Clerkship Quandry Forum

[Anonymous User]

So here is the situation- my state is I guess unusual in that its highest state court hires clerks BEFORE even off-plan federal judges start. The first judges on the highest state appellate court are accepting applications NOW from 2Ls for the 2012-13 term. Ideally I would want to apply for federal district court clerkships and have the state ultimate appellate court as a backstop, but here that is obviously impossible.

Here are my stats - Low T1 school (but the best school in my state, and the alma mater of several of the judges on my state's federal district court); top 5% (and taking as much credit/no credit as possible to maintain); law review with my case note already having been selected for publication this spring; state AG internship for 1L summer; prestigious federal agency externship this fall; NO BigLaw SA lined up for 2L summer; will be able to have solid, but not spectacular, letters of recommendation.

With this resume, I'm guessing I should be able to snag a clerkship on my state's highest appellate court fairly easily. However, I feel like I will be competitive, but not necessarily a lock, for a federal district court clerkship. Are my chances for a federal district court clerkship (the places I will be applying aren't ultra-prestige SDNY, but also not backwater D. Kansas or anything) strong enough that it is worth going into the federal clerkship hiring process without a state court safety net? Or should I try to lock up a spot on the state ultimate appellate court and forego the chance for a more prestigious Art III clerkship?

NOTE - while I would obviously accept a BigLaw offer if they called me tomorrow, I don't really want BigLaw, i.e. receiving a BigLaw offer after the clerkship would not be my preferred outcome.

[ggocat]

Any reason you can't apply for state court for 2012-2013 and then federal for 2013-2014/2015 (with state court clerkship on the resume for when you apply to federal)? If your grades maintain or (especially) increase, this could also give you a fighting chance at U.S. court of appeals. Note that you would be "off plan" for federal applications, and my impression is that federal judges generally appreciate state supreme court clerkships (I've known several state supremes go to federal clerkships). Keep in mind that your year in state court will bump your starting salary with the feds somewhere around $10k-$12k.

Regardless, I'd apply for the state court primarily because you don't have a jerb. As an added bonus, it will probably be more interesting work.

PS -- You may want to consider uncurved/generous curved graded courses. Top students at my school took graded courses all they way through final semester. People who "maintained" their 1L GPAs would drop significantly in class rank.

[Blindmelon]

Any reason you can't apply for state court for 2012-2013 and then federal for 2013-2014/2015 (with state court clerkship on the resume for when you apply to federal)?

I would do this. Bird in hand for 1st clerkship. State clerkships are typically better than this website gives credit for (at least at the highest level).

[ToTransferOrNot]

Your odds of getting an Art III clerkship are lower than you seem to think. I would highly recommend that you apply to the state supreme court.

[stinger35]

Any reason you can't apply for state court for 2012-2013 and then federal for 2013-2014/2015 (with state court clerkship on the resume for when you apply to federal)? If your grades maintain or (especially) increase, this could also give you a fighting chance at U.S. court of appeals. Note that you would be "off plan" for federal applications, and my impression is that federal judges generally appreciate state supreme court clerkships (I've known several state supremes go to federal clerkships). Keep in mind that your year in state court will bump your starting salary with the feds somewhere around $10k-$12k.

Regardless, I'd apply for the state court primarily because you don't have a jerb. As an added bonus, it will probably be more interesting work.

PS -- You may want to consider uncurved/generous curved graded courses. Top students at my school took graded courses all they way through final semester. People who "maintained" their 1L GPAs would drop significantly in class rank.

Is State Supreme -> Federal District more common than has been touted around here? (As in is it a plus or bump?)

[ggocat]

Is State Supreme -> Federal District more common than has been touted around here? (As in is it a plus or bump?)

I do not know the level of commonality that has been touted on TLS. Nor do I understand the distinction between "plus" and "bump."

[UCLAtransfer]

Your odds of getting an Art III clerkship are lower than you seem to think. I would highly recommend that you apply to the state supreme court.

Credited.

