Value-Added of MBA/JD

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pandaexpress
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Value-Added of MBA/JD

Postby pandaexpress » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:14 am

Hi everyone,

I'm at a lower t-14 with a decent business school (think: not as bad as McDonough, but not as amazing as Kellogg). Okay, well that probably narrows it down. But whatever.

I'm considering an 3-year MBA/JD program at my school for a joint degree. I'm wondering the value-added of an MBA, given the following conditions:

1) I have no pre-law school WE (class of '10)
2) I would have to give up my 1L summer to complete the degree requirements
3) I want biglaw

Thoughts? (notwithstanding cost)

If you need more information in order to make an informed judgment, just post or PM me.

Thanks in advance!

bdubs
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Re: Value-Added of an MBA/JD

Postby bdubs » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:21 am

pandaexpress wrote:Hi everyone,

I'm at a lower t-14 with a decent business school (think: not as bad as McDonough, but not as amazing as Kellogg). Okay, well that probably narrows it down. But whatever.

I'm considering an 3-year MBA/JD program at my school for a joint degree. I'm wondering the value-added of an MBA, given the following conditions:

1) I have no pre-law school WE (class of '10)
2) I would have to give up my 1L summer to complete the degree requirements
3) I want biglaw

Thoughts? (notwithstanding cost)

If you need more information in order to make an informed judgment, just post or PM me.

Thanks in advance!


1) I dont know how certain you are of admission to the MBA program, but this will generally hurt you a lot.
2) As far as I can tell this is not a big deal ITE since you will probably not have a paid SA.
3) As far as I can tell biglaw has conflicting views on JD/MBA. They are wary of the level of commitment that many of the grads have, but they like the business knowledge and experience. It's hard to tell how much of the positive benefits you would get with no pre-law WE.

If costs are taken into account I doubt it is a good idea.

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IAFG
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Re: Value-Added of MBA/JD

Postby IAFG » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:25 am

any MBA program that would take you without WE is not worth it

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ResolutePear
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Re: Value-Added of MBA/JD

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:40 am

IAFG wrote:any MBA program that would take you without WE is not worth it


This. This. THIS.

There are exceptions imo, if you care let me divulge in this for a second:

I believe MIT's Sloan Business School encourages students to go UG -> MBA and it's pretty freaking good from what I heard. Obviously, it's very hard to get into and doesn't have a JD program attached, so a moot point.

Now, why do people get a JD/MBA? If you *really* need one, the company you eventually work for will sponsor you to go get your MBA. Not sure why they would unless they wanted to make you go take stuff like a Series 7 exam perhaps.

Either way, if you love the law - stick with that.

bdubs
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Re: Value-Added of MBA/JD

Postby bdubs » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:08 am

IAFG wrote:any MBA program that would take you without WE is not worth it


+1
OP: I assume you are referring to the Johnson GSM at Cornell and not Fuqua at Duke.

I am assuming that you want NYC biglaw and want to do corporate/transactional work. Johnson is not a particularly well regarded program on Wall Street, so I would steer clear of the program.

If I am off-base in my assumption then you can ignore this or correct my assumptions.

motiontodismiss
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Re: Value-Added of MBA/JD

Postby motiontodismiss » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:02 am

IAFG wrote:any MBA program that would take you without WE is not worth it


Plus you won't get in.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Value-Added of MBA/JD

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:08 pm

I know someone who managed to get in to the UChicago JD/MBA program (it's 4 years, not 3, here) with no prior work experience. I assumed s/he got in on the fact that s/he murdered law school, because Booth is normally hard to get in to.

s/he's going to be doing transactional work at a firm that s/he would have gotten hired at without the MBA. So, an extra year of school... for no real reason. I guess it might help her lateral in to a hedge fund or something like that later in life, but who really knows. I'm not sure that s/he is glad for the extra year of debt and lost earning potential, because it just doesn't seem to add much value to the law degree.

My main concern with OP's propositio would be the affect that not working a legal job during 1L summer would have on OCI. Sure, you have a good reason, but I'm not sure it would overcome the affect of having no legal job on your resume. That could be a total disaster.

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Seally
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Re: Value-Added of MBA/JD

Postby Seally » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:12 pm

A small handful of firms actually give signing Bonuses to JD/MBA grads, but since recession fucked everything up, it seems to be rare nowadays.

