Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:54 pm

A&O wrote:
In fact I know some people who signed up to do multiple fake interviews that were offered by OCS here... still, as you said, if you want a good PI job you need to demonstrate interest (i.e. perhaps not work at a firm 2L year).


...and you actually believe all of them? That they wanted PI the whole time?


lol im sure some just said that to save face. im also sure some actually did it to sharpen/practice their interviewing skills. and then im sure some honestly always wanted to do PI but did not want to close the biglaw path completely [may not show genuine interest in interviews however] (i.e. if they got an awesome biglaw job and an okay PI job, they might go w/ the biglaw after some thought...while their #1 PI job may == they forsake the biglaw offer).

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Na_Swatch
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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby Na_Swatch » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:56 pm

A&O wrote:
In fact I know some people who signed up to do multiple fake interviews that were offered by OCS here... still, as you said, if you want a good PI job you need to demonstrate interest (i.e. perhaps not work at a firm 2L year).


...and you actually believe all of them? That they wanted PI the whole time?


given the context (HLS Christian Fellowship) why yes I believed them

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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:58 pm

Okay, there's a lot of anon use going on here that isn't necessary. I'm going to be really nice and not out anyone in this thread, if y'all start behaving and not abusing the anon feature. It's not for speculation or sharing anecdotes, and it's definitely not for questioning other users. It's for concealing things that would identify you, personally, to schools, employers, or classmates, and that's it.

Blatant abuse will result in both outing and bans. Please consider whether you need to post anon accordingly.

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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby A&O » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:32 pm

Na_Swatch wrote:
A&O wrote:
In fact I know some people who signed up to do multiple fake interviews that were offered by OCS here... still, as you said, if you want a good PI job you need to demonstrate interest (i.e. perhaps not work at a firm 2L year).


...and you actually believe all of them? That they wanted PI the whole time?


given the context (HLS Christian Fellowship) why yes I believed them


How many people is that? Like... 5 people? And this is evidence meant to discount the evidence posted above?

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:40 pm

apparently it is a good thing (answering my own question)
Last edited by DoubleChecks on Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Na_Swatch
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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby Na_Swatch » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:11 pm

A&O wrote:
Na_Swatch wrote:
A&O wrote:
In fact I know some people who signed up to do multiple fake interviews that were offered by OCS here... still, as you said, if you want a good PI job you need to demonstrate interest (i.e. perhaps not work at a firm 2L year).


...and you actually believe all of them? That they wanted PI the whole time?


given the context (HLS Christian Fellowship) why yes I believed them


How many people is that? Like... 5 people? And this is evidence meant to discount the evidence posted above?


just one example, but i do have multiple other examples talking to people who aren't very focused on firm jobs... (especially some older type students who have already had 4-5 year careers in other fields, looking to switch away from corporate work, those focused on gov./ political type stuff, etc.)

sure these are always a minority, but added up its not that small

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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby warumnicht » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:01 am

Another possibility: people went through OCI, got to know various biglaw firms and lawyers...and realized that they did not want to work for/with them. One of my classmates had a very optimistic attitude going into OCI, had the credentials for biglaw, and did well in his interviews, as evidenced by his callbacks and offers. And what did he do? Turned them down in favor of a small firm that he found outside of OCI.

His reasoning? OCI made him realize that he would not enjoy biglaw (insofar as anyone "enjoys" biglaw) and interacting with biglawyers.

Is that something that he should have realized before OCI? Yes, probably, and I think he did, to some extent. But if he had even a suspicion that biglaw might be a good match, I'd say that was a good reason to interview. It's conceivable that some PI people felt the same way...they wanted biglaw, but even if they were successful in their search, they realized that it was not for them.

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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:29 am

A lot of PI people do OCI half-heartedly. They do the interviews, see what happens, and then later on they won't be thinking "what if", but aren't exactly broken-hearted if they don't get a job. Some also do OCI with a few firms only, like plaintiff firms or those known for good pro bono programs. It's not as if OCI is an all or nothing thing; you can usually choose to participate as much or as little as you want.
At least at Berkeley, the # of people participating in OCI yet in a limited capacity is pretty high. I imagine it's the same at other schools.