Even if your school has placed Art. III clerks in the past, I wouldn't count on this being the case in the current market. It is so out of control competitive these days that I have seen people from a range of schools who would have been a "lock" even a couple of years ago who came up entirely dry this year.

TTON is absolutely right.

[ToTransferOrNot]

Your odds of getting an Art III clerkship are lower than you seem to think. I would highly recommend that you apply to the state supreme court.

Credited.

Even if your school has placed Art. III clerks in the past, I wouldn't count on this being the case in the current market. It is so out of control competitive these days that I have seen people from a range of schools who would have been a "lock" even a couple of years ago who came up entirely dry this year.

TTON is absolutely right.

i.e., people on the Law Review editorial board at T6s are getting shut out, and it's not just because they are applying too aggressively. The rise in off-plan/alumni hiring has totally changed the game.

[Anonymous User]

i.e., people on the Law Review editorial board at T6s are getting shut out, and it's not just because they are applying too aggressively. The rise in off-plan/alumni hiring has totally changed the game.

Wow- even from district court clerkships?

[Renzo]

Is State Supreme -> Federal District more common than has been touted around here? (As in is it a plus or bump?)

I do not know the level of commonality that has been touted on TLS. Nor do I understand the distinction between "plus" and "bump."

Psshh.... you sound like Scalia.

[ToTransferOrNot]

i.e., people on the Law Review editorial board at T6s are getting shut out, and it's not just because they are applying too aggressively. The rise in off-plan/alumni hiring has totally changed the game.

Wow- even from district court clerkships?

Yep.

[stinger35]

Is State Supreme -> Federal District more common than has been touted around here? (As in is it a plus or bump?)

I do not know the level of commonality that has been touted on TLS. Nor do I understand the distinction between "plus" and "bump."

There isn't one. I wasn't referring to it as an either/or. Simply using a synonym to clear up any ambiguity in one or the other. Clearly that did not work. My deepest apologies.

[98234872348]

Your odds of getting an Art III clerkship are lower than you seem to think. I would highly recommend that you apply to the state supreme court.

This is generally TCR - my school is a flagship T1 (although, there are various other schools in our state with similar rankings) and I know, off the top of my head, 5 or 6 people with Art. III clerkships (although my sample size is limited, since I don't know too many 3Ls, but do know the ones on law review). Just for reference, at my school, 8-9 Art. III clerks (assuming there are people who have them I do not know about) would equate to about ~2% of students.

[SteelReserve]

Honestly, you may be overestimating your odds at the state clerkship alone, let alone federal. I am in no way saying your creds aren't fantastic and that you dont' have a realistic shot.

But the lack of big/regional biglaw on your resume is going to be a significant flaw. Your friends in the top 10% with the big/regional law firms on their resume are going to likely have a leg up. Don't ask me why, but state high court judges are just as snobby about a big firm being on your resume as a district judge is.

If I were you I'd get those resumes out and if you get an offer for the state supreme court, take it immediately with no hesitation.

[ggocat]

Is State Supreme -> Federal District more common than has been touted around here? (As in is it a plus or bump?)

I do not know the level of commonality that has been touted on TLS. Nor do I understand the distinction between "plus" and "bump."

There isn't one. I wasn't referring to it as an either/or. Simply using a synonym to clear up any ambiguity in one or the other. Clearly that did not work. My deepest apologies.

Oh, my bad. Yeah, it's a plus/bump. But probably only in the sense that anything can be a plus/bump. All else being equal, it's a plus/bump to have state clerkship on your resume.

[stinger35]

Honestly, you may be overestimating your odds at the state clerkship alone, let alone federal. I am in no way saying your creds aren't fantastic and that you dont' have a realistic shot.

But the lack of big/regional biglaw on your resume is going to be a significant flaw. Your friends in the top 10% with the big/regional law firms on their resume are going to likely have a leg up. Don't ask me why, but state high court judges are just as snobby about a big firm being on your resume as a district judge is.

