Hastings' Job Prospects

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:After you're in the interview, you have just as good a shot as all the T14 kids they're interviewing too. You only have yourself to blame, (and your interview skills, and your resume, and sheer random luck) once you get in the door.


I haven't gone through LS OCI, but when I interviewed for jobs on campus at my UG back in the day I can tell you that this was not the case at all. I doubt LS OCI is that much different.

Anonymous User
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:06 pm

eth3n wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:If you're not a URM and not IP, top third probably isn't getting you much at either school, but you're at least in the running.

For the tenth time, thats just patently false. This chart does nothing to tie the best jobs to the best class ranks. There are no class ranks in this employment stats chart.
Also, URM? Really? We're now using that excuse?


Great use of anon posting btw. And what do you mean by "patently false"? Have you considered that SBL might have some knowledge about Davis students have fared? (personally and anecdotally I would have to agree, top 1/3 will get you nothing more than pity interviews in most cases (they gotta fill up those slots), so you better have amazing interview skills, many people outside of top 10% [and inside as well sadly] got shafted)

Pretending URM status doesn't matter for hiring is absurd.


We're not talking about Davis students or SBL's Davis insight. We're talking about the Hastings Employment Statistics chart that was linked to above. I go to Hastings. I am not anywhere near the top 10% and either are plenty of people I know who landed firm jobs through OCI or through the job board. Its a fact. To say that only kids in the top 10% or top 25% land firm jobs is false. To say that the only kids outside of the top 25% who get jobs are URM is false.

I get that most of the people on here disagree, so I'll let it go, but you're painting a false picture of Hastings job prospects, and as a proud (top 45%) Hastings student, who thinks this is a great school and who has had great luck with my job search, and who thinks our career services office does a good job if you seek out their help, it bothers me. Hence, I keep posting the other side of the story. But apparently, I'm the only one on here who thinks this, probably because most of the kids who are scoring jobs are probably not trolling TLS and posting 20 times a day. Hence this thread is pretty skewed. So I'll drop it now, and you can all go back to complaining about how horrible and unfair your job prospects are. Carry on.

eth3n
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby eth3n » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:28 pm

.
Last edited by eth3n on Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:48 pm

eth3n wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:We're not talking about Davis students or SBL's Davis insight. We're talking about the Hastings Employment Statistics chart that was linked to above. I go to Hastings. I am not anywhere near the top 10% and either are plenty of people I know who landed firm jobs through OCI or through the job board. Its a fact. To say that only kids in the top 10% or top 25% land firm jobs is false. To say that the only kids outside of the top 25% who get jobs are URM is false.

I get that most of the people on here disagree, so I'll let it go, but you're painting a false picture of Hastings job prospects, and as a proud (top 45%) Hastings student, who thinks this is a great school and who has had great luck with my job search, and who thinks our career services office does a good job if you seek out their help, it bothers me. Hence, I keep posting the other side of the story. But apparently, I'm the only one on here who thinks this, probably because most of the kids who are scoring jobs are probably not trolling TLS and posting 20 times a day. Hence this thread is pretty skewed. So I'll drop it now, and you can all go back to complaining about how horrible and unfair your job prospects are. Carry on.


Your right I don't know why I thought someone asked about Davis or claimed they were a Davis/Hastings student, and you certainly have me pegged as a 10/day troll at the bottom of his class.

I surrender, please keep providing naive students advice to gamble 100k+ on the chance that they make top10%, or on the chance that they have get lucky like you. (and didn't you say you had related work experience? does this really speak to the average student's chances out of LS?)

People don't provide warnings on this board to troll kids who want to go to law school, we are trying to prevent people from making a decision they may seriously regret based on questionable info.


I actually agree with you on almost everything you said. Which is my point. My point is that work experience before law school and your interviewing skills (which probably aren't going to be stellar if you come to law school straight from undergrad, have no work experience, have no good reasons for wanting to be a lawyer, etc.) is more important in your OCI interviews than your class rank or the rank of your school. The kids that lack work experience and interview skills yet are in the top 25% are STILL going to have problems getting a job. The kids that are ranked lower but have work experience and great interviewing skills, and who aren't 23 and who know better than to show up to OCI in a pinstripe suit with a vest, etc., will have an easier time getting a job, regardless of their class rank. Hence, my ultimate point, which is class rank doesn't guarantee you a good job, and a lower class rank doesn't shut you out of getting a good job.

