Bankruptcy

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A'nold
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Bankruptcy

Postby A'nold » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:41 pm

I interned with a PI/what they called "civil rights" firm last summer and it was awesome. However, it is uncertain whether I will land a 2L SA with that firm this time around.

I am taking bankruptcy this semester and have enjoyed it so much that I signed up for the bankruptcy clinic next quarter.

Questions:
What is there in the way of jobs for people interested in this field beyond (and including) straight ch. 7 consumer bankruptcies in a small firm?
What are the odds of getting a Bk clerkship after school if location does not matter, I get good references from a well-known bk professor, and I have, say, top 25% grades? No LR.
Are there any bk jobs in the government?
Anyone else interested in this field?

Thanks. :)

Anonymous User
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Re: Bankruptcy

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:58 pm

What is there in the way of jobs for people interested in this field beyond (and including) straight ch. 7 consumer bankruptcies in a small firm?


Not sure about ch.7 (it's generally in the realm of what many people consider shitlaw), but big ch.11 corporate restructurings are only at large law firms, which is most likely going to require a 2L SA at one of those firms with how the economy is now.

What are the odds of getting a Bk clerkship after school if location does not matter, I get good references from a well-known bk professor, and I have, say, top 25% grades? No LR.


No chance in hell (absent a lot of luck). BK courts never used to very competitive, at least not in the t14. E.g. at my school the highest GPA from 02-08 out of any student that clerked at a BK court was 3.6x (roughly top 15-20%) and no one had LR, and only 25% of all BK clerks had any journal experience. My grades were in the top 10%, no LR, moot court, took bankruptcy, Ch.11, and am taking secured transactions, and I applied to every single BK judge accepting applications in the country. I got one interview, which got canceled because the judge hired someone else. I don't know maybe I just had really bad luck though (although, everything just has gotten really competitive because there are just so many unemployed 3Ls now where they will jump at the shot of clerking for any federal judge since it's better than nothing and they think that it might get them back into the biglaw boat).

Are there any bk jobs in the government?


Not that I know of. Definitely not for ch.11.

Anyone else interested in this field?


I was heavily interested in the field, but I got shut out of 2L OCI last year (I'm a transfer), and got shut out of BK clerkships. I was only interested in ch.11 though, so I'm not really very interested in it anymore now that I know that the likelihood of getting into a big firms BK department is pretty slim.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Bankruptcy

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:15 pm

The only government job touching on bankruptcy would be US Trustee - which is part of the DOJ. Probably easier to get than other DOJ positions, but still incredibly tough (honestly, you probably won't get it with your stats - sorry Arrow).

Chapter 7 and 13 are in the PI realm of things.

Edit: As far as the field goes -

I am a pure-bore bankruptcy guy. I turned down an offer from my 2L SA firm to accept an offer with a different firm that has a more substantial debtor-side chapter 11 practice. A few things:

1.) There is a huge, huge difference between debtor-side and creditor-side Chapter 11. I found the creditor-side practice to be fairly dull and rote in comparison. Also, the creditor side will have less transactional/negotiation work than a debtor-side practice will. At the firm I'm going to, 2nd-year associates often lead negotiations with some of the smaller creditors (i.e., trade vendors,) and, in general, debtor side provides a more robust experience on all fronts. It's also much more lucrative - firms that focus on creditor-side BK (like my 2L SA firm) tend to have a BK practice as a way of serving its institutional bank clients. It's not a stand-alone revenue generator (unlike at the firm I ultimately went with, where BK accounts for a huge portion of the firm's revenue).

2.) The big bankruptcy shops will be utterly unimpressed by any bankruptcy clerkship outside of one or two in Chicago (Wedoff and one other person,) a few in the SDNY, and several in DA. Those are the only bankruptcy judges that do any significant Chapter 11 work, and those clerkships are extremely competitive.
Last edited by ToTransferOrNot on Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A'nold
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Re: Bankruptcy

Postby A'nold » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:32 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:The only government job touching on bankruptcy would be US Trustee - which is part of the DOJ. Probably easier to get than other DOJ positions, but still incredibly tough (honestly, you probably won't get it with your stats - sorry Arrow).

Chapter 7 and 13 are in the PI realm of things.


Thanks guys, that's what I figured. This is A'nold (don't know if I posted anon).

I'm completely naive when it comes to this field as I'd never really given it a though before this quarter. I wouldn't mind doing small law bk's, just wondering what else was out there. I still very much like PI and I hope to go solo one day, so this is all sort of just a question of what field will suit me best for the day I decide to take the plunge.

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A'nold
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Re: Bankruptcy

Postby A'nold » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:02 pm

Also- would externing with a bk judge be at all beneficial?

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Bankruptcy

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Are there any bk jobs in the government?


Not that I know of. Definitely not for ch.11.

I'm not entirely certain on how the U.S. Trustee's program works, but would one not get any beneficial experience here at all (even if not Chapter 11)? Or is getting hired straight-out just practically impossible?

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Bankruptcy

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:57 pm

FlightoftheEarls wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Are there any bk jobs in the government?


Not that I know of. Definitely not for ch.11.

I'm not entirely certain on how the U.S. Trustee's program works, but would one not get any beneficial experience here at all (even if not Chapter 11)? Or is getting hired straight-out just practically impossible?


U.S. Trustee does sometimes end up involved with Chapter 11 cases, but it's not the norm. This is partly because the SEC has begun to step in for some of the UST's old role of being ina fraud-oversight position in Ch. 11 cases.

That said, the UST does sometimes interact with appointed Examiners, and examiners are becoming more and more common in large Ch. 11 cases.

And getting experience with the UST/clerking for any BK judge anywhere would be excellent for people looking to do Ch. 7/Ch. 13 stuff.

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A'nold
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Re: Bankruptcy

Postby A'nold » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:24 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Are there any bk jobs in the government?


Not that I know of. Definitely not for ch.11.

I'm not entirely certain on how the U.S. Trustee's program works, but would one not get any beneficial experience here at all (even if not Chapter 11)? Or is getting hired straight-out just practically impossible?


U.S. Trustee does sometimes end up involved with Chapter 11 cases, but it's not the norm. This is partly because the SEC has begun to step in for some of the UST's old role of being ina fraud-oversight position in Ch. 11 cases.

That said, the UST does sometimes interact with appointed Examiners, and examiners are becoming more and more common in large Ch. 11 cases.

And getting experience with the UST/clerking for any BK judge anywhere would be excellent for people looking to do Ch. 7/Ch. 13 stuff.


Thanks. Do you think this applies to externships as well?




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