Tax LLM at NYU

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Tax LLM at NYU

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:14 am

I'm seriously considering getting and LLM in tax, and NYU seems like the one I would want to go for because i'd like to end up in New York, my questions (from least to most idiotic) are:

1. are tax LLM's really different from most others in that they actually are useful degrees?

1. How difficult is it to get into NYU, coming from a T25 law school (does school rank even matter?)

2. again, coming from a school not near NYC, will this increase my employability much/at all?

3. Will firms hire kids specifically to go into this area, or rather, will firms who specialize in tax be more interested in these LLM's rather than more generic firms where tax isn't a specialty?

4. Would an LLM from Georgetown or even UF help me break into NYC if for some reason NYU doesn't work out?

any information will be helpful, thanks!

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patrickd139
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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby patrickd139 » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:26 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm seriously considering getting and LLM in tax, and NYU seems like the one I would want to go for because i'd like to end up in New York, my questions (from least to most idiotic) are:

1. are tax LLM's really different from most others in that they actually are useful degrees?

1. How difficult is it to get into NYU, coming from a T25 law school (does school rank even matter?)

2. again, coming from a school not near NYC, will this increase my employability much/at all?

3. Will firms hire kids specifically to go into this area, or rather, will firms who specialize in tax be more interested in these LLM's rather than more generic firms where tax isn't a specialty?

4. Would an LLM from Georgetown or even UF help me break into NYC if for some reason NYU doesn't work out?

any information will be helpful, thanks!

Disclaimer: my own cursory research (a mixture of both hard-evidence and anecdotal) forms the basis of my opinion on this. Repeat: just my opinion. I'm sure lots of people will disagree with me.

1) Qualified yes. The qualification appears to be that only NYU, GULC, and (marginally) UF are TCR.

1) (Sic? You might want to learn how to number if considering a career in tax. :wink: ) School rank doesn't appear to matter nearly as much as how you do in your tax classes. Keep in mind lots of the usual suspects (those ranked highly enough in their class to get biglaw jerbs already) aren't in competition.

2) Anecdotally, NYU at least favors geographic diversity for consideration in admissions. Will having a JD from W&M set you apart from having a JD from Fordham when it comes to landing a (presumably biglaw) job in NYC? Doubtful. Will it help you get in to NYU LLM? Anecdotally, it's at least debatable.

3) Compound question. To answer the first question: some firms do hire people with LLMs to be tax lawyers. It seems like a fairly good bet.

To answer your second question: it depends on the firm. Some firms who specialize in tax like to hire people with tax LLMs. Some prefer JD/CPA combos. Some don't care at all as long as you graduated from [insert more prestigious school than I go to here]. If it's from NYU, GULC or (maybe) UF your chances are exponentially increased.

4) Not sure about UF, but an LLM in tax from GULC with an ERISA certificate generally fares well in NYC. They fare better in other markets though (i.e. Chicago, Dallas, Miami, LA; pretty much any city other than NYC or D.C.)

Also, IB LLM Flowchart

Also, also, why is this anonymous?

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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:28 am

hmmmm, I guess when you stick a question in at the beginning that really does effect what number the other 4 are . . . maybe accounting isn't my thing after all. But thanks for the advice!

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patrickd139
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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby patrickd139 » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:hmmmm, I guess when you stick a question in at the beginning that really does effect what number the other 4 are . . . maybe accounting isn't my thing after all. But thanks for the advice!

Eh, not necessarily. I was being a little bit of a douche. You could always go the IRS way and go for the "1A" to avoid having to renumber the rest of the post.

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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:24 am

i think i read somewhere on taxtalent.com that 30% of kids at the LLM program at NYU got biglaw/midlaw jobs or something. That is actually a decent number.

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nealric
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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby nealric » Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:39 am

1. are tax LLM's really different from most others in that they actually are useful degrees?

1. How difficult is it to get into NYU, coming from a T25 law school (does school rank even matter?)

2. again, coming from a school not near NYC, will this increase my employability much/at all?

3. Will firms hire kids specifically to go into this area, or rather, will firms who specialize in tax be more interested in these LLM's rather than more generic firms where tax isn't a specialty?

4. Would an LLM from Georgetown or even UF help me break into NYC if for some reason NYU doesn't work out?

any information will be helpful, thanks!


I'm just under 4 weeks from being done with a GULC LLM.

1. LLM admissions aren't that stringent. For the most part they are cash cows for the schools. Most of the profs are adjuncts making $1,500 a semester. You will probably get into NYU unless your grades are poor. I did GULC because I was able to combine it with my GULC JD and do it with just an extra semester.

2. It may increase your employability, but it VERY much depends on your background and resume. The people who really struggle to find employment in LLM programs were people without much tax background and who had no plan for employment afterwards except for a vague hope the LLM would turn a bad situation around. For the most part, it's not going to get you biglaw unless you were on the cusp of getting it before.

