Hastings' Job Prospects

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Zeile
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Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Zeile » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:12 pm

Any recent grads and current students have any insight? What does top of the class get? And what is median getting these days? Are many grads forced into doing doc review and shitlaw?

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General Tso
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby General Tso » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:32 pm

from TLS it seems like Davis students fared better at OCI, despite fewer firms participating in their OCI.

My guess is top 15% to have a realistic shot at a big or mid sized firm through OCI. Hastings has become mostly an afterthought for these kinds of firms ITE....forget the roaring 00's where 33% of the class got 125k+ mid and big law. I still think Hastings is a great school, and that you will have decent small firm options if you effectively utilize the alumni network. Any small firm or corporate job is going to pay fairly well in CA...my guess is 55-75k on average. But keep in mind that competition for those kinds of positions will still be very high. My small summer firm in Oakland got resumes from many T14 graduates.

Long story short...Hastings is still a good choice even ITE, but only if you keep your debt level manageable. My personal limit would be 75k debt, and there's no way I could justify borrowing more than 100k to attend this school.

Zeile
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Zeile » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:47 pm

Damn. Can I ask where you stand in the class? Also, how large is this firm in Oakland and is it a paid position that you got? 55-75k is average starting salary for them, I guess? Any idea what senior associates or partners there make? How did you land the gig? Mass mailing? Family connections?

Also, how hard do you think it is to be in the top 15-20 or even the top third at Hastings? Does the LEOP thing give anyone an advantage at all since I imagine many of them are toward the bottom of the barrell.

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General Tso
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby General Tso » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:59 pm

Zeile wrote:Damn. Can I ask where you stand in the class? Also, how large is this firm in Oakland and is it a paid position that you got? 55-75k is average starting salary for them, I guess? Any idea what senior associates or partners there make? How did you land the gig? Mass mailing? Family connections?

Also, how hard do you think it is to be in the top 15-20 or even the top third at Hastings? Does the LEOP thing give anyone an advantage at all since I imagine many of them are toward the bottom of the barrell.


1. top 20-33%

2. my summer firm was 5-7 attorneys, I was paid $15/hour for the summer. I had no long term employment prospect there.

3. I believe the new attorney they were looking to hire was going to be paid $50k, maybe with some bonuses. Most of the attorneys there were on eat-what-you-kill compensation, which I would guess would yield 100-200k salary.

I have no family connections...got the interview through mass mailings.

Hastings is pretty competitive...I think you have to study hard and study smart. Figure out what works for you, but for me, I like to use old outlines and supplements. I don't write my own outlines, brief cases, etc. I think all of that is a waste of time. But each person is different..

Rory1987
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Rory1987 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:02 pm

General Tso wrote:
Zeile wrote:Damn. Can I ask where you stand in the class? Also, how large is this firm in Oakland and is it a paid position that you got? 55-75k is average starting salary for them, I guess? Any idea what senior associates or partners there make? How did you land the gig? Mass mailing? Family connections?

Also, how hard do you think it is to be in the top 15-20 or even the top third at Hastings? Does the LEOP thing give anyone an advantage at all since I imagine many of them are toward the bottom of the barrell.


1. top 20-33%

2. my summer firm was 5-7 attorneys, I was paid $15/hour for the summer. I had no long term employment prospect there.

3. I believe the new attorney they were looking to hire was going to be paid $50k, maybe with some bonuses. Most of the attorneys there were on eat-what-you-kill compensation, which I would guess would yield 100-200k salary.

I have no family connections...got the interview through mass mailings.

Hastings is pretty competitive...I think you have to study hard and study smart. Figure out what works for you, but for me, I like to use old outlines and supplements. I don't write my own outlines, brief cases, etc. I think all of that is a waste of time. But each person is different..


Wow, that is a really small firm. Where do you think you’ll be working when you graduate? Does median have the same type of prospects as well? If the small firm thing doesn’t work out…then what?

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General Tso
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby General Tso » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:11 pm

Rory1987 wrote:
Wow, that is a really small firm. Where do you think you’ll be working when you graduate? Does median have the same type of prospects as well? If the small firm thing doesn’t work out…then what?


I will probably be working at a small firm...and I am okay with that. I think everybody from the 25th percentile to the 75th percentile has a good chance of getting a small firm job.

