So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

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BarbellDreams
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So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby BarbellDreams » Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:18 pm

Just got back from career services which basically told me that I am on my own for finding internships and I should mass mail every firm/PI job/Government position until I get an interview. They literally said the most they can do is give me some names of people who were alums and work in a certain profession but have no idea how I should use them or where I should go. I am freaking out, and finals haven't even started.

1. I have NO legal connections at all. None.
2. My networking I have done got me an email of a friend who is a judge who may consider getting a clerk. Other than that I plan on emailing the few DAs that career services gave me the emails of to see if they would be willing to meet with me to talk about their profession. Its not like they are the ones doing the hiring so even if they agree, not sure where I go after the "What is your typical work day? How did you get into this profession? Etc."
3. I knew PI jobs weren't being handed out in this economy, but I thought it would be a hell of a lot easier than firm work to get. I just want to be a DA. Thats all. What the hell do I do? People keep saying networking is everything but its easier said than done. People to network with dont just show up offering you jobs.

Thoughts? Outside of the mass mailing that most people strike out on, what should I do?

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npe
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby npe » Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:29 pm

1. Go to the websites of DA's offices in major cities.
2. Look around for "Employment" or similar sections.
...a. If there is a posting for an internship, apply for it.
...b. If there's not a posting for an internship, find the contact information for the other job postings and send an e-mail asking if they accept summer interns.
3. Repeat.

Sup Kid
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby Sup Kid » Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:57 pm

U.S. Attorney's Offices all take interns, and it was a GREAT experience for a 1L summer. Aim for SDNY or DC, but apply anywhere you'd be willing to live. (Note: many also hire in January at OCI-like public interest career fairs, so keep your eyes out for those.)

USAOs don't hire straight from law school, so working there 1L summer gives you good experience, and the chance to intern at a DA's office 2L summer (with the possibility of getting an offer for post-graduation employment).

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worldtraveler
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby worldtraveler » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:29 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Just got back from career services which basically told me that I am on my own for finding internships and I should mass mail every firm/PI job/Government position until I get an interview. They literally said the most they can do is give me some names of people who were alums and work in a certain profession but have no idea how I should use them or where I should go. I am freaking out, and finals haven't even started.

1. I have NO legal connections at all. None.
2. My networking I have done got me an email of a friend who is a judge who may consider getting a clerk. Other than that I plan on emailing the few DAs that career services gave me the emails of to see if they would be willing to meet with me to talk about their profession. Its not like they are the ones doing the hiring so even if they agree, not sure where I go after the "What is your typical work day? How did you get into this profession? Etc."
3. I knew PI jobs weren't being handed out in this economy, but I thought it would be a hell of a lot easier than firm work to get. I just want to be a DA. Thats all. What the hell do I do? People keep saying networking is everything but its easier said than done. People to network with dont just show up offering you jobs.

Thoughts? Outside of the mass mailing that most people strike out on, what should I do?


What did you expect them to do for you? Have you ever applied to jobs before?

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RVP11
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby RVP11 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:18 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:1. I have NO legal connections at all. None.


Why would you go to law school if you didn't know any lawyers? That's...risky.

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patrickd139
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby patrickd139 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:21 pm

RVP11 wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:1. I have NO legal connections at all. None.


Why would you go to law school if you didn't know any lawyers? That's...risky.

Disagree. OP: study your ass off for finals. You don't need to be worrying about this till the break.

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JazzOne
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby JazzOne » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:26 pm

RVP11 wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:1. I have NO legal connections at all. None.


Why would you go to law school if you didn't know any lawyers? That's...risky.

Yeah, I didn't realize how many of my classmates would have family connections. Even if they don't tap those connections directly for a job, it sure is nice to be able to bounce ideas off your folks so they can explain the difference between litigation and transactional work before you get to an interview.

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RVP11
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby RVP11 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:52 pm

JazzOne wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:1. I have NO legal connections at all. None.


Why would you go to law school if you didn't know any lawyers? That's...risky.

Yeah, I didn't realize how many of my classmates would have family connections. Even if they don't tap those connections directly for a job, it sure is nice to be able to bounce ideas off your folks so they can explain the difference between litigation and transactional work before you get to an interview.


Yeah, though I think that can be remedied by research.

What's risky is you don't know what the legal profession is all about. You probably don't know what lawyers actually do or what traits make them successful. You're likely laying out $100k+ over 3 years for something you don't even know if you're suited for, yet.

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RVP11
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby RVP11 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:53 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:1. I have NO legal connections at all. None.


Why would you go to law school if you didn't know any lawyers? That's...risky.

Disagree.


Care to elaborate?

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JazzOne
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby JazzOne » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:57 pm

RVP11 wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:1. I have NO legal connections at all. None.


Why would you go to law school if you didn't know any lawyers? That's...risky.