3. There really aren't too many tax boutiques out there these days. The ones that exist (Ivins, Caplin & Drysdale, Miller Chevalier, Buchanan Ingersoll) as hard to get (if not harder) than biglaw.

4. Maybe, but don't bank on it. FWIW the spring OCI for tax is held jointly between NYI and GULC- so both schools have access to the same employers. That said, there is a slight preference for NYU students at that event from what I hear.

Note that I had a job going into the LLM program, so I may not be as up on the employment process as some people.

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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:02 pm

To necro this, NYU JD, 3.2 GPA. What are my odds?

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nealric
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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby nealric » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:To necro this, NYU JD, 3.2 GPA. What are my odds?


Funny to see my posts from 7 years ago :shock:

You will get into NYU LLM unless you threaten, harass, or assault someone in the admissions office. Should be pretty much a formality for a current JD student with median-ish grades.

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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:50 pm

Unfortunately, I'm not a current JD student. I'm class of 2016. I had biglaw and made the stupid mistake to leave it for a terrible exit. This was partly driven by the fact that I hated corporate law and very much wanted to switch into tax, trusts and estates, exec comp, got frustrated by my inability to switch, and made a bad decision (happy to PM you if you think you could add further color).

I'm sort of hoping that this does not change your answer :)

Damage Over Time
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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby Damage Over Time » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Unfortunately, I'm not a current JD student. I'm class of 2016. I had biglaw and made the stupid mistake to leave it for a terrible exit. This was partly driven by the fact that I hated corporate law and very much wanted to switch into tax, trusts and estates, exec comp, got frustrated by my inability to switch, and made a bad decision (happy to PM you if you think you could add further color).

I'm sort of hoping that this does not change your answer :)


I don't think you'd be in any worse shape than a current JD student.

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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:34 am

Not sure about that... it seems like the JD/LLM program's application process is pretty much a formality, but it also sets you up to start taking tax courses in your last year. I didn't take Income Tax (really did not expect to go this route and didn't plan for it), so I'm afraid for my chances.

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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:34 am

(Double post... please delete, thanks!)

Anonymous User
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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:44 pm

Current GULC student here. Strong interest in estate planning with unique experience. Median grades. I have an SA in my top choice firm in a regional market. A few questions:

1) What would my chances be for getting into NYU's LLM program be?
2) What is the difference in outcomes for students at NYU and GULC? I have no interest in NYC BigLaw and I only want to work in my regional market.
3) Am I better off in the Joint degree program at GULC or at NYU based on my goals?
4) What is the value of the LLM degree from either school if I have a SA position?

Thanks TLS for your time.

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CardozoLaw09
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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby CardozoLaw09 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:48 pm

tag

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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:47 pm

tag as well.

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nealric
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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby nealric » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Current GULC student here. Strong interest in estate planning with unique experience. Median grades. I have an SA in my top choice firm in a regional market. A few questions:

1) What would my chances be for getting into NYU's LLM program be?
2) What is the difference in outcomes for students at NYU and GULC? I have no interest in NYC BigLaw and I only want to work in my regional market.
3) Am I better off in the Joint degree program at GULC or at NYU based on my goals?
4) What is the value of the LLM degree from either school if I have a SA position?

Thanks TLS for your time.

1) Very high
2) Totally dependent on your legal market. NYU is generally considered "best" but it may not matter to the small handful of estate planning practitioners in your local market. You are probably talking about the individual opinions of a few dozen people who matter in this regard- tops. It's such a small niche, that your #1 goal needs to be to find a mentor. Ideally, you should find out who the top people in estate planning in your area are right now and make efforts to get to know them.
3) I'd lean towards the GULC joint degree just because you finish in only one semester post-JD. It's what I ended up doing it and I don't regret not holding out for NYU.
4) Ask your firm about it after you have an offer. Might as well apply to the joint degree. You can always bail on the JD/LLM after the JD if anything changes.

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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:58 pm

Nealric, thanks for being our resident tax practice expert! I'm the poster from above... wondering what you thought of my chances (3.28, NYU JD, couple years out), given that I wouldn't be going straight through. Thanks!

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patrickd139
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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby patrickd139 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:48 pm

Not nealric, but I do have an NYU LLM. You have a very high chance of getting in. Especially if you did decently well in JD tax courses.

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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:13 am

Thanks so much! I very unfortunately did not take any tax courses (ugh...), so I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed and write a good personal statement convincing them that I can handle the switch!

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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby unlicensedpotato » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks so much! I very unfortunately did not take any tax courses (ugh...), so I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed and write a good personal statement convincing them that I can handle the switch!


They'll take your money, but I would look at some tax materials before committing so you can make sure you aren't wasting your time (if you haven't done so already). IMO it's not necessarily what people would expect.

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Re: Tax LLM at NYU

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:51 am

Definitely, and thanks for the advice. I've been reading the Income Tax E&E during my downtime at work and it seems reasonable so far. I also enjoyed trusts and estates, which I know is not quite the same. I certainly hope hope NYU will take my money!




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