A 3 years JD/MBA ? It's already not worth a damn, why ?

A JD/MBA in 3 years: Killer one two punch, but no walk in the park. Although it doesn't specify this on the website, you will likely have to complete 80 credits in two years of JD in order to do the MBA in the following year. This means 12 courses in year 1, two courses that summer, 12 courses year two, and another 1 summer course after year two. Believe me, this is a boatload of class, and not for the faint of heart, most people doing it end up NOT having good enough stats for BigLaw or other competitive positions.

I say go for it if you're a natural hardworker and don't mind extra debt for the MBA, but doing both JD/MBA in 3 years, as I mentionned, may be brutal.

But if you think this will actually increase your chances in the Legal market, do not even think about doing it.

Cheers,

Seally

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ResolutePear
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Re: Value-Added of MBA/JD

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:17 pm

Seally wrote:A small handful of firms actually give signing Bonuses to JD/MBA grads, but since recession fucked everything up, it seems to be rare nowadays.

A 3 years JD/MBA ? It's already not worth a damn, why ?

A JD/MBA in 3 years: Killer one two punch, but no walk in the park. Although it doesn't specify this on the website, you will likely have to complete 80 credits in two years of JD in order to do the MBA in the following year. This means 12 courses in year 1, two courses that summer, 12 courses year two, and another 1 summer course after year two. Believe me, this is a boatload of class, and not for the faint of heart, most people doing it end up NOT having good enough stats for BigLaw or other competitive positions.

I say go for it if you're a natural hardworker and don't mind extra debt for the MBA, but doing both JD/MBA in 3 years, as I mentionned, may be brutal.

But if you think this will actually increase your chances in the Legal market, do not even think about doing it.

Cheers,

Seally


From what I see - the only JD/MBA program that's worth it is NW's because the program is so integrated from what I hear. As in, you can get into the law school with GMAT scores.

Having that particular JD/MBA combo, I wouldn't even app to law firms. I'd go straight for Fortune 500 companies and use the JD as leverage against others with just an MBA. That's my particular opinion on this, anyways.

Anonymous User
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Re: Value-Added of MBA/JD

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:31 pm

Being in the law program is a backdoor into the MBA program. They don't mind the lack of work experience nearly as much as people here are claiming, in large part because you're already there.

However, in recruiting you'll be at a disadvantage. Fortune 500 companies don't give a shit about your JD, they give a shit about your lack of a work experience. But consulting firms and investment banks will care. Most JD/MBAs that don't go into law currently end up there. If the market turns around by the time you graduate that may be different.


Bottom line, though, you're in better shape getting a joint JD/MBA than getting one and then the other.

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Seally
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Re: Value-Added of MBA/JD

Postby Seally » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:34 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
Seally wrote:A small handful of firms actually give signing Bonuses to JD/MBA grads, but since recession fucked everything up, it seems to be rare nowadays.

A 3 years JD/MBA ? It's already not worth a damn, why ?

A JD/MBA in 3 years: Killer one two punch, but no walk in the park. Although it doesn't specify this on the website, you will likely have to complete 80 credits in two years of JD in order to do the MBA in the following year. This means 12 courses in year 1, two courses that summer, 12 courses year two, and another 1 summer course after year two. Believe me, this is a boatload of class, and not for the faint of heart, most people doing it end up NOT having good enough stats for BigLaw or other competitive positions.

I say go for it if you're a natural hardworker and don't mind extra debt for the MBA, but doing both JD/MBA in 3 years, as I mentionned, may be brutal.

But if you think this will actually increase your chances in the Legal market, do not even think about doing it.

Cheers,

Seally


From what I see - the only JD/MBA program that's worth it is NW's because the program is so integrated from what I hear. As in, you can get into the law school with GMAT scores.

Having that particular JD/MBA combo, I wouldn't even app to law firms. I'd go straight for Fortune 500 companies and use the JD as leverage against others with just an MBA. That's my particular opinion on this, anyways.


I agree.

