Legal employment outlook based on LST data

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bdubs
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Legal employment outlook based on LST data

Postby bdubs » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:44 pm

Just saw a link to the self-reported LST employment and salary data. Why is everyone on this forum so dour about legal employment when the numbers on there look pretty good?

Even Vanderbilt, which is where LST was born, looks really good. Why are these guys complaining if they are in the <2% of people who don't get good jobs?

--LinkRemoved--

Not saying that TTT schools aren't a terrible place to be graduating from these days, but all of the negativity surrounding schools in the T14 or T20 seems over-hyped.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Legal employment outlook based on LST data

Postby Big Shrimpin » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:59 pm

bdubs wrote:Just saw a link to the self-reported LST employment and salary data. Why is everyone on this forum so dour about legal employment when the numbers on there look pretty good?


First to say that data is for CO 2007 and 2008...e.g. people who SA'ed in 2006/2007 (aka the "boomtimes"). Now, unfortunately, is not a "boomtime."

amirite?

edit: Because you're posting this in the employment forum, I have to ask - do you live under a rock?

floppymex
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Re: Legal employment outlook based on LST data

Postby floppymex » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:02 pm

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Last edited by floppymex on Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bdubs
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Re: Legal employment outlook based on LST data

Postby bdubs » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:13 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:
bdubs wrote:Just saw a link to the self-reported LST employment and salary data. Why is everyone on this forum so dour about legal employment when the numbers on there look pretty good?


First to say that data is for CO 2007 and 2008...e.g. people who SA'ed in 2006/2007 (aka the "boomtimes"). Now, unfortunately, is not a "boomtime."

amirite?

edit: Because you're posting this in the employment forum, I have to ask - do you live under a rock?


Why bother posting 2008 numbers if they are unrepresentative of their plight? 2009 grads have been out 9 months already, why aren't those stats up?

I know the whole point of LST is that school provided stats are not meaningful, but Vandy already has stats up regarding their class of 2010's jobs accepted at graduation rate (97%).

http://law.vanderbilt.edu/employers-cs/ ... index.aspx
Last edited by bdubs on Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Legal employment outlook based on LST data

Postby jenesaislaw » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:15 pm

bdubs wrote:Just saw a link to the self-reported LST employment and salary data. Why is everyone on this forum so dour about legal employment when the numbers on there look pretty good?

Even Vanderbilt, which is where LST was born, looks really good. Why are these guys complaining if they are in the <2% of people who don't get good jobs?

--LinkRemoved--

Not saying that TTT schools aren't a terrible place to be graduating from these days, but all of the negativity surrounding schools in the T14 or T20 seems over-hyped.


I think I should add some qualifiers up front. Some of it is pretty self-explanatory, of course, but some of it might not be especially to first-time readers or people living under rocks.

I'll try to get a short blurb up on the clearinghouse home page to ground the information a bit. Overall the point is to show that the salary figures are not very meaingful because they often represent so few graduates in a class. This is a problem with the information, not a problem with the quality of outcomes. What this information does, however, is provide room for prospectives to compare relative performance a bit easier. Now 160k median at NYLS and NYU are not on the same footing.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Legal employment outlook based on LST data

Postby jenesaislaw » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:18 pm

bdubs wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:
bdubs wrote:Just saw a link to the self-reported LST employment and salary data. Why is everyone on this forum so dour about legal employment when the numbers on there look pretty good?


First to say that data is for CO 2007 and 2008...e.g. people who SA'ed in 2006/2007 (aka the "boomtimes"). Now, unfortunately, is not a "boomtime."

amirite?

edit: Because you're posting this in the employment forum, I have to ask - do you live under a rock?


Why bother posting 2008 numbers if they are unrepresentative of their plight? 2009 grads have been out 9 months already, why aren't those stats up?

I know the whole point of LST is that school provided stats are not meaningful, but Vandy already has stats up regarding their class of 2010's jobs accepted at graduation rate (97%).

http://law.vanderbilt.edu/employers-cs/ ... index.aspx


Vanderbilt is not the problem, although they could also do even better. They are far more transparent than the norm (and are among the most, if not the most, transparent law schools).

Read the page on LST's Origins: --LinkRemoved--
Last edited by jenesaislaw on Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Legal employment outlook based on LST data

Postby Big Shrimpin » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:24 pm

bdubs wrote:Why bother posting 2008 numbers if they are unrepresentative of their plight? 2009 grads have been out 9 months already, why aren't those stats up?

I know the whole point of LST is that school provided stats are not meaningful, but Vandy already has stats up regarding their class of 2010's jobs accepted at graduation rate (97%).

http://law.vanderbilt.edu/employers-cs/ ... index.aspx


Because it's probably the only complete data set they've got.

LST is a work in progress - they're not done. I'd wager a bet that 2009/2010 will be a much less-rosy picture (if you pick up the AmLaw or NLJ journals, you'd see that almost daily there are articles about how atrocious legal hiring has been). Moreover, 2009 will still reflect those who were hired in the fall of 2007 (boomtime). 2010 will reflect hiring from the late-summer of 2008 which was during the collapse but before most firms took major steps to avert damage. 2011 will reflect hiring from the hellish existence that was 2009.

"CO 20xx data" is a lagging metric. Unless you infer that - despite massive layoffs/multiple deferrals/shrinking SA class sizes over the past few years - legal hiring might somehow still reflect the boomtimes of the mid-2000s, the conclusion follows that the next few years will probably look pretty piss-poor.

Does that compute?

edit: I think LST is awesome, and I truly believe that what they're doing is highly beneficial for prospective students.




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