Just as an FYI for those hoping to work abroad 1L summer, check CAREFULLY on when you have to be back for OCI or for deadlines over the summer. A lot of employers assume that summer interns are free through the end of August, because any LLM or LLB students they get from other countries are almost all free until September. You also don't want to fly straight back and be incredibly jet lagged, so plan accordingly. I had a hell of a time getting potential employers to accommodate Berkeley's wacky idea to start the semester so damn early, so be warned.

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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:04 am

There are at least a few people who have gotten shut out at Harvard. They were people who had poor grades (a bunch of P's) and/or bid unrealistically (DC exclusively). I know at least one that managed to find a firm outside of EIP pretty easily, but others sounded like they were struggling more. The problem is that by the time they realized they'd struck out, a lot of firms that might have taken them had filled up already. The late flyback week contributed to that.

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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:09 am

vanwinkle wrote:There are at least a few people who have gotten shut out at Harvard. They were people who had poor grades (a bunch of P's) and/or bid unrealistically (DC exclusively). I know at least one that managed to find a firm outside of EIP pretty easily, but others sounded like they were struggling more. The problem is that by the time they realized they'd struck out, a lot of firms that might have taken them had filled up already. The late flyback week contributed to that.


bunch of P's = poor grades? oh man im getting scared lol

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vanwinkle
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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:18 am

DoubleChecks wrote:bunch of P's = poor grades? oh man im getting scared lol

I was just having this conversation with an LLM, he was just as confused by the grading system here as I was. The problem with P's is that it could mean you were in the bottom 10% of the class or the top half; that's such a wide range it doesn't say anything about you, except that you didn't fail and you're not the best. Now, you collect a whole bunch of those, and it's even worse, because there's nothing else to point to. If you get like half H's and half P's, employers might think that means you were in the high end with your P's, but if you're mostly just P's (or if, god forbid, you have an LP) they might think you're someone they should take a pass on (pun intended).

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:30 am

vanwinkle wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:bunch of P's = poor grades? oh man im getting scared lol

I was just having this conversation with an LLM, he was just as confused by the grading system here as I was. The problem with P's is that it could mean you were in the bottom 10% of the class or the top half; that's such a wide range it doesn't say anything about you, except that you didn't fail and you're not the best. Now, you collect a whole bunch of those, and it's even worse, because there's nothing else to point to. If you get like half H's and half P's, employers might think that means you were in the high end with your P's, but if you're mostly just P's (or if, god forbid, you have an LP) they might think you're someone they should take a pass on (pun intended).


and here i was, a few days away from my exams, comfortable w/ the idea of getting mostly Ps

thanks vanwinkle, thanks lol

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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:32 am

DoubleChecks wrote:and here i was, a few days away from my exams, comfortable w/ the idea of getting mostly Ps

thanks vanwinkle, thanks lol

Is what I'm here for. :P

Just don't bid on all V10s and DC firms and you'll still find something. It's not just the grades, it's the bidding strategy too. Plus, you can, you know, worry about this stuff once you actually have grades.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:47 am

vanwinkle wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:and here i was, a few days away from my exams, comfortable w/ the idea of getting mostly Ps

thanks vanwinkle, thanks lol

Is what I'm here for. :P

Just don't bid on all V10s and DC firms and you'll still find something. It's not just the grades, it's the bidding strategy too. Plus, you can, you know, worry about this stuff once you actually have grades.


lol well i guess lucky for me i am 100% only bidding/targeting TX firms then

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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:23 am

Autoadmit reports not great results from HLS's 2009 EIP. I'm skeptical of the #s:

--LinkRemoved--

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:Autoadmit reports not great results from HLS's 2009 EIP. I'm skeptical of the #s:

--LinkRemoved--


oh btw, i just read the link; lot of hateful trolls haha, but still a lot of loose ends seen through their comments

# of ppl who accepted OCI offer/# of ppl who went to OCI doesnt seem to be a fair metric

650 obviously include 3Ls...and since a good chunk of ppl actually dont do OCI biglaw, subtract that from 550...then add in transfers, iunno the # but either way, i could totally see it working out to be like 377/500 2Ls who went to OCI and accepted OCI offers

that still doesnt consider the small group of ppl who got offers and chose not to go w/ biglaw (i know very small group, but traditionally, the idea was around 80% right? seems close enough to me...)