Yeah, I didn't realize how many of my classmates would have family connections. Even if they don't tap those connections directly for a job, it sure is nice to be able to bounce ideas off your folks so they can explain the difference between litigation and transactional work before you get to an interview.


Yeah, though I think that can be remedied by research.

What's risky is you don't know what the legal profession is all about. You probably don't know what lawyers actually do or what traits make them successful. You're likely laying out $100k+ over 3 years for something you don't even know if you're suited for, yet.

Yes, my example was overly simplistic. But I have a friend on law review, and I was chatting with him during evidence class the other day. It turns out that both his parents are biglaw attorneys. It seems like OCI would be a lot less scary if you could just chat with your parents about which firms are doing what.

Aqualibrium
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby Aqualibrium » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:46 am

I don't think knowing lawyers matters at all. I didn't know any US educated lawyers prior to law school. I networked, and met a bunch during school though. Lawyers like to talk, it's not a big deal at all to not know any lawyers prior to law school.

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patrickd139
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby patrickd139 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:30 pm

RVP11 wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
RVP11 wrote:Why would you go to law school if you didn't know any lawyers? That's...risky.

Disagree.

Care to elaborate?

A qualified "disagree," I guess. It's like the age-old "necessary v. sufficient" argument. Does it help? Arguably. Legal practice isn't some caste-like, insiders club. I go to law school with plenty of people who have never worked in a law office, don't know any lawyers well, and are still landing SA and PI internships left and right. I don't think it's absolutely necessary to know lawyers prior to going to law school any more than it's necessary to know accountants before getting your BBA.

If it's about access to jobs, knowing attorneys will not overcome having crappy grades. OTOH, having great grades can easily overcome not knowing anyone, because the firms will come to you.

As far as perspective goes (and, admittedly, I don't have anything close to empirical data on this or anything), same argument goes here. You can learn what you need to succeed in law school during law school. Do well there, and you'll get picked up by a firm / organization / whatever that will train you and give you the tools you need to succeed in practice.

I can, however, see the arguments on the other side. If you walk into law school knowing, for example, what the hell an appellate decision is v. a trial transcript and subsequent order, or have some sort of familiarity with the jargon, then you'll have some perspective that other students don't. That said, other smart students can pick up on that within about 2 hours of law school. Sure, it can help networking, but only if lawyers you know think highly of you and have connections and weight to get you a job. This also only usually works when the attorneys you know are practicing in an area that interests you.

It can also help to bounce ideas off of your attorney acquaintances, if you're that lucky. But as the son of two attorneys, and the friend of many more attorneys, I've never really taken advantage of this. Maybe the biggest boon I can think of is that if you graduate and start practicing, and if you've convinced people you're competent, then, under certain circumstances, your contacts might help you fight your way up the learning curve. But again, being intelligent, open-minded, and opportunistic can get you up the curve, too.

In all, and I'm sure others will disagree, which is fine, I consider it a push at best. Hardly "risky," though.

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RVP11
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby RVP11 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:04 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
RVP11 wrote:Why would you go to law school if you didn't know any lawyers? That's...risky.

Disagree.

Care to elaborate?

A qualified "disagree," I guess. It's like the age-old "necessary v. sufficient" argument. Does it help? Arguably. Legal practice isn't some caste-like, insiders club. I go to law school with plenty of people who have never worked in a law office, don't know any lawyers well, and are still landing SA and PI internships left and right. I don't think it's absolutely necessary to know lawyers prior to going to law school any more than it's necessary to know accountants before getting your BBA.

If it's about access to jobs, knowing attorneys will not overcome having crappy grades. OTOH, having great grades can easily overcome not knowing anyone, because the firms will come to you.

As far as perspective goes (and, admittedly, I don't have anything close to empirical data on this or anything), same argument goes here. You can learn what you need to succeed in law school during law school. Do well there, and you'll get picked up by a firm / organization / whatever that will train you and give you the tools you need to succeed in practice.

I can, however, see the arguments on the other side. If you walk into law school knowing, for example, what the hell an appellate decision is v. a trial transcript and subsequent order, or have some sort of familiarity with the jargon, then you'll have some perspective that other students don't. That said, other smart students can pick up on that within about 2 hours of law school. Sure, it can help networking, but only if lawyers you know think highly of you and have connections and weight to get you a job. This also only usually works when the attorneys you know are practicing in an area that interests you.

It can also help to bounce ideas off of your attorney acquaintances, if you're that lucky. But as the son of two attorneys, and the friend of many more attorneys, I've never really taken advantage of this. Maybe the biggest boon I can think of is that if you graduate and start practicing, and if you've convinced people you're competent, then, under certain circumstances, your contacts might help you fight your way up the learning curve. But again, being intelligent, open-minded, and opportunistic can get you up the curve, too.

In all, and I'm sure others will disagree, which is fine, I consider it a push at best. Hardly "risky," though.


I wasn't talking about the risk of not being a good law student, or the risk of not getting a good job.

