Biglaw Concerns please

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LSHopeful2
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Biglaw Concerns please

Postby LSHopeful2 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:48 am

Hi,
we know that if you attend a t20 school and get into biglaw that can be good. However, I wanted to know how much does life in biglaw suck as an associate since you are subject to the whim or caprice of your boss every moment? A judge in a YouTube video described the prospects of biglaw as just a soulless money making android industry where the goal is to just make more and lay people off, lol.

Seems like medicine is a much more vital and noble profession.

He also said that the people in biglaw don't care about you as a person as you are there to satisfy them period. Is biglaw really that depressing and stressful? Better put, how different is law practice than law school? If you can't stand having bosses then would biglaw not be a good fit? Thanks.

Oh yeah, he said that As a bigfirm attorney your job primarily
will be to help rich corporations get more wealth or keep their wealth. That's what you do in biglaw.
For the video just YouTube search: biglaw.

Your thoughts please?

03121202698008
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:47 am

Yep, sounds about right.

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KMaine
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby KMaine » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:50 am

Doctors suck.

mst
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby mst » Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:07 am

You act as if completing a residency & med school + fellowship is going to be easier than big law... That can be just as soul crushing too, except you have to watch many people DIE and you spend many, many years of your life with little to no control of what you do.

I really don't understand how people can choose professions on such minor things like this. I can understand using reasons like this to choose midlaw or shitlaw or PI or govt. or whatever over Biglaw, but if you're jumping between completely different fields based on trivial factors like the whim of your boss (which will be just as present in the medical field), then you should probably rethink your reasons for choosing such professions... This is your lifetime job were talking about. In a large sense, your profession defines you.

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Lwoods
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby Lwoods » Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:50 am

mst wrote:You act as if completing a residency & med school + fellowship is going to be easier than big law... That can be just as soul crushing too, except you have to watch many people DIE and you spend many, many years of your life with little to no control of what you do.



+1 Took the words out of my mouth. Residents are typically grilled daily by their attendings (a process called "pimping"). They also work long hours in an emotionally exhausting environment. This is why at my job, when one of us makes a mistake, it's reassuring to say, "it's okay; it's not like we're saving lives here."


As for your question... BigLaw is, well, big. Some bosses will be nightmares, some will be awesome, and most will be somewhere in between. Same as just about every field. BigLaw is certainly fast-paced, but so is medicine and investment banking.

If you don't like bosses, I'm not sure law is a great career for you as it's a service career. You'll always be working for someone even if you hang out a shingle.

concurrent fork
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby concurrent fork » Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:00 am

LSHopeful2 wrote:If you can't stand having bosses then would biglaw not be a good fit? Thanks.


If you can't stand having bosses, then joining the workforce is probably not a good fit.

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vamedic03
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby vamedic03 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:00 am

LSHopeful2 wrote:Hi,
we know that if you attend a t20 school and get into biglaw that can be good. However, I wanted to know how much does life in biglaw suck as an associate since you are subject to the whim or caprice of your boss every moment? A judge in a YouTube video described the prospects of biglaw as just a soulless money making android industry where the goal is to just make more and lay people off, lol.

Seems like medicine is a much more vital and noble profession.

He also said that the people in biglaw don't care about you as a person as you are there to satisfy them period. Is biglaw really that depressing and stressful? Better put, how different is law practice than law school? If you can't stand having bosses then would biglaw not be a good fit? Thanks.

Oh yeah, he said that As a bigfirm attorney your job primarily
will be to help rich corporations get more wealth or keep their wealth. That's what you do in biglaw.
For the video just YouTube search: biglaw.

Your thoughts please?


Spare us the crap about medicine being vital or noble. Doctors work 60 hour weeks in order to make money. Medical practices are high volumes, in order to make money. Let me give you some observations about an academic medical center:

1) Interns and residents routinely work greater than 80 hours / week and routinely work greater than 30 hours straight. Programs flagrantly violate the 30 hour rule on a weekly basis.

2) Interns and residents are often, especially in surgical programs, treated like crap by their senior residents, fellows, and attendings. In turn, they often treat others in the hospital like crap. Interns and residents, especially in surgical programs, are berated for many things and are often publicly berated.