If I were you I'd get those resumes out and if you get an offer for the state supreme court, take it immediately with no hesitation.

2 of the 4 district court judges that I've talked to at school said that they usually prefer non-biglaw clerks because of the "bad habits they pick up" - they followed this with saying that the vast majority they take are biglaw types, but mostly because of the grades/big law relationship. Just two dudes, small sample size, and something I know nothing about, just thought I'd throw that out there for a little solace for OP

[ggocat]

Honestly, you may be overestimating your odds at the state clerkship alone, let alone federal. I am in no way saying your creds aren't fantastic and that you dont' have a realistic shot.

I agree, but not with the rest about biglaw (at least at my state court--only about 25% of the clerks have biglaw). Probably depends on the state, though.

[XxSpyKEx]

Your odds of getting an Art III clerkship are lower than you seem to think. I would highly recommend that you apply to the state supreme court.

Credited.

Even if your school has placed Art. III clerks in the past, I wouldn't count on this being the case in the current market. It is so out of control competitive these days that I have seen people from a range of schools who would have been a "lock" even a couple of years ago who came up entirely dry this year.

TTON is absolutely right.

+1.

If I were you, I'd snatch up that highest state court clerkship if you can. It's also a pretty big plus in terms of article III clerkship applications for the following year (it's not all that uncommon at all for people, who weren't competitive enough for a district court, to do a state court --> district court), especially if it is a more prestigious highest state court (e.g. NY or DC court of appeals).

[Anonymous User]

DCCOA is prestigious?

[pinkzeppelin]

Poll interpretation: 12 posters are gunning for federal clerkships and don't want more competition. HTH

[ToTransferOrNot]

Poll interpretation: 12 posters are gunning for federal clerkships and don't want more competition. HTH

Several of the people ITT that are telling OP to take the state clerkship already have CoA clerkships. HTH

[XxSpyKEx]

DCCOA is prestigious?

In comparison to other highest "state" courts, yes (e.g. DC COA is way more prestigious than the highest state court in Nebraska). I'd also imagine it would be much easier to move from NY/DC COA --> Art III DC in Idaho than it would be to move from the Nebraska Supreme Court --> Art III DC in Idaho.

[Anonymous User]

Interesting. I don't disbelieve you, but do you know why is it considered more prestigious?

[XxSpyKEx]

Interesting. I don't disbelieve you, but do you know why is it considered more prestigious?

Because it's the most competitive market in the country. I think generally difficultly/competitiveness is indicative of prestige (i.e. the more difficuly/competitive it is to get something, the more prestigious it is). Given the schools and quality of students the court attracts relative to a court such as, e.g., Nebraska Supreme Court suggests DC COA is more prestigious than the Nebraska Supreme Court. I'm sure the fact that it's an article I fed court and the breadth of jurisdiction it has doesn't hurt either. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_o ... of_Appeals ("The court also has jurisdiction to review decisions of administrative agencies, boards, and commissions of the District government, as well as to answer questions of law certified by the Supreme Court of the United States, a United States court of appeals, or the highest appellate court of any state.")

[vamedic03]

Interesting. I don't disbelieve you, but do you know why is it considered more prestigious?

Because it's the most competitive market in the country. I think generally difficultly/competitiveness is indicative of prestige (i.e. the more difficuly/competitive it is to get something, the more prestigious it is). Given the schools and quality of students the court attracts relative to a court such as, e.g., Nebraska Supreme Court suggests DC COA is more prestigious than the Nebraska Supreme Court. I'm sure the fact that it's an article I fed court and the breadth of jurisdiction it has doesn't hurt either. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_o ... of_Appeals ("The court also has jurisdiction to review decisions of administrative agencies, boards, and commissions of the District government, as well as to answer questions of law certified by the Supreme Court of the United States, a United States court of appeals, or the highest appellate court of any state.")

Wrong court. They're referring to the District of Columbia Court of Appeals, not the U.S. Court of Appeals for the DC circuit.

EDIT - disregard, I misread the prior post.