It'd be nice to hear other Hastings students' experiences. A lot of people have connections and what not, and hence probably have a rosier view of things than me.

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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:55 pm

I will basically second everything General Tso said, but I'm a little less optimistic for the employment outcomes of those at median and below.

I was top 25% and struck out at OCI. I know VERY few people who are not IP and still received at least one offer. I know multiple students who ended up in the area of top 5-10% and received 0 offers. It seems that while Hastings is still a fair bet for IP people, it's a very risky bet for those who are not. The days of top 30% being in decent shape at Hastings are far gone - to me there seems to be a bit of a "sinking ship" vibe, but who knows. There's only so much that a career services office can do - they can't create jobs where none exist - but the Hastings career office is full of sunshine and farts and eschews giving out realistic advice in favor of verbal happy pills; "you'll get in everywhere you apply!!!" At least they give out free candy. Proceed with caution or a hefty scholarship.

Also, I think the LEOP kids generally follow the curve with some minor deviation. I was LEOP and I know of several others who did much better than I did, top 10% and above.

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General Tso
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby General Tso » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I will basically second everything General Tso said, but I'm a little less optimistic for the employment outcomes of those at median and below.

I was top 25% and struck out at OCI. I know VERY few people who are not IP and still received at least one offer. I know multiple students who ended up in the area of top 5-10% and received 0 offers. It seems that while Hastings is still a fair bet for IP people, it's a very risky bet for those who are not. The days of top 30% being in decent shape at Hastings are far gone - to me there seems to be a bit of a "sinking ship" vibe, but who knows. There's only so much that a career services office can do - they can't create jobs where none exist - but the Hastings career office is full of sunshine and farts and eschews giving out realistic advice in favor of verbal happy pills; "you'll get in everywhere you apply!!!" At least they give out free candy. Proceed with caution or a hefty scholarship.

Also, I think the LEOP kids generally follow the curve with some minor deviation. I was LEOP and I know of several others who did much better than I did, top 10% and above.


I also got shut out at OCI. I had 17 interviews, one callback, and no offers. The callback was in Fresno of all places, and they ended up hiring mostly from Boalt. Hard to imagine a world where Boalt people are clamoring for 70k Fresno jobs, but such is the reality we face.

I am pretty pessimistic as well. I don't know whether the better strategy is to plan on small firm/solo practice or to take a leave of absence and see what I can get with my Econ degree. I have not tested the CA employment waters outside of the legal field, and my g/f just landed a sweet ~60k engineering job which makes me think hiring of BA/BS holders in CA may not be so bad right now.

But I am only looking at 65k total debt if I finish Hastings, so at this point I figure I'll stick with the gamble. I do not get the people who are borrowing 130k+ for this degree. I feel awful about my 65k.

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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I will basically second everything General Tso said, but I'm a little less optimistic for the employment outcomes of those at median and below.

I was top 25% and struck out at OCI. I know VERY few people who are not IP and still received at least one offer. I know multiple students who ended up in the area of top 5-10% and received 0 offers. It seems that while Hastings is still a fair bet for IP people, it's a very risky bet for those who are not. The days of top 30% being in decent shape at Hastings are far gone - to me there seems to be a bit of a "sinking ship" vibe, but who knows. There's only so much that a career services office can do - they can't create jobs where none exist - but the Hastings career office is full of sunshine and farts and eschews giving out realistic advice in favor of verbal happy pills; "you'll get in everywhere you apply!!!" At least they give out free candy. Proceed with caution or a hefty scholarship.

Also, I think the LEOP kids generally follow the curve with some minor deviation. I was LEOP and I know of several others who did much better than I did, top 10% and above.


I don't think that IP people did well at Hastings. It seems that many of them have nothing and that most of them who did get offers got them on their own outside of OCI. And many of them seem to be going outside of California.

If California is not doing well, then Hastings will not do well. As we all know, California is horrible right now.

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General Tso
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby General Tso » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Also, I think the LEOP kids generally follow the curve with some minor deviation. I was LEOP and I know of several others who did much better than I did, top 10% and above.


I think the LSAT is a pretty poor predictor of 1L performance. My LSAT was below median for Hastings. I think the most important skill for law school success is how well one can write and think analytically. The LSAT doesn't measure this.

