Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

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Anonymous User
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Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:57 pm

Hey guys.

I got solicited for some work to pull statutes and cases through Lexis/Westlaw via a private real estate broker.

However, he asked me how much I should be paid an hour.

Granted I'd be saving them tons of money through using my Lexis/Westlaw accounts, how much should I ask for an hour?

This is in a major city btw on the east coast...

helfer snooterbagon
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby helfer snooterbagon » Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:01 pm

You do realize that this is wrong, right? The words "For Educational Use Only" appear on the top of your printouts for a reason.

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Ahhhnold
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Ahhhnold » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:09 pm

FWIW the Westlaw rep said they have a program that alerts them if students are doing non-educational searches (not sure this is even possible)

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Big Shrimpin » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:19 pm

this thread made me lol. thx op

Anonymous User
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:20 pm

crap.

she said her peers hire students to do their searches for them and that's why she came to me to solicit. i guess i shouldn't have taken her word for it.

is it illegal for her to even solicit me to do this?

Black-Blue
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Black-Blue » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:22 pm

Ahhhnold wrote:FWIW the Westlaw rep said they have a program that alerts them if students are doing non-educational searches (not sure this is even possible)

Sounds like bs to me.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Lawl Shcool » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:23 pm

There is no way Lexis or Westlaw would catch on if you are doing it during the school year. If they do just say that you are writing a paper on the influence of X statutes for a law review article. It's not like they are going to ask to read the final copy.

I would ask for $25/hour

Anonymous User
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:54 pm

i'm just worried about being disbarred or not meeting character fitness or something of the like...is that possible? is ignorance of the law a defense? ha.

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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:12 pm

You are violating the terms of your contract with Westlaw and Lexis and probably a few laws as well doing this. Westlaw and Lexis CAN certainly track what you are searching. Whether they do so, I do not know. I imagine they probably have some system that alerts them to unusual student searches, at which point they would do a deeper investigation (ie: ask you why are doing the searches you are doing). I figure that they probably would not question you in this instance though. I have to imagine that IF you got caught this would be a big deal for your C&F as it is a form of fraud. The lawyer probably would be fine, but you might end up not passing the C&F part of the bar. Also, if you get caught they probably will bill you for the searches that you ran. That said, I don't think this is that unusual of a situation between a solo and a law student, so I have to imagine that the chances of getting caught are low. I would probably ask for $25 an hour.

Note: The lawyer is almost certainly violating some ethics rules and probably some laws solicitating you like this, but as she is already barred and you are not, if you are caught, I imagine you will pay the bigger punishment.

warumnicht
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby warumnicht » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:20 pm

I wonder how this would play out on the lawyer's end. Normally when a private practitioner runs searches, there's a "client" field so that the lawyer knows what costs each client is incurring (and how much of that is passed on to the client). Because the student search option does not have the "client" field, how do you deal with the billing? Sure, it may be great for the attorney because student searches save a ton of money, but what if the client demands to see what the Westlaw searching cost?

That, and everything that others have said.

Anonymous Loser
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Anonymous Loser » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:22 pm

JPU wrote:There is no way Lexis or Westlaw would catch on if you are doing it during the school year. If they do just say that you are writing a paper on the influence of X statutes for a law review article. It's not like they are going to ask to read the final copy.

I would ask for $25/hour


Setting aside the legal and ethical issues raised by this response for a moment, if a business is unable to afford the even the most basic legal research services, they sure as hell aren't going to be able to pay a student $25 an hour to perform simple research tasks.

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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:26 pm

Anonymous Loser wrote:
JPU wrote:There is no way Lexis or Westlaw would catch on if you are doing it during the school year. If they do just say that you are writing a paper on the influence of X statutes for a law review article. It's not like they are going to ask to read the final copy.

I would ask for $25/hour


Setting aside the legal and ethical issues raised by this response for a moment, if a business is unable to afford the even the most basic legal research services, they sure as hell aren't going to be able to pay a student $25 an hour to perform simple research tasks.


They are paying for the free Westlaw and Lexis access, not for the research skills. Any search of Westlaw and Lexis would cost the firm hundreds of dollars, if not more. They are paying OP for his or her free access, not his or her skills.

choza321
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby choza321 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:27 pm

I am stunned that there is a thread about this. The firm is asking you to do something illegal. It is irrelevant as to how likely it would be for you to get caught. Under no circumstance should you accept the offer. End of discussion.

Anonymous User
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:33 pm

he just sent an email saying he'd pay $10/hr...

:shock:

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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:he just sent an email saying he'd pay $10/hr...