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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby invisiblesun » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:05 am

DoubleChecks wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Autoadmit reports not great results from HLS's 2009 EIP. I'm skeptical of the #s:

--LinkRemoved--


oh btw, i just read the link; lot of hateful trolls haha, but still a lot of loose ends seen through their comments

# of ppl who accepted OCI offer/# of ppl who went to OCI doesnt seem to be a fair metric

650 obviously include 3Ls...and since a good chunk of ppl actually dont do OCI biglaw, subtract that from 550...then add in transfers, iunno the # but either way, i could totally see it working out to be like 377/500 2Ls who went to OCI and accepted OCI offers

that still doesnt consider the small group of ppl who got offers and chose not to go w/ biglaw (i know very small group, but traditionally, the idea was around 80% right? seems close enough to me...)


not to mention that 391 was also thrown out there in the thread

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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:HLS 2L here......Harvard is moving the date up b/c over a 100 2L's STRUCK OUT

Did you just make up this number? AFAIK OCS has not released any 2010 data.

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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby concurrent fork » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:HLS 2L here......Harvard is moving the date up b/c over a 100 2L's STRUCK OUT

Did you just make up this number? AFAIK OCS has not released any 2010 data.

anon quote by accident

A&O
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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby A&O » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:12 am

It's interesting how people are aggressively trying to say it's 391, not 377. Really, guys? You're going to fight for the extra 14 people as if it really makes that much difference to the statistic?

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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby 2LLLL » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:09 pm

Whatever the exact number, it seems that there is a sizeable contingent of HLS students who struck out at OCI.

This thread should be posted in bold, 98 point font on the front page of TLS

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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:28 pm

2LLLL wrote:Whatever the exact number, it seems that there is a sizeable contingent of HLS students who struck out at OCI.

This thread should be posted in bold, 98 point font on the front page of TLS

Well, the question is how much of that was due to the late OCI/flyback week. HLS is rectifying at least part of the problem here.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:46 pm

2LLLL wrote:Whatever the exact number, it seems that there is a sizeable contingent of HLS students who struck out at OCI.

This thread should be posted in bold, 98 point font on the front page of TLS


well, the exact number and what you are considering actually affects it quite a bit

'conventional wisdom' on 2L OCI success rates (receive offer) ITE have been pegged to be ~80% (iunno where this number is from either, but ive heard it floated quite a bit)

since the stats include 3Ls AND just those who accepted offers, not those who got them...the actual % could very well be close to ~80%...which means i have no idea why everyone is so shocked haha

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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby 2LLLL » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:25 pm

'conventional wisdom' on 2L OCI success rates (receive offer) ITE have been pegged to be ~80% (iunno where this number is from either, but ive heard it floated quite a bit)

since the stats include 3Ls AND just those who accepted offers, not those who got them...the actual % could very well be close to ~80%...which means i have no idea why everyone is so shocked haha





Per AutoAdmit, about 590 HLS 2Ls (including transfers) participated in EIP, and either 377 or 391 (the difference is immaterial) accepted offers. Plugging that into a calculator, that comes out to 66%. I highly doubt that enough students received offers but chose not to accept any of them to materially swing the statistics.

Look at what this statistic says about going to law school - even at the #2 school in the country, you have a 1/3 chance of not getting BigLaw, which for a large amount of students is the only financially viable option coming out of law school.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:31 pm

2LLLL wrote:
'conventional wisdom' on 2L OCI success rates (receive offer) ITE have been pegged to be ~80% (iunno where this number is from either, but ive heard it floated quite a bit)

since the stats include 3Ls AND just those who accepted offers, not those who got them...the actual % could very well be close to ~80%...which means i have no idea why everyone is so shocked haha





Per AutoAdmit, about 590 HLS 2Ls (including transfers) participated in EIP, and either 377 or 391 (the difference is immaterial) accepted offers. Plugging that into a calculator, that comes out to 66%. I highly doubt that enough students received offers but chose not to accept any of them to materially swing the statistics.

Look at what this statistic says about going to law school - even at the #2 school in the country, you have a 1/3 chance of not getting BigLaw, which for a large amount of students is the only financially viable option coming out of law school.


oh where's the link to the 590 2L number -- i was looking for that and couldnt find it

thanks




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