Zeile
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Zeile » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:26 am

Damn! As someone who wants to go to Hastings, this thread is very discouraging :(

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General Tso
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby General Tso » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:39 am

Zeile wrote:Damn! As someone who wants to go to Hastings, this thread is very discouraging :(


It's not the school...it's the economy. Hastings has great professors, many of them are leading scholars in their fields. The students are fun and not at all cutthroat like their reputation. The location is not the best, but it is still SF after all. Many local attorneys still consider it a top school...my summer boss called it "the Georgetown of the West" (maybe giving it a little too much credit).

It's kind of like being a great athlete, but just shy of professional level. By GPA/LSAT, Hastings students are easily inside the top 10% of all law students nationwide. But if the skills don't pay the bills, then what's the use?

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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:I know VERY few people who are not IP and still received at least one offer. I know multiple students who ended up in the area of top 5-10% and received 0 offers. It seems that while Hastings is still a fair bet for IP people, it's a very risky bet for those who are not.


Most of the people I know with big firm offers are not IP. I'm assuming most/all of them are top 10-15%, but I don't really know for sure. Either way, the conclusion that people can't get jobs unless they're IP is not correct.

I think the primary issue is that there are just not very many firm jobs in the SF Bay Area. Lots and lots of people on this forum have talked about getting shut out in SF, even people who were at the top of their classes at top schools.

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drdolittle
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby drdolittle » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:41 pm

Zeile wrote:Damn! As someone who wants to go to Hastings, this thread is very discouraging :(


I know real info can seem lacking, but do not base your decision on whether or not to attend a certain school, Hastings or any other, solely on a few perspectives, from TLS or elsewhere. Visit the school you're interested in, talk to students, try to get in touch with attorneys in the region you want to practice in, get work experience so you know what to focus on and so you have connections once you get to and out of law school, etc. There are many things you can do to get a more realistic perspective relevant to your situation.

GT generally offers very good advice on TLS about Hastings, but his perspective is not necessarily authoritative (I don't think he'd disagree with this though). And I think his debt limit for Hastings is just unrealistic for the vast majority of students. Might as well outright tell people not to come...Yet his posts from a few years back effectively argue that around and even above 100K debt for Hastings is more or less the price of attending law school in CA since significantly cheaper alternatives that give similar job prospects (or possibilities rather) unfortunately don't exist. I think that's certainly still a valid argument today, for practicing in CA at least, no matter how hard it is to swallow.

Also remember that Hastings is relatively large and students often simply don't have a good handle on what everyone else is up to. That's why, for example, even this thread seems to give conflicting info about IP job prospects out of Hastings...

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General Tso
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby General Tso » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:49 pm

drdolittle wrote:
Zeile wrote:Damn! As someone who wants to go to Hastings, this thread is very discouraging :(


I know real info can seem lacking, but do not base your decision on whether or not to attend a certain school, Hastings or any other, solely on a few perspectives, from TLS or elsewhere. Visit the school you're interested in, talk to students, try to get in touch with attorneys in the region you want to practice in, get work experience so you know what to focus on and so you have connections once you get to and out of law school, etc. There are many things you can do to get a more realistic perspective relevant to your situation.

GT generally offers very good advice on TLS about Hastings, but his perspective is not necessarily authoritative (I don't think he'd disagree with this though). And I think his debt limit for Hastings is just unrealistic for the vast majority of students. Might as well outright tell people not to come...Yet his posts from a few years back effectively argue that around and even above 100K debt for Hastings is more or less the price of attending law school in CA since significantly cheaper alternatives that give similar job prospects (or possibilities rather) unfortunately don't exist. I think that's certainly still a valid argument today, for practicing in CA at least, no matter how hard it is to swallow.

Also remember that Hastings is relatively large and students often simply don't have a good handle on what everyone else is up to. That's why, for example, even this thread seems to give conflicting info about IP job prospects out of Hastings...


I agree...we need many more perspectives here. From my (limited) conversations with people at school, it seems like 3L hiring might be stronger right now than 2L hiring.

I have adjusted my debt threshold downward since 2 years ago. At the time I decided to attend Hastings, top 1/3 people were still getting 100k+ jobs and 80k jobs for below median Hastings people were not unheard of. I now think the general rule of not borrowing much more than you expect to earn in your first year is good advice right now. Unfortunately, my advice to most people considering Hastings would be to wait if they cannot do it in under 100k debt. Again, it's not the school...it's the economy.