:shock:


I'm not surprised. I'm sure there are a ton of law students he can find that would do it for $10. I probably would not do it for $10 an hour though.

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JazzOne
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby JazzOne » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:he just sent an email saying he'd pay $10/hr...

:shock:

I'd report him to the state bar. Not because he's unethical. Because he's a fucking cheapskate.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:he just sent an email saying he'd pay $10/hr...

:shock:



Ask for 12-15.

Anonymous User
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:40 pm

JazzOne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:he just sent an email saying he'd pay $10/hr...

:shock:

I'd report him to the state bar. Not because he's unethical. Because he's a fucking cheapskate.



lol ^

i doubt the state bar would do anything but laugh in my face over this...

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JazzOne
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby JazzOne » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:he just sent an email saying he'd pay $10/hr...

:shock:

I'd report him to the state bar. Not because he's unethical. Because he's a fucking cheapskate.



lol ^

i doubt the state bar would do anything but laugh in my face over this...

They'll be more sympathetic if you tell them how much he offered to pay.

Write him back and tell him you'll take the job, but you will do the research in print sources, and it will take twice as long. See if he likes that option.

Anonymous Loser
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Anonymous Loser » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:41 pm

User Posting Anonymously For No Discernible Reason wrote:
They are paying for the free Westlaw and Lexis access, not for the research skills. Any search of Westlaw and Lexis would cost the firm hundreds of dollars, if not more.


No. If you run an ALLCASES search, then it may well be several hundred dollars on an unfavorable plan, but searching within state statutory materials is generally quite reasonable--typically under $10 on even the most basic transactional plan. It's not like a small real estate company needs to comb through appellate briefs or obscure administrative decisions: all they likely need is case law from their home state and statutory/regulatory materials. Based on the rate plans I've seen at small firms, you can likely set up flat rate access for a couple of hundred bucks a month if these are the only resources you need.

Anonymous User
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:44 pm

I'm working an externship for a federal government agency this semester. They gave me a Lexis username/pw, but I've been using my school issued Westlaw PW because I prefer Westlaw and don't feel like remembering another PW. Had no clue that this would be an issue. Should I be worried?

Anonymous User
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm working an externship for a federal government agency this semester. They gave me a Lexis username/pw, but I've been using my school issued Westlaw PW because I prefer Westlaw and don't feel like remembering another PW. Had no clue that this would be an issue. Should I be worried?

I used my school Westlaw account last summer at my SA job. Nothing ever came of it, but I don't plan to keep doing it. That's stupid. Let the government pay for their research. I am a member of a few journals, so if asked about my searches, I was going to claim it was research for my note. Like I said, though, nothing ever came of it.

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Borhas
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Borhas » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:21 pm

I wonder if this is an embezzlement hypo

Anonymous User
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:52 am

Working for Gov/PI (including judges) you are allowed to use your educational ID for Lexis and Westlaw.

And depending on where you are doing your research from it is absolutely possible for Lexis/Westlaw to find out if you are using your educational ID for non-educational purposes. E.g., if you are in the firm's office they are going to log the firm's IP address when you login. Since the cheapskates probably at least have a Lexis/Westlaw account (even if they avoid using it), the firm's Lexis/Westlaw account will be linked to that IP address. If an educational ID logs in from the same IP address Lexis/Westlaw get an alert.

Another issue entirely is if they will actually do anything about it. I have heard of people never hearing a word, getting an email warning from the rep, and someone's educational ID being cut off.

Black-Blue
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Re: Part Time Law Clerk Job While a 3L to Pull/Research Statutes

Postby Black-Blue » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:And depending on where you are doing your research from it is absolutely possible for Lexis/Westlaw to find out if you are using your educational ID for non-educational purposes. E.g., if you are in the firm's office they are going to log the firm's IP address when you login. Since the cheapskates probably at least have a Lexis/Westlaw account (even if they avoid using it), the firm's Lexis/Westlaw account will be linked to that IP address. If an educational ID logs in from the same IP address Lexis/Westlaw get an alert.

Another issue entirely is if they will actually do anything about it. I have heard of people never hearing a word, getting an email warning from the rep, and someone's educational ID being cut off.

In this case, OP would be working from school or home, so they wouldn't be able to track. Also, analyzing IP address is not as easy as you think, because IP addresses doesn't always necessarily distinguish between commercial and residential areas. Even if you work in a location that only has commercial buildings, you can just say that you're doing homework at your firm's office. I have a part time law firm job and I occasional use lexis/WL for school purposes while at the job.

As for automated alerts based on the subject of searches, I can't imagine how they would be able to make such a systematic alert system to distinguish work from school activity.




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