1L Summer - UNPAID firm job overseas vs. judicial externship

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vamedic03
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Re: 1L Summer - UNPAID firm job overseas vs. judicial externship

Postby vamedic03 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:46 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:It doesn't need to be a summer associate gig in order to be a biglaw gig. You put "internship" instead of summer associateship. It still is going to look a lot better than "judicial internship # 39843" - and if you don't recognize that, you're an idiot hilariously wrong and misinformed.


Explain how an unpaid internship with a BigLaw firm that has SA positions is any more prestigious than a public service internship or judicial internship.


Fuck's sake. It isn't even just a prestige thing. It's an "ability to talk a little more intelligently about working at a law firm, what kind of work you did, and possible practice area prefs than the next OCI guy" thing. It's a "my resume was noticeably different than the other 50 people with judicial internship positions, in a way that made me more memorable" thing.

Furthermore, do you honestly fucking think that people are going to see "DLA Piper" and think "unpaid job"? You don't put "unpaid internship" - you put "summer internship" or "internship" - and many internships are paid. You think the majority of interviews are going to ask whether it was a paid position?

Guess what - working at a firm - and, more importantly, getting a reference from a lawyer at a firm (which you can do even in an unpaid internship) - is a great signaling mechanism that you'll do well at a firm.

Plus, there is the writing sample consideration (admittedly a small part of this). Many judges won't let you use anything you wrote for them as a writing sample (and I don't say this in the abstract - I interned for a state supreme court chief justice my 1L year, and wasn't able to use anything I wrote for her). Even if they did, it's not an example of the kind of writing you will do at a firm.

You know that idiot comment that I struck out? Yeah, unstrike it - you're an idiot.


The highlighted portions sum up everything I need to know about you. Your insults do nothing to support your assertions nor advance your arguments.

People like you, who are vulgar, offensive, and unable to engage in any sort of reasonable conversation, are the reason that people talk shit about TLS and the reason that people stop posting on TLS. People like you are the reason that valuable resources, like NYAssociate, no longer post.

So, how about you apologize and stop acting like a jackass.

Edited for spelling error pointed out by jackass below.
Last edited by vamedic03 on Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: 1L Summer - UNPAID firm job overseas vs. judicial externship

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:56 pm

The internet: where vulgarity is (apparently?) serious business.

I'll take you're [sp] concerns under advisement.

Anyway, OP, I've contributed about all I can - I took a judicial internship over a firm job my 1L summer, and regretted it come OCI. And the firm job wasn't with DLA. Don't be dumb - take the firm job.

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RVP11
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Re: 1L Summer - UNPAID firm job overseas vs. judicial externship

Postby RVP11 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:24 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:ROFL@the direction this thread is taken.


DUDE, IT'S DLA PIPER!!! ELITE BIGLAW!


But seriously - You're a fucking idiot if you think that having any biglaw gig on your resume going in to OCI isn't going to be helpful. Are you a 0L? Have you ever interviewed for any kind of legal job before? Edit: Based on your username, I'm just going to go ahead and assume that you're a 3L who is just daft.

DLA Piper isn't Cravath. But it's also not a "40% of the people I've interviewed today have this" judicial externship. It is a biglaw gig - a gig that the vast majority of law students out kill in order to obtain. Christ, some people in this thread need a reality check.

Oh, and in before "lol enjoy DLA Piper" (the implication being that I'm defending the firm I'm going to be working for) - because it isn't accurate.


Yes, I have been through the OCI process, I've interviewed for dozens of legal jobs, and I think I worked that system quite well.

I think you might be inferring a lot from a little. Nowhere have I said that OP shouldn't go to DLA Piper. Nowhere have I said that a run-of-the-mill judicial internship will be a better resume line or OCI conversation piece than an internship at DLA Piper.

My snarkiness was in response to Patrickd139's posts that just cried out for the ENJOY DLA PIPER meme. Nowhere, on TLS or anywhere else in the universe, have I seen someone declare "hey man, it's D...L...A.....Piper!~" in seriousness, and in such a way that if I transposed it to real life it would be a declaration accompanied by hushed voices and angels singing.

There's nothing wrong with saying that an unpaid firm internship beats an unpaid judicial internship, but let's not pretend that DLA Piper is anything other than a bloated collection of MidLaw practices and a firm that is second-rate in every market in which it operates. The fact that it is (or ever was) in the V50 is a joke.