Of course none of this debt talk applies if you are committed to a public interest career, which I am happy to see has become a serious focus of the careers office at Hastings.

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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Merriweather » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:19 am

Image

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20160810
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby 20160810 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:36 am

Yikes, this is rough. Davis has been rough-ish this year, but not this bad. Generally it seems (warning: HIGHLY anecdotal comment coming based on a sample size of my friends and acquaintances, so take it fwiw) that if you were top-20% this year and went through OCI, you came up with something, and some of the top-20-33% people made out fine. Below top 25-33%-ish though it probably wasn't pretty here either.

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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby General Tso » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:28 am

In other news, Hastings' out of state tuition is going DOWN next year by $1,600. Is this the first time a law school has ever decreased tuition?

In state is going up, but only by ~$1,000.

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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:29 pm

There definitely are a limited number of opportunities in the legal market generally and the Bay Area in particular, allowing the firms to just look at the top of the class at every school, not just Hastings. The interview schedules of big firms at Hastings OCI all had a lot of the same names on them.

Most of the people I know who got good grades and are on journal have accepted great jobs (after having multiple CBs and offers), including Biglaw for those who want it. All of them took school very seriously their first year (and made sacrifices accordingly), and have been rewarded for it. Outside the top of the class, things are tough and the job search takes a lot of effort. That's just the unfortunate reality of the market right now, and is going to be the same at just about every school.

Ultimately, my advice is to know what kind of job you want before you make your decision, and be ready to make sacrifices to achieve your goal. Attending Hastings, however, won't hold you back from anything.

I'll provide my OCI experience: I came in wanting to do Biglaw IP and with an EE degree. Top 5%, journal, moot court, mid-sized firm 1L summer. I interviewed with over 20 firms at OCI, and received callbacks from all but 3. Out of the 10 callbacks I accepted, I received 7 offers, 1 rejection, and withdrew from 2 after accepting a summer position.

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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Aqualibrium » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:
I'll provide my OCI experience: I came in wanting to do Biglaw IP and with an EE degree. Top 5%, journal, moot court, mid-sized firm 1L summer. I interviewed with over 20 firms at OCI, and received callbacks from all but 3. Out of the 10 callbacks I accepted, I received 7 offers, 1 rejection, and withdrew from 2 after accepting a summer position.

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General Tso
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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby General Tso » Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:18 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
I'll provide my OCI experience: I came in wanting to do Biglaw IP and with an EE degree. Top 5%, journal, moot court, mid-sized firm 1L summer. I interviewed with over 20 firms at OCI, and received callbacks from all but 3. Out of the 10 callbacks I accepted, I received 7 offers, 1 rejection, and withdrew from 2 after accepting a summer position.


Yeah top 10% at Hastings is going to be fairly job secure. 15-33%, not so much.

But anyway it is good to hear a success story.

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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:32 pm

i'm a top 10 overall student at hastings and i struck out at OCI. things are fucked out there.

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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Aqualibrium » Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:i'm a top 10 overall student at hastings and i struck out at OCI. things are fucked out there.



As much as I hate that for you, I think it's important to make you aware that the problem is most likely not Hastings...

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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby 20160810 » Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:22 am

Aqualibrium wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:i'm a top 10 overall student at hastings and i struck out at OCI. things are fucked out there.



As much as I hate that for you, I think it's important to make you aware that the problem is most likely not Hastings...

Thanks for your help. I'm sure this guy hadn't considered until right this minute that his interview skills could be improved. Super constructive commentary, broheim!

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Re: Hastings' Job Prospects

Postby Aqualibrium » Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:30 am

SBL wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:i'm a top 10 overall student at hastings and i struck out at OCI. things are fucked out there.



As much as I hate that for you, I think it's important to make you aware that the problem is most likely not Hastings...


Thanks for your help. I'm sure this guy hadn't considered until right this minute that his interview skills could be improved. Super constructive commentary, broheim!



Well he/she said "things are fucked up here," not "I really fucked up," or "I wish I would have changed xyz sooner." "Things are fucked up here" just makes it seem like he/she thought Hastings itself was the primary issue.

As far as constructive advice goes,I'm not sure what you can say to a person in this situation at this stage of the game. The only thing I can think of is make sure you get some great recommendations for clerkships/start targeting specific ones. Like I said, I feel for this person, wish he or she would have figured it out sooner.




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