I was talking about the risk of being stuck in a profession that you hate and so deep in debt that you can't afford to get out. Now, certainly even many people whose parents are lawyers neglect to do their due diligence and end up in that position. But if you don't know ANY lawyers, I don't understand how you can really know what legal practice is going to be like.

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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby Aqualibrium » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:12 pm

RVP11 wrote: But if you don't know ANY lawyers, I don't understand how you can really know what legal practice is going to be like.



How many current law students know what legal practice is truly going to be like?

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RVP11
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby RVP11 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:20 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:
RVP11 wrote: But if you don't know ANY lawyers, I don't understand how you can really know what legal practice is going to be like.



How many current law students know what legal practice is truly going to be like?


A lot more than you'd think. I'd estimate at least 25% of my classmates have a parent, close relative, or family friend who's a lawyer and only came to law school because they could seem themselves doing the same thing.

But, yes, a lot of people take stupid risks.

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patrickd139
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby patrickd139 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:28 pm

I wasn't talking about the risk of not being a good law student, or the risk of not getting a good job.

I was talking about the risk of being stuck in a profession that you hate and so deep in debt that you can't afford to get out. Now, certainly even many people whose parents are lawyers neglect to do their due diligence and end up in that position. But if you don't know ANY lawyers, I don't understand how you can really know what legal practice is going to be like.

Eh, fair enough. Less of a concern than getting an M.D. or another similarly limited-use degree, but a concern nonetheless.

Also, because I can't resist the urge to be a douchebag and bring up arguments not raised on appeal: not knowing attorneys personally ≠ not knowing what attorneys do.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:37 pm

Also, because I can't resist the urge to be a douchebag and bring up arguments not raised on appeal: not knowing attorneys personally ≠ not knowing what attorneys do.


This.

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dood
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby dood » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:43 pm

...
Last edited by dood on Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RVP11
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby RVP11 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:44 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
Also, because I can't resist the urge to be a douchebag and bring up arguments not raised on appeal: not knowing attorneys personally ≠ not knowing what attorneys do.


This.


I have trouble understanding how someone can gain intimate knowledge on what attorneys do without, you know, meeting one.

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patrickd139
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby patrickd139 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:43 pm

Also, because I can't resist the urge to be a douchebag and bring up arguments not raised on appeal: not knowing attorneys personally ≠ not knowing what attorneys do.


This.


I have trouble understanding how someone can gain intimate knowledge on what attorneys do without, you know, meeting one.

Exactly what "intimate knowledge" do you suppose should be attained by talking to these attorneys?

Transactional Version
Pre-Lawl student: So, Mrs. BigLawyer, what exactly is it that you do?
Mrs. BL: I sit in my office downtown, starting at a computer all day reviewing documents and putting deals together.
Pre-Lawl: Wait, what does your secretary do?
Mrs. BL: He sits in front of a computer all day reviewing documents and helping me put deals together.
Pre-Lawl: ...

Litigation Version
Pre-Lawl student: So, Mr. BigLawyer, what exactly is it that you do?
Mr. BL: I sit in my office downtown, staring at a computer all day reviewing documents and drafting research memos that will never get used.
Pre-Lawl: What does your paralegal do?
Mr. BL: She sits in front of a computer all day reviewing documents and helping me do research.
Pre-Lawl: So when you go to court,...
Mr. BL: [cuts off Pre-Lawl] I don't go to court.
Pre-Lawl: ...

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IAFG
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby IAFG » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:47 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:2. My networking I have done got me an email of a friend who is a judge who may consider getting a clerk.

Okay so email the judge, say you are hoping to stay in [Market] and ask him for suggestions on where to apply. this is networking.

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JazzOne
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby JazzOne » Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:18 pm

IAFG wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:2. My networking I have done got me an email of a friend who is a judge who may consider getting a clerk.

Okay so email the judge, say you are hoping to stay in [Market] and ask him for suggestions on where to apply. this is networking.

lol

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IAFG
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby IAFG » Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:30 pm

JazzOne wrote:
IAFG wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:2. My networking I have done got me an email of a friend who is a judge who may consider getting a clerk.

Okay so email the judge, say you are hoping to stay in [Market] and ask him for suggestions on where to apply. this is networking.

lol

:?: getting a family friend to take pity on me is my #1 most successful way in finding a job

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JazzOne
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby JazzOne » Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:32 pm

IAFG wrote: :?: getting a family friend to take pity on me is my #1 most successful way in finding a job

I'm laughing that you're holding someone's hand on the internet. You can do it!!!

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IAFG
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Re: So I have no idea about how to start looking for 1L summer.

Postby IAFG » Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:34 pm

JazzOne wrote:
IAFG wrote: :?: getting a family friend to take pity on me is my #1 most successful way in finding a job

I'm laughing that you're holding someone's hand on the internet. You can do it!!!

what can i say, fucking maternal instinct




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