If anything, the stress the posters on this thread put on the importance of class rank is what ENCOURAGES naive students to go to law school. Because you're leading them to believe that if they get fabulous grades (and of COURSE everyone thinks they are going to get fabulous grades...), they have it made. And if they don't, blame the economy. Or blame the school's ranking. Because it can't be YOU! YOU got in the top 10%! You should be handed a job. Saying that class rank guarantees you a job is what encourages kids to go to law school when they shouldn't.

What school you go to, and what class rank you get after your first year aren't the most important factors. Thats what I keep trying to say. Clearly, I need to implement better use of CRAC in writing my posts, because it seems like you're interpreting my posts to say "Go to law school and get lucky!" No. I'm saying "Your class rank isn't the magic formula to getting a job!" Thus, if you're highly ranked and can't get a job; or if you're ranked lower (like me) and can get a job, this shouldn't surprise anyone.

Black-Blue
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Black-Blue » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:55 pm

Why is this being debated? It's almost an axiom here that if 25% of the people get biglaw, those 25% that get biglaw aren't the top 25%.

However, one caveat to the above post is that WE/interviewing won't save you if your rank is below a certain cutoff point. So we have a lot of necessary conditions, but no sufficient condition.

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General Tso
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby General Tso » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
General Tso, were you in Section 4? I think I know who you are, but did you change your username?


Yup you do know me. I was talking earlier about how smart you were and what a shame it is you had to take a job on the east coast rather than CA. But still a job's a job. How are finals? You can send me a PM.

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General Tso
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby General Tso » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:59 pm

Black-Blue wrote:WE/interviewing won't save you if your rank is below a certain cutoff point. So we have a lot of necessary conditions, but no sufficient condition.


That's generally true, and I think it's a point that this person may be overlooking. The exception to that is that Hastings does a partial lottery system whereby a bottom 25% student can technically get an interview with a few huge firms. Our top 45% friend probably would not have gotten the interview without this lottery system, but it seems they made the most of it.

Top 45% - which firm are you headed to? Don't have to be specific, just size, market, starting salary is enough.

AntiHuman
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby AntiHuman » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:21 pm

k i just think the employment stats on their website are pretty impressive. 104 people minimum out of the entire class seem to have around 6 figure jobs...if I am reading this right..

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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:15 pm

AntiHuman wrote:k i just think the employment stats on their website are pretty impressive. 104 people minimum out of the entire class seem to have around 6 figure jobs...if I am reading this right..


Exactly.

And Top 45% is going to a CA firm with more than 100 attys, where the starting salary is $110k.

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drdolittle
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby drdolittle » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I actually agree with you on almost everything you said. Which is my point. My point is that work experience before law school and your interviewing skills (which probably aren't going to be stellar if you come to law school straight from undergrad, have no work experience, have no good reasons for wanting to be a lawyer, etc.) is more important in your OCI interviews than your class rank or the rank of your school. The kids that lack work experience and interview skills yet are in the top 25% are STILL going to have problems getting a job. The kids that are ranked lower but have work experience and great interviewing skills, and who aren't 23 and who know better than to show up to OCI in a pinstripe suit with a vest, etc., will have an easier time getting a job, regardless of their class rank. Hence, my ultimate point, which is class rank doesn't guarantee you a good job, and a lower class rank doesn't shut you out of getting a good job.

If anything, the stress the posters on this thread put on the importance of class rank is what ENCOURAGES naive students to go to law school. Because you're leading them to believe that if they get fabulous grades (and of COURSE everyone thinks they are going to get fabulous grades...), they have it made. And if they don't, blame the economy. Or blame the school's ranking. Because it can't be YOU! YOU got in the top 10%! You should be handed a job. Saying that class rank guarantees you a job is what encourages kids to go to law school when they shouldn't.

What school you go to, and what class rank you get after your first year aren't the most important factors. Thats what I keep trying to say. Clearly, I need to implement better use of CRAC in writing my posts, because it seems like you're interpreting my posts to say "Go to law school and get lucky!" No. I'm saying "Your class rank isn't the magic formula to getting a job!" Thus, if you're highly ranked and can't get a job; or if you're ranked lower (like me) and can get a job, this shouldn't surprise anyone.


