are billing 3,000 hours?


More than you would think. 3,000 was a bit of an exaggeration, but most associates at the firms that are ultra busy are billing around 2,800. The Cravath associates in particular have been getting a pounding this year. I'm almost positive a significant number will jump ship when they receive their bonus. People wonder where they will go, but there are many firms willing to take them, pay them 167,500$ or whatever, but require them to bill a lot less. Economically, that's obviously the best move.

Prestige points don't buy you much.




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