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underdawg
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Re: Value-Added of MBA/JD

Postby underdawg » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:55 am

not to mention OP only mentioned biglaw. for biglaw, value added = 0. for banks and shit, who really knows, but for biglaw, the value added is zero

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Re: Value-Added of MBA/JD

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:05 pm

What about someone who has no business background (non-business major in undergrad) but really wants to only do corporate law/business/transactional work? I am in my first year of law school at a southern top-50 school which also has a decent business school. I am contemplating taking the GMAT over the break and at least applying. Good idea?

bdubs
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Re: Value-Added of MBA/JD

Postby bdubs » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:10 pm

underdawg wrote:not to mention OP only mentioned biglaw. for biglaw, value added = 0. for banks and shit, who really knows, but for biglaw, the value added is zero


Disagree. It seems like top programs (particularly Northwestern) have better placement for their JD/MBA grads than for their JD only grads. My JD/MBA interviewer also said that it was viewed in a positive light (with relevant WE) by most of the top firms.

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IAFG
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Re: Value-Added of MBA/JD

Postby IAFG » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:46 pm

bdubs wrote:
underdawg wrote:not to mention OP only mentioned biglaw. for biglaw, value added = 0. for banks and shit, who really knows, but for biglaw, the value added is zero


Disagree. It seems like top programs (particularly Northwestern) have better placement for their JD/MBA grads than for their JD only grads. My JD/MBA interviewer also said that it was viewed in a positive light (with relevant WE) by most of the top firms.

Yes because there is no way having the credentials to get into Kellogg would skew the data

bdubs
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Re: Value-Added of MBA/JD

Postby bdubs » Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:19 pm

IAFG wrote:
bdubs wrote:
underdawg wrote:not to mention OP only mentioned biglaw. for biglaw, value added = 0. for banks and shit, who really knows, but for biglaw, the value added is zero


Disagree. It seems like top programs (particularly Northwestern) have better placement for their JD/MBA grads than for their JD only grads. My JD/MBA interviewer also said that it was viewed in a positive light (with relevant WE) by most of the top firms.

Yes because there is no way having the credentials to get into Kellogg would skew the data


Granted. There is no way to account for selection bias. The fact remains that those well qualified candidates decided to do a JD/MBA rather than just a JD.

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IAFG
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Re: Value-Added of MBA/JD

Postby IAFG » Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:37 pm

bdubs wrote:
IAFG wrote:
bdubs wrote:
underdawg wrote:not to mention OP only mentioned biglaw. for biglaw, value added = 0. for banks and shit, who really knows, but for biglaw, the value added is zero


Disagree. It seems like top programs (particularly Northwestern) have better placement for their JD/MBA grads than for their JD only grads. My JD/MBA interviewer also said that it was viewed in a positive light (with relevant WE) by most of the top firms.

Yes because there is no way having the credentials to get into Kellogg would skew the data


Granted. There is no way to account for selection bias. The fact remains that those well qualified candidates decided to do a JD/MBA rather than just a JD.

In the case of NU, it is more like they decided to do a JD/MBA instead of an MBA and have lots of good options through MBA recruiting. Very different than JDs trying to resume-pad.

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Seally
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Re: Value-Added of MBA/JD

Postby Seally » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:39 pm

bdubs wrote:
underdawg wrote:not to mention OP only mentioned biglaw. for biglaw, value added = 0. for banks and shit, who really knows, but for biglaw, the value added is zero


Disagree. It seems like top programs (particularly Northwestern) have better placement for their JD/MBA grads than for their JD only grads. My JD/MBA interviewer also said that it was viewed in a positive light (with relevant WE) by most of the top firms.



Depends what you look at, most JDs aim at Attorney positions at firms, small or large.

Most people who do a JD/MBA have their mind set on Business positions, trust me, McKinsey, Bain, BCG etc look at them for Consulting positions, these grads have a lot of mobility and do not care about BigLaw, especially those who did it in 3 years, look above for the reason.
I think the only place in Business where grads straight out Law School cannot access is Investment Banking, simply because the candidate would be stuck somewhere between Analyst and Associate.

JD/MBA Placement may be better straight out Law School, but you can't really tell if most of this placement stat had BigLaw insight.

To summarize it:

Do the JD if you want to be an Attorney, either for Firms, Government, NGOs, JAG, Inhouse.

Do the JD/MBA if you don't have a Business degree and wish to pursue more competitive Business positions + with Inhouse Counsel.




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