Top Law Schools

Are they on par with schools like BU, BC, Fordham, GWU, WUSTL, USC, et cetera? I’ve seen them compared on here to UMN, Wisconsin and Iowa, but the stats seem to suggest they’re more on par with the former.

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And the amount actually reporting salary is fairly impressive…

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Thoughts?

Saw your original thread about this. As a 1L, I don't have much firsthand experience in looking for employment yet. I can tell you a few things, though:

1. I have some connections to state government in Illinois, Wisconsin, and Indiana and the people I know have said that Illinois graduates are consistently more ready for significant work earlier than their counterparts from WI, IN, MN and IA.

2. I have family friends who are partners at large firms (Jenner) in Chicago who say that they value Illinois graduates more than they value graduates of the other schools you've listed. I spoke to them about this over the summer when I made my choice to attend Illinois over IN, WI, MN, WUSTL, and BC. That's not to say that schools like WUSTL and BC don't place on par with Illinois, but given that I am happy to stay in the midwest it wasn't worth paying a much higher amount for WUSTL since, according to everyone I talked to, I'd graduate with identical job prospects.

3. From talking to 2 and 3 Ls at Illinois, I'd be comfortable saying that the top third are able to do whatever they want. What I mean by that is this: They have options. They may not get a job at the specific firm they wanted, but they are generaly capable of getting 100k plus jobs if they want them. That "if they want them" is the key: Many of the people I talked to who are in the top third do not have huge amounts of debt (Illinois gives out a lot of scholarships) and are happy to go into public interest work. The high paying jobs don't then trickle down to the rest of the class, of course: they're given to other students at other schools. The point I'm making is it seems that people nearer to the top of the class at Illinois have some element of choice in their employment decisions. This is a luxury that, according to the people I talked to in the Chicago legal market and assorted state government positions, is not afforded to all of the other schools you mentioned.

I hope this helps, at least a little bit.

blurbz wrote: 3. From talking to 2 and 3 Ls at Illinois, I'd be comfortable saying that the top third are able to do whatever they want.

Well, I'm not going to get into a pissing match but I'll clarify that statement again:

If they know they want to work in a specific field or in a specific region, by and large they have that choice.

Like I said (but you didn't quote...) They may not have SPECIFIC choice, but they do have choice.

A couple years ago, I was considering going to Univerity of Illinois for law school as I'm from the midwest. I ultimately decided on Boston University, and I'm glad I did. However, I know several people and one family member who went to law school there.

U of I is a good school, but it's a good school for where it's at. I think you guys overestimate it a bit. However, since you guys are students (or prospective students) there, it's natural. Regardless of what you may hope, U of I is a VERY regional school. I don't know that many people (although I'm sure there are a few) who come from the coasts to go to U of I. This is a big deal, because there likely aren't that many graduates who therefore go back and try to find jobs back in New York, California, or other big coastal cities. All of the graduates I know from U of I have gone to secondary markets like St. Louis and other smaller markets. Although I'm sure there are a few that go to Chicago.

However, at schools like BU, GW, Fordham, and USC a large percentage are from California, New York, DC, etc. We at BU probably maybe only have a tiny group of Midwestern folk like me. Whereas, at U of I, I would say it's a large percentage (I'm sure you'll say this isn't the case, but I know a lot of people there, and most of them are from the midwest).

It's a good school, but I think for biglaw prospects, or to break into a bigger market, there are better schools. Uof I is compared to UMN, Wisconsin, and Iowa for a reason. The midwest law schools tend to have their own class of where they place. Becuase usually most of the students are midwest based, so they wouldn't want to leave the midwest anyways. Which limits the potential markets for future graduates. However, this could also be a good thing. I think employment-wise, midwest schools might have a better shot at something guaranteed, b/c they don't always have their heart set on NY, CA, or DC.

kams wrote:A couple years ago, I was considering going to Univerity of Illinois for law school as I'm from the midwest. I ultimately decided on Boston University, and I'm glad I did. However, I know several people and one family member who went to law school there.