Great post. And thanks for the tip re. interview wardrobe. 8)

This summarizes what I've directly heard from students and the career office at Hastings. After going to a bunch of campus meetings where students interested in a particular practice area hear from current 2&3Ls who've found a job in that field, I've met and talked to a number of students who've had essentially the same experience. They made it clear that these days, students who don't come out of law school with more than just their class rank will have a tougher time landing a job. The average attorney's work is fairly routine so employers realize that for doing such jobs most law students ranked even within tens of percentile of each other in class rank at a school like Hastings aren't substantially different. It's just that they often don't have anything else to base their selection on. They actually want to find something more, hence the importance of networking, chance face to face meeting, special technical background, UG & Grad alumni network, family connections, etc...anything that'll make the applicant more than a number.

All this should seem obvious to anyone with significant WE, but I understand it's tough for fresh undergrads to swallow. Even Cal's job prospects are hurting according to TLS and the problem's obviously the economy, not the school. There aren't too many schools better for CA (only three comes to mind). Unless you can get into Y/H/S, which unfortunately benefit from the prestige-whore nature of the legal profession and make things easier by not using grades, you should expect to rely on more than only your class rank to find an acceptable position upon graduating (at least here in CA). Yet still as best I can tell and with few exceptions top 10-15% at Hastings will do fine regardless. I find this impressive because there aren't too many professions out there now where one can walk out of school, with little direct skills, and make a six figure salary right off the bat simply based on exam grades.

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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:05 pm

drdolittle wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I actually agree with you on almost everything you said. Which is my point. My point is that work experience before law school and your interviewing skills (which probably aren't going to be stellar if you come to law school straight from undergrad, have no work experience, have no good reasons for wanting to be a lawyer, etc.) is more important in your OCI interviews than your class rank or the rank of your school. The kids that lack work experience and interview skills yet are in the top 25% are STILL going to have problems getting a job. The kids that are ranked lower but have work experience and great interviewing skills, and who aren't 23 and who know better than to show up to OCI in a pinstripe suit with a vest, etc., will have an easier time getting a job, regardless of their class rank. Hence, my ultimate point, which is class rank doesn't guarantee you a good job, and a lower class rank doesn't shut you out of getting a good job.

If anything, the stress the posters on this thread put on the importance of class rank is what ENCOURAGES naive students to go to law school. Because you're leading them to believe that if they get fabulous grades (and of COURSE everyone thinks they are going to get fabulous grades...), they have it made. And if they don't, blame the economy. Or blame the school's ranking. Because it can't be YOU! YOU got in the top 10%! You should be handed a job. Saying that class rank guarantees you a job is what encourages kids to go to law school when they shouldn't.

What school you go to, and what class rank you get after your first year aren't the most important factors. Thats what I keep trying to say. Clearly, I need to implement better use of CRAC in writing my posts, because it seems like you're interpreting my posts to say "Go to law school and get lucky!" No. I'm saying "Your class rank isn't the magic formula to getting a job!" Thus, if you're highly ranked and can't get a job; or if you're ranked lower (like me) and can get a job, this shouldn't surprise anyone.


Great post. And thanks for the tip re. interview wardrobe. 8)

This summarizes what I've directly heard from students and the career office at Hastings. After going to a bunch of campus meetings where students interested in a particular practice area hear from current 2&3Ls who've found a job in that field, I've met and talked to a number of students who've had essentially the same experience. They made it clear that these days, students who don't come out of law school with more than just their class rank will have a tougher time landing a job. The average attorney's work is fairly routine so employers realize that for doing such jobs most law students ranked even within tens of percentile of each other in class rank at a given school aren't substantially different. It's just that they often don't have anything else to base their selection on. They actually want to find something more, hence the importance of networking, chance face to face meeting, special technical background, UG & Grad alumni network, family connections, etc...anything that'll make the applicant more than a number.

All this should seem obvious to anyone with significant WE, but I understand it's tough for fresh undergrads to swallow. Even Cal's job prospects are hurting according to TLS and the problem's obviously the economy, not the school. There aren't too many schools better for CA (only three comes to mind). Unless you can get into Y/H/S, which unfortunately benefit from the prestige-whore nature of the legal profession and make things easier by not using grades, you should expect to rely on more than only your class rank to find an acceptable position upon graduating (at least here in CA). Yet still as best I can tell and with few exceptions top 10-15% at Hastings will do fine regardless. I find this impressive because there aren't too many professions out there now where one can walk out of school, with little direct skills, and make a six figure salary right off the bat simply based on exam grades.


Dr. Dolittle! Thank you for your sane post. I agree 100% with everything you said. (And I have a feeling you didn't need the pinstripe suit tip, but no joke, saw more than one of those at OCI this year.)

<3, Top 45.

