Art Law

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bnc2010
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Art Law

Postby bnc2010 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:04 am

I haven't started law school yet, but I know that I am interested in art law. Can anyone tell me how I can prepare for this field (such as where I should intern or part-time jobs that can prepare me). Any advice would be helpful. Thank you.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Art Law

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:09 am

What is "art law"?

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JazzOne
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Re: Art Law

Postby JazzOne » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:22 am

I'm interested in this too. Also, does anyone know how I can break into war law?

Kaitlyn
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Re: Art Law

Postby Kaitlyn » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:29 am

Um, I'm just a lowly 0L, so I'm not really qualified to give "advice," but isn't Art Law, in most cases, just a form of intellectual property law?

http://www.artlawgroup.com/

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JazzOne
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Re: Art Law

Postby JazzOne » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:32 am

Kaitlyn wrote:Um, I'm just a lowly 0L, so I'm not really qualified to give "advice," but isn't Art Law, in most cases, just a form of intellectual property law?

http://www.artlawgroup.com/

Well, that's interesting. It looks like they do some commercial stuff and litigation too.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Art Law

Postby Aqualibrium » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:32 am

bnc2010 wrote:I haven't started law school yet, but I know that I am interested in art law. Can anyone tell me how I can prepare for this field (such as where I should intern or part-time jobs that can prepare me). Any advice would be helpful. Thank you.



I'm not sure if there really is a specific field for this...if anything, I'd say you might run into stuff like that with tax work. This summer, during my rotation with the tax department at my firm, I had a project dealing with the purchase of a six figure work of art. It was pretty cool, trying to ascertain the real value of the artist's previous works, how much the client could expect the work to appreciate in value, whether to purchase it personally or through the client's foundation, whether to loan it to a museum and then donate it at what would presumably be a much higher value, etc...

bnc2010
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Re: Art Law

Postby bnc2010 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:59 am

vanwinkle wrote:What is "art law"?


Offer legal representation to museums, arts organizations, and/or individual artists; serve as legal consultant (and possibly courtroom representative) in cases dealing with the repatriation of artwork stolen during wars; NAGRPA issues; copyright issues; contracts for public works of art; etc (--LinkRemoved--)

It's still a growing field.

2LLLL
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Re: Art Law

Postby 2LLLL » Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:39 am

If you haven't started school yet, then I would recommend doing some serious research to identify practitioners in the art law field. Reach out to them and network- tell them about how interested in what they do, how you want advice on how to break into the field, etc... Develop a relationship and try to maintain that throughout law school.

My guess would be that firms specializing in art law would be boutiques, or even just a law office of one or two attorneys. These firms will be unlikely to hire someone straight out of law school. However, it is likely that some BigLaw shops may provide art-related services, even if just as a niche to satisfy their billionaire PE clients. A quick Google search indicates that Fulbright & Jaworski advertises a practice in this area. Aim for these firms in 2L OCI, but definitely do not go into your interviews gunning for the art law practice. Maybe mention that you would love the opportunity to work on a project or two with that partner, but don't give the impression that art law is the only reason you're interested in the firm.

Anonymous User
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Re: Art Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:56 pm

Art Law exists, though how one breaks into it is largely by luck and not necessarily by skill. In terms of curriculum, you should be well versed in corporate law and copyright law. You should also take an "art law" course if your school has one, and try in general to network with intellectual property attorneys. You should go to the best law school you get into.

In terms of the type of work, it'll vary. You could be handling copyright disputes, but you could also be negotiating deals for various paintings, arbitrating contractual disputes between artists, etc. There aren't many "boutiques" specializing in "art law." If anything, typical "art law" disputes arise between individual artists and massive corporations, the latter of which hire big firms, and the former of which do not provide the sort of money needed to sustain a high priced boutique. As such, I know one place called Boyd Level. But that firm typically represents emerging artists. Another organization is the Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts. Again, these places gear you up more for the public interest side of art law, representing individual artists in disputes or due diligence or whatever.

On the other side, if you want to become GC for the Met or the Guggenheim or whatever, it's more about who you know and pedigree. Working for a firm for whom those museums are clients helps, but also just putting yourself out there and networking will be crucial. One very prominent art lawyer I know tells me that if you get your name out there enough, you should be able to find something.

The Met and the Guggenheim offer internships for law students. You might also consider doing work for some of the auction houses (Sothebys, Christies). There are many opportunities to get your foot in the door. Case in point, Columbia Law School has a relationship with the Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts, allowing students to intern there. Cool stuff.

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nealric
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Re: Art Law

Postby nealric » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:57 pm

I suggest you call up each of the six attorneys in the country who specialize in art law and talk to them.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Art Law

Postby prezidentv8 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:59 pm

We have a class called Art Law at Duke, and a professor named Arti (http://www.law.duke.edu/fac/rai/). No relation, to my knowledge.

dakatz
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Re: Art Law

Postby dakatz » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:02 pm

Is art law like bird law?

My school has an art law society, so I guess there must be something to it. Or perhaps it could be a bunch of kids who get together and talk about the relationship between art and law without any knowledge of what a real "art lawyer" does, or any knowledge of how to secure a job in this field.

lolol10
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Re: Art Law

Postby lolol10 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:03 pm

i believe the proper classification is IP law. within IP there is a genre of law called entertainment law. if i had to guess, i would say art law falls under this category. art law LOLOLzzz

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JazzOne
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Re: Art Law

Postby JazzOne » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:04 pm

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Last edited by JazzOne on Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JazzOne
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Re: Art Law

Postby JazzOne » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:04 pm

dakatz wrote:Is art law like bird law?