U of I is a good school, but it's a good school for where it's at. I think you guys overestimate it a bit. However, since you guys are students (or prospective students) there, it's natural. Regardless of what you may hope, U of I is a VERY regional school. I don't know that many people (although I'm sure there are a few) who come from the coasts to go to U of I. This is a big deal, because there likely aren't that many graduates who therefore go back and try to find jobs back in New York, California, or other big coastal cities. All of the graduates I know from U of I have gone to secondary markets like St. Louis and other smaller markets. Although I'm sure there are a few that go to Chicago.

However, at schools like BU, GW, Fordham, and USC a large percentage are from California, New York, DC, etc. We at BU probably maybe only have a tiny group of Midwestern folk like me. Whereas, at U of I, I would say it's a large percentage (I'm sure you'll say this isn't the case, but I know a lot of people there, and most of them are from the midwest).

It's a good school, but I think for biglaw prospects, or to break into a bigger market, there are better schools. Uof I is compared to UMN, Wisconsin, and Iowa for a reason. The midwest law schools tend to have their own class of where they place. Becuase usually most of the students are midwest based, so they wouldn't want to leave the midwest anyways. Which limits the potential markets for future graduates. However, this could also be a good thing. I think employment-wise, midwest schools might have a better shot at something guaranteed, b/c they don't always have their heart set on NY, CA, or DC.

I would say U of I is a step above UMN, Wisconsin, and Iowa if your targeted market is Chicago, which may be why people place it above them overall. While Chicago is no DC/LA/NY, it is still the 3rd largest US city and a larger market than many of the regional markets the previous three schools may feed into (Minneapolis, for example). For Chicago, the 2Ls and 3Ls I know there seem to all be doing very well in terms of employment prospects - but I assume most of my friends are in the top 40% or so. I've seen some of them snag CA SAs as well, so it's not totally out of the question but its definitely not wise to come to Illinois knowing you want CA or bust.

blurbz wrote:Saw your original thread about this. As a 1L, I don't have much firsthand experience in looking for employment yet. I can tell you a few things, though:

1. I have some connections to state government in Illinois, Wisconsin, and Indiana and the people I know have said that Illinois graduates are consistently more ready for significant work earlier than their counterparts from WI, IN, MN and IA.

2. I have family friends who are partners at large firms (Jenner) in Chicago who say that they value Illinois graduates more than they value graduates of the other schools you've listed. I spoke to them about this over the summer when I made my choice to attend Illinois over IN, WI, MN, WUSTL, and BC. That's not to say that schools like WUSTL and BC don't place on par with Illinois, but given that I am happy to stay in the midwest it wasn't worth paying a much higher amount for WUSTL since, according to everyone I talked to, I'd graduate with identical job prospects.

3. From talking to 2 and 3 Ls at Illinois, I'd be comfortable saying that the top third are able to do whatever they want. What I mean by that is this: They have options. They may not get a job at the specific firm they wanted, but they are generaly capable of getting 100k plus jobs if they want them. That "if they want them" is the key: Many of the people I talked to who are in the top third do not have huge amounts of debt (Illinois gives out a lot of scholarships) and are happy to go into public interest work. The high paying jobs don't then trickle down to the rest of the class, of course: they're given to other students at other schools. The point I'm making is it seems that people nearer to the top of the class at Illinois have some element of choice in their employment decisions. This is a luxury that, according to the people I talked to in the Chicago legal market and assorted state government positions, is not afforded to all of the other schools you mentioned.

I hope this helps, at least a little bit.

Thanks for all your advice! This is what I wanted to know.

kams wrote:A couple years ago, I was considering going to Univerity of Illinois for law school as I'm from the midwest. I ultimately decided on Boston University, and I'm glad I did. However, I know several people and one family member who went to law school there.

U of I is a good school, but it's a good school for where it's at. I think you guys overestimate it a bit. However, since you guys are students (or prospective students) there, it's natural. Regardless of what you may hope, U of I is a VERY regional school. I don't know that many people (although I'm sure there are a few) who come from the coasts to go to U of I. This is a big deal, because there likely aren't that many graduates who therefore go back and try to find jobs back in New York, California, or other big coastal cities. All of the graduates I know from U of I have gone to secondary markets like St. Louis and other smaller markets. Although I'm sure there are a few that go to Chicago.