3) Surgeons, especially, will often treat all the staff that work with them like crap. I've seen bloody bandages thrown, various equipment thrown, and know of, though haven't seen, various incidents of scissors and the like being thrown.

4) There is still a relatively high degree of the attitude that publicly yelling and just generally throwing a temper tantrum in public is acceptable behavior.

Its worth adding that the only way that many practices stay profitable, i.e., family practices and internal medicine practices, are by maintaining high volumes of patients. Medicine is just as soul crushing as big law. And, your primary purpose in medicine is to generate a profit - either for the medical group you work for, your partnership, or a hospital.

Now, as to the law - you should realize that the vast majority of lawyers DO NOT WORK IN BIG LAW. Many lawyers have rich and satisfying jobs working in public interest and public service.

Finally, what's wrong with helping 'rich' corporations maintain their 'wealth or keep their wealth.' These are publicly traded corporations, it's positive for society as a whole for corporations to make money.

sissyclark
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby sissyclark » Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:08 am

Yes, it probably does suck. However, 99% of law students and their moms would still choose it over other options. Most of the people in my class who say "they never wanted biglaw anyways" tried so hard to get it, but didn't.

And I would venture to say that the reason most people choose isn't necessarily the money (although I'm sure that helps), it's probably for the exit options. It's easy to go from working in biglaw to working in the government/midsized firms/public interest/etc. I have friends in biglaw, and they get headhunters calling them constantly.

So yes, it probably sucks. But most would still take it as it's the best stepping stone, aside from a clerkship.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:35 am

LSHopeful2 wrote:Hi,
we know that if you attend a t20 school and get into biglaw that can be good. However, I wanted to know how much does life in biglaw suck as an associate since you are subject to the whim or caprice of your boss every moment? A judge in a YouTube video described the prospects of biglaw as just a soulless money making android industry where the goal is to just make more and lay people off, lol.

Seems like medicine is a much more vital and noble profession.

He also said that the people in biglaw don't care about you as a person as you are there to satisfy them period. Is biglaw really that depressing and stressful? Better put, how different is law practice than law school? If you can't stand having bosses then would biglaw not be a good fit? Thanks.

Oh yeah, he said that As a bigfirm attorney your job primarily
will be to help rich corporations get more wealth or keep their wealth. That's what you do in biglaw.
For the video just YouTube search: biglaw.

Your thoughts please?
My friends are residents and they say that the freedom to dictate your own schedule and work on the cases that interest you make the trade really liberating.

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nealric
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby nealric » Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:54 am

Oh yeah, he said that As a bigfirm attorney your job primarily
will be to help rich corporations get more wealth or keep their wealth. That's what you do in biglaw


Well yes. But corporations are just groups of people. Most people wouldn't have jobs without corporations making money. The corporation's shareholders aren't just wall-street "fat cats"- they are also your grandmother's retirement fund.

It's true that if you are a WTO protester type biglaw isn't for you. But if that's where you are politically, I'm not quite sure why you are even discussing the topic.

However, I wanted to know how much does life in biglaw suck as an associate since you are subject to the whim or caprice of your boss every moment?


It's no different from any other job where you have a boss. In some ways biglaw can be less oppressive, because you are not necessarily bound to work for a single partner. If one is seriously oppressive you can try to work more with other partners in many cases. Additionally, you are making enough money that if you really want to quit you don't have to worry about homelessness for doing so. The working stiff making 30k a year may not have the option of leaving until he/she finds a new job.

Seems like medicine is a much more vital and noble profession.


It's odd how medicine is fetishized on these boards. If you want to be a doctor, that's all very well and good. I'm sure there are some great med school forums out there.

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Lwoods
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby Lwoods » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:07 pm

nealric wrote:
Seems like medicine is a much more vital and noble profession.


It's odd how medicine is fetishized on these boards. If you want to be a doctor, that's all very well and good. I'm sure there are some great med school forums out there.