My school has an art law society, so I guess there must be something to it. Or perhaps it could be a bunch of kids who get together and talk about the relationship between art and law without any knowledge of what a real "art lawyer" does, or any knowledge of how to secure a job in this field.

Does OP even KNOW any art lawyers? He has NO idea what he's getting into.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Art Law

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:05 pm

bnc2010 wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:What is "art law"?

Offer legal representation to museums, arts organizations, and/or individual artists; serve as legal consultant (and possibly courtroom representative) in cases dealing with the repatriation of artwork stolen during wars; NAGRPA issues; copyright issues; contracts for public works of art; etc (--LinkRemoved--)

It's still a growing field.

So, contract and IP litigation, some corporate transactional work, and general legal services, bundled together and offered to a specific area. I think there's a couple ways this plays out:

1) Non-profit orgs that can't afford full time counsel might receive pro bono help from law firms that specialize in these fields. Getting involved in a law firm that does contract and IP lit (which is most of them) and then doing pro bono work could be a way to make contacts with these orgs and get your foot in the door. Even if they're not hiring, the art trade will be small enough that they might know people who can, and recommend you when the time comes.

2) If these orgs can afford in-house counsel they're likely to hire experienced people with solid credentials. That also involves law firm experience, most likely.

3) Boutiques tend not to hire fresh law grads and want people with experience, so again, law firm.

Long story short, I think your short-term goals would be 1) contract/IP-focused BigLaw and 2) networking to build connections you can use to transition to this work more specifically.

Oh, and 3) having realistic expectations. Especially now with jobs so scarce it's hard to go into law school and get to do a highly specialized thing when you graduate. This isn't a bad thing to aim for, but it shouldn't be your only reason for going to law school, unless you know someone ready to hire you as soon as you get out.

bnc2010
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Re: Art Law

Postby bnc2010 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:14 pm

lolol10 wrote:i believe the proper classification is IP law. within IP there is a genre of law called entertainment law. if i had to guess, i would say art law falls under this category. art law LOLOLzzz



I don't really understand what you find so funny about the term "art law". Many law schools offer courses in this field.

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JazzOne
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Re: Art Law

Postby JazzOne » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:20 pm

bnc2010 wrote:
lolol10 wrote:i believe the proper classification is IP law. within IP there is a genre of law called entertainment law. if i had to guess, i would say art law falls under this category. art law LOLOLzzz



I don't really understand what you find so funny about the term "art law". Many law schools offer courses in this field.

TBF, many law schools offer courses in Shakespeare and the Law too.

dakatz
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Re: Art Law

Postby dakatz » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:21 pm

OP, just do some internet searches, and see what you can find. Get in contact with some people from the field and find out what they do and how they got to where they are. If you haven't yet tried this, you would be amazed how happy most lawyers are to talk about what they do (after all, talking if often what they do best).

I am interested in another fairly obscure field (though certainly not as obscure as art law). I worked in hotels for awhile and love the business so I contemplated hotel/hospitality law. I went online, found listings of lawyers who work in this area, sent out some emails, and had numerous people happy to chat with me about what they do and what the field entails. By doing this, you not only get the knowledge you need, but you make contacts who see your enthusiasm for a particular area of specialty. Never underestimate contacts.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Art Law

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:25 pm

bnc2010 wrote:
lolol10 wrote:i believe the proper classification is IP law. within IP there is a genre of law called entertainment law. if i had to guess, i would say art law falls under this category. art law LOLOLzzz

I don't really understand what you find so funny about the term "art law". Many law schools offer courses in this field.

To be fair, you're talking about a legal area that's such a small niche it barely exists in the realm of legal employment discussion. You're basically asking which direction to swim the Atlantic if you want to arrive at the Brighton Marina. Even if it turns out you can swim far enough to make it, you can't be sure you'll arrive exactly where you wanted.

Renzo
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Re: Art Law

Postby Renzo » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:26 pm

Kaitlyn wrote:Um, I'm just a lowly 0L, so I'm not really qualified to give "advice," but isn't Art Law, in most cases, just a form of intellectual property law?

http://www.artlawgroup.com/

From the "representative matters" area of that website, it appears that "art law"="general commercial law"

floppymex
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Re: Art Law

Postby floppymex » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:31 pm

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Last edited by floppymex on Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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FlanAl
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Re: Art Law

Postby FlanAl » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:33 pm

In house for Sotheby's or Christie's. A friend of a friend of a friend is getting her law degree after working for Sotheby's to try and achieve this end. I'd say like other types of IP you probably need to at least have a MA in Art History and work experience in the field, without that you are probably out of luck.

Anonymous User
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Re: Art Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:20 pm

Just because "art law" comprises legal practice that involves very typical corporate attorney work, that doesn't mean that it's not a legitimate particular field with its own issues. Similarly, IP litigators do the same work as general commercial litigators; it's just the content that's different. Yet, we have no issue differentiating between IP litigation and general commercial litigation. I think denigrating the field is silly, but it seems incredibly common for people on this board unjustifiably to look down on certain things and dismiss others.

Art law is a growing field. The organizations and practices that exist attest to this. Its size doesn't have much to do with lack of legal practice skill. Rather, it's a function of the size of the community and volume of work. Despite its niche status, art law is very much its own discipline.

Anonymous User
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Re: Art Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:23 pm

I agree...wouldn't we just be talking about all types of legal work that services artists/buyers/sellers/museums of art? I would think it is definitely a legitimate practice since art can be so valuable and art museums hold tons and tons of assets in the form of art.

However, I would say that having a practice where you only do this type of work is probably really rare and hard to find, and I would say you should go after internships like mad (summer and while in school) because I would guess that these types of positions are few and far between...I'm thinking like being the general council of a big art museum and stuff like that.




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