Would I take DLA on my resume over thousands of other things in the legal world? Yes. I would have loved to have a firm job my 1L summer. But the fact that it's firm work is what's important, not the fact that it's DLA Piper.

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RVP11
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Re: 1L Summer - UNPAID firm job overseas vs. judicial externship

Postby RVP11 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:35 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
dood wrote:
RVP11 wrote:DUDE, IT'S DLA PIPER!!! ELITE BIGLAW!

seriously. DLA < any other firm in that market. its like a bad restaurant that over-franchised. but DLA still looks better on ur resume than everything else.

also side note: you'll prolly get better WE at a judicial internship...but i feel like most law students are resume builders and dont actually care about the experience.

Just when you think TLS is as elitist as possible, the stakes raise. Solid V100 firm < any other firm in that market? Win. :lol:


Did you just out yourself as a DLA Piper SA? Or 0L or 1L?

Don't trust Vault. There are firms way lower in the Vault rankings that are way, way better than DLA Piper. To name a few (I'm going off the rankings from a year ago, so excuse me for that): Wilson Sonsini, Alston & Bird, Cooley, Steptoe, Bryan Cave, Perkins Coie, Hunton & Williams, Patterson Belknap. All those firms are major players, and very well-regarded firms, in at least one market. DLA Piper is second-rate everywhere.

If you picked DLA over one of those firms, especially one of those firms' main offices, you'd get some deserved funny looks. Hell, if you picked DLA over most non-V100 regional BigLaw firms, you'd get some funny looks.

And here's where the comedy gets unbearable: DLA was at 44, while Munger was 40 and Irell was 50. Those are not peer firms.

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RVP11
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Re: 1L Summer - UNPAID firm job overseas vs. judicial externship

Postby RVP11 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:The elitism here doesn't surprise me. What does surprise me is the source: RVP. From reading his posts, I always thought he was one of the most down-to-earth people here, at least until he got his first few offers.


I don't see what's "elitist" about pointing out that DLA Piper isn't exactly a very well-regarded firm. It's roughly comparable to pointing out that the job prospects aren't that great coming out of SMU. It might hurt some people's feelings, but it's not elitist.

Those on here who know me would attest to the fact that I'm no elitist when it comes to choosing a law firm.

Aqualibrium
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Re: 1L Summer - UNPAID firm job overseas vs. judicial externship

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:47 pm

I hate when my post gets buried as the last post on the prior page.

Anyway, V100 nitpicking aside, RVP was right when he said:

the fact that it's firm work is what's important, not the fact that it's DLA Piper.

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L Summer - UNPAID firm job overseas vs. judicial externship

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:28 pm

For those who mentioned the importance of 1L summer at Big Firms, what are some of the duties/responsibilities/accomplishment one can hope to obtain as a 1L summer intern?

irishman86
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Re: 1L Summer - UNPAID firm job overseas vs. judicial externship

Postby irishman86 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:36 pm

Although it's true that 1L summer work does not play a large role in determining 2L OCI results, I would take the firm job because then you might be able to talk more coherently about what practice areas you are interested in.

motiontodismiss
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Re: 1L Summer - UNPAID firm job overseas vs. judicial externship

Postby motiontodismiss » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:29 pm

OGR3 wrote:Don't go.

Give them my contact info and I'll go for you.

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L Summer - UNPAID firm job overseas vs. judicial externship

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:11 am

While DLA isn't that great if you're HYS, consider this guy's situation. For people outside the T14 (which I think this guy is) and not Top X% and LR (which chances are this guy will not be), DLA or for that matter any V100 is golden.

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L Summer - UNPAID firm job overseas vs. judicial externship

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:18 am

On a separate note--

Which summer option would you choose (most likely to help w/2L summer): paid internship at small boutique firm or non-paid DA/US Attorney's Office?

Sup Kid
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Re: 1L Summer - UNPAID firm job overseas vs. judicial externship

Postby Sup Kid » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:On a separate note--

Which summer option would you choose (most likely to help w/2L summer): paid internship at small boutique firm or non-paid DA/US Attorney's Office?

Take the money. I did USAO and it was a great experience, but I don't think 1L summer matters much during OCI (I'll say it again, it's ALL ABOUT GRADES). Therefore, since both are legal experiences, take the cash.

Caveat: If you want to be a prosecutor, obviously do DA/USAO. If you want BigLaw, see above.




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