However, at schools like BU, GW, Fordham, and USC a large percentage are from California, New York, DC, etc. We at BU probably maybe only have a tiny group of Midwestern folk like me. Whereas, at U of I, I would say it's a large percentage (I'm sure you'll say this isn't the case, but I know a lot of people there, and most of them are from the midwest).

It's a good school, but I think for biglaw prospects, or to break into a bigger market, there are better schools. Uof I is compared to UMN, Wisconsin, and Iowa for a reason. The midwest law schools tend to have their own class of where they place. Becuase usually most of the students are midwest based, so they wouldn't want to leave the midwest anyways. Which limits the potential markets for future graduates. However, this could also be a good thing. I think employment-wise, midwest schools might have a better shot at something guaranteed, b/c they don't always have their heart set on NY, CA, or DC.

I won't deny that there are better schools for getting BigLaw (T17, obviously), but are BU, GW, Fordham, etc really better? As the links I posted show, I'm not really sure...

Top third at Illinois can do whatever they want because they don't have to worry about time consuming employment.

Rory1987 wrote:

I won't deny that there are better schools for getting BigLaw (T17, obviously), but are BU, GW, Fordham, etc really better? As the links I posted show, I'm not really sure...

Yes, but not because they're better schools, but because BU/BC/GW/Fordham have much easier access to NYC - which is basically the only place T30 students in the top 1/3rd can get jobs. For firms, UIUC feeds into Chicago, while many Northwestern students are flocking to NYC for work. Its not a great situation.

Blindmelon wrote:

Rory1987 wrote:

I won't deny that there are better schools for getting BigLaw (T17, obviously), but are BU, GW, Fordham, etc really better? As the links I posted show, I'm not really sure...

Yes, but not because they're better schools, but because BU/BC/GW/Fordham have much easier access to NYC - which is basically the only place T30 students in the top 1/3rd can get jobs. For firms, UIUC feeds into Chicago, while many Northwestern students are flocking to NYC for work. Its not a great situation.

A very large portion of NU grads stay in Chicago. If there is a movement of NU to NYC this year it is only because Chicago hiring was terrible, aka, no school was sending grads here.

Anonymous User wrote:

Blindmelon wrote:

Rory1987 wrote:

I won't deny that there are better schools for getting BigLaw (T17, obviously), but are BU, GW, Fordham, etc really better? As the links I posted show, I'm not really sure...

Yes, but not because they're better schools, but because BU/BC/GW/Fordham have much easier access to NYC - which is basically the only place T30 students in the top 1/3rd can get jobs. For firms, UIUC feeds into Chicago, while many Northwestern students are flocking to NYC for work. Its not a great situation.

A very large portion of NU grads stay in Chicago. If there is a movement of NU to NYC this year it is only because Chicago hiring was terrible, aka, no school was sending grads here.

Wasn't that exactly his point?

Though I think Chicago wasn't as much of a shitshow as it looked like in early september.

Desert Fox wrote:Top third at Illinois can do whatever they want because they don't have to worry about time consuming employment.

+1

Blindmelon wrote:

Rory1987 wrote:

I won't deny that there are better schools for getting BigLaw (T17, obviously), but are BU, GW, Fordham, etc really better? As the links I posted show, I'm not really sure...

Yes, but not because they're better schools, but because BU/BC/GW/Fordham have much easier access to NYC - which is basically the only place T30 students in the top 1/3rd can get jobs. For firms, UIUC feeds into Chicago, while many Northwestern students are flocking to NYC for work. Its not a great situation.

Exactly. If you just pop through some biglaw firms online, I doubt you'll really find that many UofI alums. Whereas, I'm sure you'd find tons of Fordham/BU/GW alums. I don't even know how many New York firms recruit out of Illinois. Might just check out the OCI list.

Like I said before, I think one has more options out of a BU/BC/GW type school if one has ties somewhere. I knowquite a few people along with myself who got big firm offers in NY and Boston. But I also kind of wanted to come home, and I got a couple offers from the big firms in the midwest too. Therefore, I'm a bit confused as to what blurbz was saying about BU/BC/GW students not having options. Although, I agree it might be hard for someone from one of those schools to go to the midwest without any ties. Maybe that's what he/she meant.