This seems to be the main one for pre-med folk, if anyone is interested: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/

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UnTouChablE
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby UnTouChablE » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:28 pm

You can't just come here and say 'vital and noble' profession. It's okay wen we aggrandize medicine, as a profession because we are trying to convince sum poor sap to stay away from law school.

In all honesty both professions are 'vital' and each is just as noble as the other.

But we have no jobs for you in law, so go study medicine and you will be ITE secure. (We would have all agreed if you had said that)

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paratactical
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby paratactical » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:36 pm

OP - I've worked as a biglaw paralegal for several years, including a year where I billed 2400 hours.

I've had partners treat me like shit and partners that treated me like gold, just like bosses in any other job I've had. The character of each biglaw firm is different. Some might fit you, some might not. However, if you can't get over the fact that you are not special or unique or if you need to be praised constantly for doing things that your superiors have spent thousands of hours practicing, you won't fit in well in any corporate or professional work place environment.

If you have specific questions about big law that aren't just aggrandizing another profession over one, let me know and I'll do my best to answer.

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BunkMoreland
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby BunkMoreland » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:50 pm

My thing is do you even have any idea what BIGLAW lawyers do? Do you really think they're just routinely crushing plaintiffs (who may be dirty anyway) and contribute nothing to society?

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Grizz
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby Grizz » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:15 pm

mst wrote:except you have to watch many people DIE


I was in EMS and I watched someone die. I was fine. It wasn't that bad, probably because we did the best we could and provided the best care in the situation.

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Grizz
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby Grizz » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:16 pm

BunkMoreland wrote:My thing is do you even have any idea what BIGLAW lawyers do? Do you really think they're just routinely crushing plaintiffs (who may be dirty anyway) and contribute nothing to society?


Bunk I don't want to contribute, I just want models and bottles. I was BORN and BRED for SUCCESS and ACHIEVEMENT.

Anonymous User
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:08 pm

I work in biglaw now, and while a night or two a week I don't leave until 11pm or so at night, it's not nearly as bad as you have described. You work with brilliant people in the field, make a decent living, and receive certain perks that you can't get working in less prestigious settings. My thought is that regardless of what anyone says about how bad they guestimate biglaw to be, everyone would gladly shoulder such a burden.

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JazzOne
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby JazzOne » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:21 pm

concurrent fork wrote:
LSHopeful2 wrote:If you can't stand having bosses then would biglaw not be a good fit? Thanks.


If you can't stand having bosses, then joining the workforce is probably not a good fit.

+1

Renzo
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby Renzo » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:19 pm

This is the stupidest thread ever. Everyone knows that law school is for kids who are two dumb at math and science to do anything else, like go to medical school, for instance.

Anonymous User
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:27 pm

You're barking up the wrong tree: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROlDmux7Tk4.

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mrmangs
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby mrmangs » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You're barking up the wrong tree: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROlDmux7Tk4.


Whoops, didn't mean to post anonymously.

Renzo
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby Renzo » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:33 pm

mrmangs wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You're barking up the wrong tree: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROlDmux7Tk4.


Whoops, didn't mean to post anonymously.

That was FUCKING AMAZING

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mrmangs
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby mrmangs » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:35 pm

Renzo wrote:
mrmangs wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You're barking up the wrong tree: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROlDmux7Tk4.


Whoops, didn't mean to post anonymously.

That was FUCKING AMAZING


Glad you liked it, :lol:. It is pretty hilarious.

There is website full of funny blog articles: http://www.leveragedsellout.com/2006/08 ... bigschmaw/. I linked the one on BigLaw. There was also a book released, but I haven't checked it out.

TigerBeer
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby TigerBeer » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:16 pm

the problems you identified are not remotely exclusive to big law. welcome to the american workforce, if you want to be treated like a human being, move to france.

solidsnake
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Re: Biglaw Concerns please

Postby solidsnake » Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:01 pm

LSHopeful2 wrote:Hi,

Seems like medicine is a much more vital and noble profession.

...
As a bigfirm attorney your job primarily
will be to help rich corporations get more wealth or keep their wealth. That's what you do in biglaw.


Your thoughts please?


and who do you think helps keep alive the people who help rich corporations get more wealth or keep more wealth? Doctors.




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