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joobacca
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby joobacca » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:30 pm

don't be pussies. a full-time job hampers full-time toking. come on folks, get your shit together. this is a good thing.

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drdolittle
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby drdolittle » Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:Dr. Dolittle! Thank you for your sane post. I agree 100% with everything you said. (And I have a feeling you didn't need the pinstripe suit tip, but no joke, saw more than one of those at OCI this year.)

<3, Top 45.


Sure thing, and congrats on the job!

Aqualibrium
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Aqualibrium » Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:16 am

My fav suit is striped. Wore it to most of my interviews. Didn't have any problem getting offers...
Last edited by Aqualibrium on Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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mnolen
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby mnolen » Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:27 am

Aqualibrium wrote:My fav suit is stripped. Wore it to most of my interviews. Didn't have any problem getting offers...


Maybe you got all the jobs because of the stripping.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Aqualibrium » Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:37 am

mnolen wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:My fav suit is stripped. Wore it to most of my interviews. Didn't have any problem getting offers...


Maybe you got all the jobs because of the stripping.



lol...I know I know

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20160810
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby 20160810 » Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:48 am

Fine. I give up. I know nothing about hiring at Davis or Hastings. Let's go on pretending that top-45% getting a firm job is the rule and not the exception.

missinglink
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby missinglink » Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:16 pm

I did not need to find this thread near the tail end of finals. :lol:

Oh well, back to Civil Procedure.

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General Tso
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby General Tso » Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:22 pm

missinglink wrote:I did not need to find this thread near the tail end of finals. :lol:

Oh well, back to Civil Procedure.


10 years from now we will probably all be fine. Good luck on your last exam!

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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:42 am

SBL wrote:Fine. I give up. I know nothing about hiring at Davis or Hastings. Let's go on pretending that top-45% getting a firm job is the rule and not the exception.


Not what I said, dude. In any of my posts.

missinglink
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby missinglink » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:18 pm

General Tso wrote:
missinglink wrote:I did not need to find this thread near the tail end of finals. :lol:

Oh well, back to Civil Procedure.


10 years from now we will probably all be fine. Good luck on your last exam!

Thanks.

I'm hoping to get some apps out soon after finals. With some background in research, and (probably) an A in LWR, it'll be good to get some stuff out before the rest of our grades are released.

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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:26 pm

Non Ip Hastings 33-45%, Paul Weiss.

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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Non Ip Hastings 33-45%, Paul Weiss.


Congrats!

(Quick, everyone harangue this poster for being "the exception"/URM/crazy lucky/only employed because of the Hastings OCI lotto system/etc. etc. etc.)

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General Tso
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby General Tso » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Non Ip Hastings 33-45%, Paul Weiss.


Congrats!

(Quick, everyone harangue this poster for being "the exception"/URM/crazy lucky/only employed because of the Hastings OCI lotto system/etc. etc. etc.)


I don't understand what you are railing against, exactly. I've seen with my own two eyes Boalt people jumping at the chance to make 70k in Fresno. Even in the best of times, only 33% of Hastings' classes would get big and midlaw jobs earning 100k+. I haven't seen the final 2010 OCI numbers, but the careers office straight up told us they were expecting 10-15% placement through OCI (presumably that was what happened in 2009).

Look, I want to hope for the best just like everyone. And by all means congrats to those outside the top 1/3 that get 100k+ jobs. But by every objective measure these people ARE THE EXCEPTIONS.

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20160810
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby 20160810 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:18 am

General Tso wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Non Ip Hastings 33-45%, Paul Weiss.


Congrats!

(Quick, everyone harangue this poster for being "the exception"/URM/crazy lucky/only employed because of the Hastings OCI lotto system/etc. etc. etc.)


I don't understand what you are railing against, exactly. I've seen with my own two eyes Boalt people jumping at the chance to make 70k in Fresno. Even in the best of times, only 33% of Hastings' classes would get big and midlaw jobs earning 100k+. I haven't seen the final 2010 OCI numbers, but the careers office straight up told us they were expecting 10-15% placement through OCI (presumably that was what happened in 2009).

Look, I want to hope for the best just like everyone. And by all means congrats to those outside the top 1/3 that get 100k+ jobs. But by every objective measure these people ARE THE EXCEPTIONS.

This.

Nobody's saying not to go to UCH, or that people outside the top-15% can't get biglaw, just that by and large they don't. Which is true. The fact that there are exceptions doesn't disprove the rule.

Also, just for the record: Paul Weiss guy/gal, URM?




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