But hey, it looks like you've got your heart set on University of Illinois. It's a good midwestern school, and if your aim is to stay in the midwest (nothing wrong with that. I miss home every day) then I'm sure you'll find a decent paying job as long as you do very well.

kams wrote:

Blindmelon wrote:

Rory1987 wrote:

I won't deny that there are better schools for getting BigLaw (T17, obviously), but are BU, GW, Fordham, etc really better? As the links I posted show, I'm not really sure...

Yes, but not because they're better schools, but because BU/BC/GW/Fordham have much easier access to NYC - which is basically the only place T30 students in the top 1/3rd can get jobs. For firms, UIUC feeds into Chicago, while many Northwestern students are flocking to NYC for work. Its not a great situation.

Exactly. If you just pop through some biglaw firms online, I doubt you'll really find that many UofI alums. Whereas, I'm sure you'd find tons of Fordham/BU/GW alums. I don't even know how many New York firms recruit out of Illinois. Might just check out the OCI list.

Like I said before, I think one has more options out of a BU/BC/GW type school if one has ties somewhere. I knowquite a few people along with myself who got big firm offers in NY and Boston. But I also kind of wanted to come home, and I got a couple offers from the big firms in the midwest too. Therefore, I'm a bit confused as to what blurbz was saying about BU/BC/GW students not having options. Although, I agree it might be hard for someone from one of those schools to go to the midwest without any ties. Maybe that's what he/she meant.

But hey, it looks like you've got your heart set on University of Illinois. It's a good midwestern school, and if your aim is to stay in the midwest (nothing wrong with that. I miss home every day) then I'm sure you'll find a decent paying job as long as you do very well.

Illinois is a small school that pretty much just places in Chicago.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the OP never said that UIUC is more "national" or "mobile" than BU, GWU, Fordham, etc; he pondered whether it's job prospects are as good. Quite frankly, from the data and links he posted in regards to employment, it does seem to be more on par with them than the Wisconsins and Minnesotas of the world.

FreddyBigShot wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but the OP never said that UIUC is more "national" or "mobile" than BU, GWU, Fordham, etc; he pondered whether it's job prospects are as good. Quite frankly, from the data and links he posted in regards to employment, it does seem to be more on par with them than the Wisconsins and Minnesotas of the world.

Read the rest of the posts. Mobility to NYC = job prospects ITE.

Desert Fox wrote:Top third at Illinois can do whatever they want because they don't have to worry about time consuming employment.

LOL

Blindmelon wrote:

FreddyBigShot wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but the OP never said that UIUC is more "national" or "mobile" than BU, GWU, Fordham, etc; he pondered whether it's job prospects are as good. Quite frankly, from the data and links he posted in regards to employment, it does seem to be more on par with them than the Wisconsins and Minnesotas of the world.

Read the rest of the posts. Mobility to NYC = job prospects ITE.

Ah, gotcha. But is NYC really that much better than anywhere else? Plus, doesn't *everyone* and their mother want to go there?

FreddyBigShot wrote:

Blindmelon wrote:

FreddyBigShot wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but the OP never said that UIUC is more "national" or "mobile" than BU, GWU, Fordham, etc; he pondered whether it's job prospects are as good. Quite frankly, from the data and links he posted in regards to employment, it does seem to be more on par with them than the Wisconsins and Minnesotas of the world.

Read the rest of the posts. Mobility to NYC = job prospects ITE.

Ah, gotcha. But is NYC really that much better than anywhere else? Plus, doesn't *everyone* and their mother want to go there?

This is what I'm thinking. It seems like New York would be saturated after a few years of top law students from around the country looking for work there.

Is it possible the New York firms are actually growing ITE compared to other markets? That seems unlikely, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

This is what I'm thinking. It seems like New York would be saturated after a few years of top law students from around the country looking for work there.

Is it possible the New York firms are actually growing ITE compared to other markets? That seems unlikely, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Best case scenario:

By the time NYC is saturated other markets are again expanding, counteracting the flight to NYC safety.

Worst case scenario:

NYC positions become harder to attain, law school loses what miniscule value it presently possesses

bump

Illinois is absolutely on par with the first group. Let's be real.

It depends on what you would define as "on par."

Ranking-wise? yes. Access to firms in the midwest? Definitely, if not more so. Name outside the midwest? probably not. Recruitment from biglaw firms in NY, CA, DC, etc.? NO

Illinois has a law school?